M3 vs RS3 vs Civic Type R track battle

[RedGT3RS]

Originally Posted by Nothing

It really depends on the track you take it to. And it helps if you keep the car from sliding around. The Civic is ugly. It's a horrid shape that they stuck with and then added the ugly aero bits to it to make it functional. The Focus RS on the other hand is a good looking car that will be worthy of the praise it will get very soon. It will be the new king of hot hatches.

And you know for sure the Focus RS would be better?

People always make fun of Hondas but they are forgetting they do KNOW how to make performance cars. Ex integra type R's, S2000's, NSX

[ticamihai2003]

The type r is also quicker compared to the m4 on Nordschleife by 2 seconds

[secretariat]

2 minutes of donuts and still lost to the donkey, lol

[JenWil]

To each their own. My hubby has a 1992 Honda Civic that he has poured a lot or work into. He finally has it "done" and it only took him 10 years. He took his time working the car up to get it to the specs he wanted it as a track car. It's gutted....only has a driver seat and a passenger seat that gets removed at track if he has someone ride with him there. No creature comforts (no ac, power steering, etc). At certain tracks, he goes around Porsches, Corvettes, etc. (don't ask me what kind of Porsches or Corvettes, I never pay that much attention to his videos). Those cars could have everything still in them or the driver might no be quite so experienced. My husband is very experienced on track and that could be all he needs to be able to pass those cars.

Kudos to Honda if their car is able to pass M3/4s or other competitors. Would I buy one for myself? No. After getting into my M3 (first BMW I've owned), I'm 100% certain I wouldn't buy another Honda. The quality of everything in the interior is just so much better than the Acura TL I had. I learned what real leather was like when I got into my M3 The BMW is just better than any car I've ever driven or owned before....granted it should be for the price we paid. Will we end up getting one of these Civics? If my husband has his way....yes. He grew up drag racing Mustangs and then moved into the tuner world where he has built tons of track engines for others. He's a Honda guy through and through.

[NYAWE60]

Originally Posted by ForTehNguyen

I'll join:
CTR Ring time - 7:50
M4 Ring time - 7:52

So much butthurt here, its hysterical. Look, the reality is even if he would've eliminated one drift, that would've reduced the lap time by enough to beat the CTR. We all KNOW that very well. In the grand scheme of things though, the fact that a Civic can legitimately be compared to an M3 is HUGE. And lets be fair here, even if the M3 beat out the CTR, it wouldn't have been by a significant margin.

What everyone here is not admitting or noticing is that he is in no way trying to tear down the reputation of the M3, in fact he praises it. All he's doing is giving tons of credibility to the Civic and for what its worth, it deserves it.

If I had to choose between the two, I'd be in the M3 all day, no questions about it. The Civic however is a well developed and focused product and I tip my hat to Honda for building such a wonderful machine, especially since they've been so criticized in the past 5-10 years for just putting out appliances. Too bad we won't be getting the hot hatch version from Europe, I saw the Coupe Type R concept at the NYIAS and I felt it was lackluster by comparison to its European counterpart. This segment is heating up big time, the Focus RS is coming soon and that wicked little car has a legit drift mode. Cars like that will only make comparisons like this more interesting.

When it comes to performance cars, we're in a changed world people, accept it. We now have tons of FI cars and barely any with large displacement NA motors. We have FWD cars besting track times put out by last generation Porsche's and BMW's (and even current ones for that matter). American companies like GM and Dodge are putting out cars like the Z06 and Viper that have world class performance. Embrace it, all that will happen is there will be something for everyone and being a young dad and seasoned professional that can buy either of these cars, I'm all for it.

[kevinlevrone]

Sutcliffe is my favorite car reviewer and test driver and it will remain like such even if the M3 loses to the most ugly Civic of all times.

[positiveions]

It's all about the weight. How about we compare the upcoming M2 to those two.

[F80NJM3]

Why is an M3 being compared to a civic??? :

[PeruM3]

Why so much hate against the CTR? The video is just highlighting that the CTR is fast. And it is! Faster than an M3 on XYZ conditions which are not optimal but so many people are taking this too seriously. This doesn't mean that you should buy a CTR over an M3.... but maybe thing about it. Hahahaha.

[derpimpkar]

at this point, I really want to see Kia release a Soul Type R with a 7:51 lap just to see the e-thugging and forumcraft blow up so much it makes it to reddit's front page.

[DS_BMW]

Originally Posted by ronjon400

We see in the video the Audi and the BMW doing the lap. Where exactly was the footage of the civic going around?

Here

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by derpimpkar

at this point, I really want to see Kia release a Soul Type R with a 7:51 lap just to see the e-thugging and forumcraft blow up so much it makes it to reddit's front page.

oh brother... if only it was a Hyundai Genesis

[IEDEI]

the brand snobbery being shown here is pretty sad......i think it would be better to acknowledge the abilities of the Civic Type R rather than berate it to make yourselves feel better about the $70k you might have spent on a slower M3 or M4. The Civic Type R runs the Nurburgring in around 7m50s....faster than any tested M3/M4-----and that time is REALLY quick.

Less brand snobbery and more appreciation that there are cheaper FAST cars out there for all types of budgets. I love hot hatches and am glad they are so great now....

[ORIGIN M.]

Meanwhile on the Honda Civic forums....

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

the brand snobbery being shown here is pretty sad......i think it would be better to acknowledge the abilities of the Civic Type R rather than berate it to make yourselves feel better about the $70k you might have spent on a slower M3 or M4. The Civic Type R runs the Nurburgring in around 7m50s....faster than any tested M3/M4-----and that time is REALLY quick.

Less brand snobbery and more appreciation that there are cheaper FAST cars out there for all types of budgets. I love hot hatches and am glad they are so great now....

I agree, the only problem is that the two runs weren't apple to apple... The M3 was ran by a magazine on street tires, the Civic had a cage, a few items pulled and much more aggressive tires w the Honda Factory driver behind the wheel. Still very respectable for a Civic but you have to be objective here and these comparos aren't.

[TheIceStormOf06]

Originally Posted by Hedoniste

Why does anyone pay this guy attention? He has no credibility. He has never said anything possitive about the F8X and is almost always at odds with every other reviewer. He has a track record of hating BMWs.

His car control and throttle modulation is horrible. It even shoulder like he let up on the gas at the end.

[Wozich]

I'm not a Honda hater, it must be said that the new CTR is a very fast and capable car. But you guys need to stop comparing the Nurburgring lap times between the M4 and CTR. A lap time must be done by the same driver to be comparable. And Sport Auto (the guys that recorded the M4 time) don't do their lap times at optimal conditions, they just do a few laps and thats it. You don't have to be a pro racing driver to beat their time.

So why didn't Honda let Sport Auto time their car? Well because they wanted to beat the FWD lap record, like Renault and Seat did with their own racing drivers. It's just for marketing purposes.

[punky8d]

[4er_Meister]

Lmfaooo who calls BULLSHIT! I do!!! After that last turn its seems like a straight, why does he (and you can hear it) let off the accelerator before passing the finish line?? On the Audi and the BMW!? Also, why take traction fully off? Awesome review Auto Express!

[BTWoody]

WHY!!!! would he turn DSC fully off in a quick lap time review, I hate Sutcliffe!!

[GMe90]

When you compare the price of these vehicles, the M3s time should be much better than the Civic's. There is no excuse.

[NYHoustonman]

Originally Posted by NYAWE60

So much butthurt here, its hysterical. Look, the reality is even if he would've eliminated one drift, that would've reduced the lap time by enough to beat the CTR. We all KNOW that very well. In the grand scheme of things though, the fact that a Civic can legitimately be compared to an M3 is HUGE. And lets be fair here, even if the M3 beat out the CTR, it wouldn't have been by a significant margin.

What everyone here is not admitting or noticing is that he is in no way trying to tear down the reputation of the M3, in fact he praises it. All he's doing is giving tons of credibility to the Civic and for what its worth, it deserves it.

If I had to choose between the two, I'd be in the M3 all day, no questions about it. The Civic however is a well developed and focused product and I tip my hat to Honda for building such a wonderful machine, especially since they've been so criticized in the past 5-10 years for just putting out appliances. Too bad we won't be getting the hot hatch version from Europe, I saw the Coupe Type R concept at the NYIAS and I felt it was lackluster by comparison to its European counterpart. This segment is heating up big time, the Focus RS is coming soon and that wicked little car has a legit drift mode. Cars like that will only make comparisons like this more interesting.

When it comes to performance cars, we're in a changed world people, accept it. We now have tons of FI cars and barely any with large displacement NA motors. We have FWD cars besting track times put out by last generation Porsche's and BMW's (and even current ones for that matter). American companies like GM and Dodge are putting out cars like the Z06 and Viper that have world class performance. Embrace it, all that will happen is there will be something for everyone and being a young dad and seasoned professional that can buy either of these cars, I'm all for it.

I came to this thread to get my morning laugh in for exactly this reason. BMW owners are shockingly predictable. God forbid it should turn out that an M car isn't better than everything else at everything. This is the most sensible reply so far, and I agree - it's a great time to be a car enthusiast! Enjoy what you drive and pay no mind to others' opinions of it.

Steve Sutcliffe is a great automotive journalist with a wealth of experience and a better driver than 99.9% of the people in this thread criticizing him. He echos the sentiment of many of my personal favorite journalists (most of them European): that the new M3/M4 are hugely impressive but also very difficult to drive quickly in all but the most perfect of conditions, and that something has been lost in the switch to forced induction.