Is anybody here considering the '15 AMG C-63 ?

[4PIPE]

doesn't look angry enough to me tbh

[bimmerj]

Originally Posted by 4PIPE

doesn't look angry enough to me tbh

From a beak driver. Kidding you.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by 4PIPE

doesn't look angry enough to me tbh

Angry enough? Its a car.

[03///m3]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

It will actually have an upgraded version of the MCT (AMG's multi-clutch transmission). Unlike a conventional automatic transmission, there is no torque converter. Instead, there is a wet start-up clutch. The old MCT was capable of 100-millisecond shifts. The new version should be even quicker.

The C63 has not had a conventional automatic transmission since 2011.

I wonder why MB put the MCT in the new C63 when the AMG 45 cars and the AMG GT both have DCT's.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by swanson

Angry enough? Its a car.

styling is subjective, of course.

I don't think the looks are aggressive enough either, but that's just my take.

[ixse]

Originally Posted by 03///m3

I wonder why MB put the MCT in the new C63 when the AMG 45 cars and the AMG GT both have DCT's.

Cla45 dct is a joke.. Its the worst dct I've ever tried. Even the owners agree that their mct is better. Now dct in amg gt is a completely different. Its not the in house dct like one in cla45, but they simply put in a off the shelf dct from outside source (which is why all the journalists are luving it).

[ASAP]

The questions that I have for a Benz are always the same...

1) Is the styling for a 60+ retiree?
2) Is the autobox remotely close to a DCT?
3) Can it handle like a BMW and feel light on its feet?

Usually number 1 kills the whole thing for me with Mbenz... BMW exterior styling imho is top notch and I can say that most of their sport pack cars look cool... I dare not say that about Benzes and especially not Audis which to me are the definition of mundane.

[03///m3]

Originally Posted by ixse

Cla45 dct is a joke.. Its the worst dct I've ever tried. Even the owners agree that their mct is better. Now dct in amg gt is a completely different. Its not the in house dct like one in cla45, but they simply put in a off the shelf dct from outside source (which is why all the journalists are luving it).

So the AMG 45 cars have an in house DCT that benz created and the AMG GT is sourced from another gearbox manufacturer? Is it Getrag? Interesting... i didn't know that.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by ASAP

3) Can it handle like a BMW and feel light on its feet?

Styling is highly subjective and varies drastically from person to person. If you don't like the way something looks, by all means do not even consider it.

Personally, I think the new Mercedes interiors are among the best in the industry. Reviews of the W205 C-Class are unanimous in their determination that the C-Class now has the best interior in the segment (compared to the F30 3-Series, Audi A4/S4, Cadillac ATS, Lexus IS, etc.). The quality of the materials and the fit and finish are both top notch.

W205 C63 interior:



Regarding #3, I would say unequivocally yes. The LCI W204 C63 (8:01) was 4 seconds faster around the 'ring than the E9X M3 (8:05).

Several reviewers (Chris Harris included) have raved about the steering feel of the LCI W204 C63. In 2012, AMG really started focusing on making all of its cars more dynamic and well-rounded. That is one of the reasons why the E63 S 4MATIC has taken down the F10 M5 in several comparisons.

The new AMG GT, which will share its motor and electronic differential (among other things) with the new W205 C63, has been receiving absolutely rave reviews.

Chris Harris' take:

https://grrc.goodwood.com/road/drive...ercedes-amg-gt

Car and Driver's take:

http://www.caranddriver.com/mercedes-amg/gt-gt-s

Automobile Magazine's take:

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...g-gt-s-review/

"The steering is the best of any electrically assisted system today, Porsche absolutely included."

I think very, very highly of the new M3/M4. I've driven each variant several times. The motor is outstanding and the transmission is even better. I applaud BMW M for finally putting proper standard brakes on the M3/M4 The steering, while very precise, feels a bit artificial in S+. I wish there was a bit more feedback, too.

That said, I have been equally impressed by what AMG has been doing the last several years. I also look forward to driving the Cadillac ATS-V as the standard ATS (which I have driven twice) has a phenomenal chassis (it felt way more composed and substantially "sportier" than my old F30 M Sport 335i).

I would encourage people to drive the cars they're commenting about before making any definitive conclusions.

[ixse]

Originally Posted by 03///m3

So the AMG 45 cars have an in house DCT that benz created and the AMG GT is sourced from another gearbox manufacturer? Is it Getrag? Interesting... i didn't know that.

Yup. All in the name of saving cost. Hope more of amg lineup can get same dct in amg gt

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by ixse

Yup. All in the name of saving cost. Hope more of amg lineup can get same dct in amg gt

The DCT in the AMG GT has been praised heavily.

Lost in all this discussion is the fact that the old MCT is still a pretty darn good transmission. 100-millisecond shifts aren't slow. The newest version will be even quicker.

Prior to the launch of the GT, I would've said the top 3 non-manual transmissions on the market were, in order: 1) Porsche PDK; 2) BMW M-DCT (Getrag); 3) ZF 8-Speed Sport Auto. Audi's DSG deserves to be in that conversation.

Personally, I've been happy with my MCT. The automatic modes are outstanding (smooth, no surging or bucking). Downshifts in M mode are outstanding but upshifts could be quicker and more consistent.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Styling is highly subjective and varies drastically from person to person. If you don't like the way something looks, by all means do not even consider it.

Personally, I think the new Mercedes interiors are among the best in the industry. Reviews of the W205 C-Class are unanimous in their determination that the C-Class now has the best interior in the segment (compared to the F30 3-Series, Audi A4/S4, Cadillac ATS, Lexus IS, etc.). The quality of the materials and the fit and finish are both top notch.

W205 C63 interior:



Regarding #3, I would say unequivocally yes. The LCI W204 C63 (8:01) was 4 seconds faster around the 'ring than the E9X M3 (8:05).

Several reviewers (Chris Harris included) have raved about the steering feel of the LCI W204 C63. In 2012, AMG really started focusing on making all of its cars more dynamic and well-rounded. That is one of the reasons why the E63 S 4MATIC has taken down the F10 M5 in several comparisons.

The new AMG GT, which will share its motor and electronic differential (among other things) with the new W205 C63, has been receiving absolutely rave reviews.

Chris Harris' take:

https://grrc.goodwood.com/road/drive...ercedes-amg-gt

Car and Driver's take:

http://www.caranddriver.com/mercedes-amg/gt-gt-s

Automobile Magazine's take:

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...g-gt-s-review/

"The steering is the best of any electrically assisted system today, Porsche absolutely included."

I think very, very highly of the new M3/M4. I've driven each variant several times. The motor is outstanding and the transmission is even better. I applaud BMW M for finally putting proper standard brakes on the M3/M4 The steering, while very precise, feels a bit artificial in S+. I wish there was a bit more feedback, too.

That said, I have been equally impressed by what AMG has been doing the last several years. I also look forward to driving the Cadillac ATS-V as the standard ATS (which I have driven twice) has a phenomenal chassis (it felt way more composed and substantially "sportier" than my old F30 M Sport 335i).

I would encourage people to drive the cars they're commenting about before making any definitive conclusions.

I agree these are very valid statements... on the performance aspect, one cant speak until numbers come out or until one drives one. I have sat in the new c class and I like it but not as much as the bmw / interior layout. I am one of those that if I don't fall in love with the styling of the car... the other aspects typically wont make up for it.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

The DCT in the AMG GT has been praised heavily.

Lost in all this discussion is the fact that the old MCT is still a pretty darn good transmission. 100-millisecond shifts aren't slow. The newest version will be even quicker.

Prior to the launch of the GT, I would've said the top 3 non-manual transmissions on the market were, in order: 1) Porsche PDK; 2) BMW M-DCT (Getrag); 3) ZF 8-Speed Sport Auto. Audi's DSG deserves to be in that conversation.

Personally, I've been happy with my MCT. The automatic modes are outstanding (smooth, no surging or bucking). Downshifts in M mode are outstanding but upshifts could be quicker and more consistent.

I hope you're right. the MCT experience I had was not good. I think Gthal had a later c63 coupe model and it was not great either.

1. gear changes were fast, but sometimes there was a delay between the command and the actual shift.

2. only way to change 2 gears quickly was to from 7 - 5, and 6-4. had to also step on the gas in order to do this. ie. the car won't do it if my foot is on the brake. if i wanted to change from 4-2 it won't do it until one command is taken then have to click it again.

3. the car will downshift to the lowest gear if the downshit paddle is held, but that would leave the computer tell me what gear it is instead of me choosing it.

I hope amg outsources their trannies to 3rd parties, the regular 7 speed auto sucks too. It shifts way too early even in S mode. speaking from my experiences in 2010 E350 and 2012 GLK350. I have to paddle shift it manually to get any decent passing power.

amg's archilles heel continues to be the tranny imho.

I am utterly impressed so far with the DCT.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Styling is highly subjective and varies drastically from person to person. If you don't like the way something looks, by all means do not even consider it.

Personally, I think the new Mercedes interiors are among the best in the industry. Reviews of the W205 C-Class are unanimous in their determination that the C-Class now has the best interior in the segment (compared to the F30 3-Series, Audi A4/S4, Cadillac ATS, Lexus IS, etc.). The quality of the materials and the fit and finish are both top notch.

I agree that the fit and finish on MB is definitely #1.

[BPe90M3]

Test drove a 2012 C63 when I was looking at cars before I got my e92 M3. Always liked the way the C63 looked but not as much as the M. I test drove the e92 first... and when I drove the C63, I was extremely unimpressed. Hated the trans, the handling was sloppier than the M and I just did not feel a connection to the car like I did in the M. Not for nothing, but the 2015 C63 is hideous to me. Looks very soft. Im sure its blistering fast in a straight line but thats not my forte.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I hope you're right. the MCT experience I had was not good. I think Gthal had a later c63 coupe model and it was not great either.

1. gear changes were fast, but sometimes there was a delay between the command and the actual shift.

2. only way to change 2 gears quickly was to from 7 - 5, and 6-4. had to also step on the gas in order to do this. ie. the car won't do it if my foot is on the brake. if i wanted to change from 4-2 it won't do it until one command is taken then have to click it again.

3. the car will downshift to the lowest gear if the downshit paddle is held, but that would leave the computer tell me what gear it is instead of me choosing it.

I hope amg outsources their trannies to 3rd parties, the regular 7 speed auto sucks too. It shifts way too early even in S mode. speaking from my experiences in 2010 E350 and 2012 GLK350. I have to paddle shift it manually to get any decent passing power.

amg's archilles heel continues to be the tranny imho.

I am utterly impressed so far with the DCT.

Most people I know who have driven the car have echoed these statements.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I hope you're right. the MCT experience I had was not good. I think Gthal had a later c63 coupe model and it was not great either.

1. gear changes were fast, but sometimes there was a delay between the command and the actual shift.

2. only way to change 2 gears quickly was to from 7 - 5, and 6-4. had to also step on the gas in order to do this. ie. the car won't do it if my foot is on the brake. if i wanted to change from 4-2 it won't do it until one command is taken then have to click it again.

3. the car will downshift to the lowest gear if the downshit paddle is held, but that would leave the computer tell me what gear it is instead of me choosing it.

I hope amg outsources their trannies to 3rd parties, the regular 7 speed auto sucks too. It shifts way too early even in S mode. speaking from my experiences in 2010 E350 and 2012 GLK350. I have to paddle shift it manually to get any decent passing power.

amg's archilles heel continues to be the tranny imho.

I am utterly impressed so far with the DCT.

What year was your C63?

If it was an '08, '09, '10, or '11 model, you had the automatic transmission with torque converter, not the MCT.

The MCT did not debut until '12 (which is when the C63 underwent its LCI/facelift).

[bimmerj]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I hope you're right. the MCT experience I had was not good. I think Gthal had a later c63 coupe model and it was not great either.

1. gear changes were fast, but sometimes there was a delay between the command and the actual shift.

2. only way to change 2 gears quickly was to from 7 - 5, and 6-4. had to also step on the gas in order to do this. ie. the car won't do it if my foot is on the brake. if i wanted to change from 4-2 it won't do it until one command is taken then have to click it again.

3. the car will downshift to the lowest gear if the downshit paddle is held, but that would leave the computer tell me what gear it is instead of me choosing it.

I hope amg outsources their trannies to 3rd parties, the regular 7 speed auto sucks too. It shifts way too early even in S mode. speaking from my experiences in 2010 E350 and 2012 GLK350. I have to paddle shift it manually to get any decent passing power.

amg's archilles heel continues to be the tranny imho.

I am utterly impressed so far with the DCT.

The MCT is a great transmission around the city and on the drag strip. It will not perform well if you are tracking the car. In S+, the car never shifts until the redline. Passing is always a breeze regardless of the gear you're in.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by bimmerj

The MCT is a great transmission around the city and on the drag strip. It will not perform well if you are tracking the car. In S+, the car never shifts until the redline. Passing is always a breeze regardless of the gear you're in.

I agree.

I had no real issue with the MCT on the street. It was very fast shifting and relatively responsive. It did feel a bit isolated from the car compared to the DCT in the M3... like there was a buffer between me, the transmission and the engine whereas the DCT felt more mechanically connected. That's not bad, necessarily, but it "felt" more like a traditional auto (as it is closer to a traditional auto than a DCT notwithstanding the wet clutch) whereas the DCT "felt" and acted more like a manual.

The only time I had a real issue with the MCT was at the track where multi gear downshifts were slow and even single gear downshifts weren't reliable. Sometimes the car did it when I wanted, sometimes there was a delay. It also went into limp mode within 5 laps. As much as I loved the C63 for the street, I would not buy one to track it... at least the last gen car.

If you aren't tracking the car, the MCT vs DCT differential isn't significant enough to matter IMO. If you intend to take the car to a road course on a regular basis then it is a bigger issue IMO.

Other than the transmission in a track environment, the C63 was fantastic and very enjoyable. A more visceral experience than the E92 M3 by a margin IMO and a great car.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

What year was your C63?

If it was an '08, '09, '10, or '11 model, you had the automatic transmission with torque converter, not the MCT.

The MCT did not debut until '12 (which is when the C63 underwent its LCI/facelift).

Looked into it and you are right-
Wiki:
"Beginning in 2011, the C63 AMG includes the AMG SPEEDSHIFT MCT transmission from SL 63 AMG, replacing the 7G-Tronic automatic transmission with AMG SpeedShift."

disregard my comments!

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Looked into it and you are right-
Wiki:
"Beginning in 2011, the C63 AMG includes the AMG SPEEDSHIFT MCT transmission from SL 63 AMG, replacing the 7G-Tronic automatic transmission with AMG SpeedShift."

disregard my comments!

No worries my friend. The LCI/facelift models started to roll out in late 2011 in Europe. North America did not receive LCI C63s with the MCT until '12.

Unlike BMW, Mercedes gets very aggressive with its facelifts. The LCI C63 got quite a few major improvements, including the MCT and an entirely revamped suspensions.

Another example is the current W212 E-Class. Most think that the current E63 S 4MATIC is an entirely new E-Class (similar to the F10 M5). In reality, the W212 E-Class is nearing the end of its production run.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by gthal

I agree.

I had no real issue with the MCT on the street. It was very fast shifting and relatively responsive. It did feel a bit isolated from the car compared to the DCT in the M3... like there was a buffer between me, the transmission and the engine whereas the DCT felt more mechanically connected. That's not bad, necessarily, but it "felt" more like a traditional auto (as it is closer to a traditional auto than a DCT notwithstanding the wet clutch) whereas the DCT "felt" and acted more like a manual.

The only time I had a real issue with the MCT was at the track where multi gear downshifts were slow and even single gear downshifts weren't reliable. Sometimes the car did it when I wanted, sometimes there was a delay. It also went into limp mode within 5 laps. As much as I loved the C63 for the street, I would not buy one to track it... at least the last gen car.

If you aren't tracking the car, the MCT vs DCT differential isn't significant enough to matter IMO. If you intend to take the car to a road course on a regular basis then it is a bigger issue IMO.

Other than the transmission in a track environment, the C63 was fantastic and very enjoyable. A more visceral experience than the E92 M3 by a margin IMO and a great car.

Completely agree with this assessment. Honest, accurate, and thorough. Well said.