M3/M4 or M2?

[jdarch82]

Very nice car, don't get me wrong - but I'm glad that I didn't wait and went with an F80.

[dmk08]

I want to get one for my wife tbqh. Now I just have to get her to want it.

[S65V8]

@ $50k, this isn't a surprise at all. Not as concerned about CF or pretty mirrorlets, more about why BMW short changed us on the engine a tad.

[doberzus]

Originally Posted by shortseller

Well they got the fender flares right, more striking than the m4 in my opinion.

Thats subjective though, I think the front and side profile of the M2 is on point, the rear however....not so much. Somethings missing, it looks uninspiring and not as aggressive as I had hoped for.

Plus, I prefer the F80 and BMW got the rear fender flare design perfectly on the F80. Dat ass though!

[shortseller]

Originally Posted by doberzus

Thats subjective though, I think the front and side profile of the M2 is on point, the rear however....not so much. Somethings missing, it looks uninspiring and not as aggressive as I had hoped for.

Plus, I prefer the F80 and BMW got the rear fender flare design perfectly on the F80. Dat ass though!

Agreed!

[MyFragileHalogen]

Originally Posted by doberzus

-NO bespoke M engine(my X1 has an N55 )
-NO special M seats
-NO Carbon Fiber roof
-NO M mirrors.... What a joke.
-Rearend still looks blah IMO
-Underpowered, has less torque than a damn Focus RS and only 15hp more than the RS.
-6MT M2 Weighs the SAME as 6MT M3. 3450 I believe.
-One interior color choice(black... boring)
-3 bland colors and one vivid color.

What am I missing?

It's more like an upgraded M235, not M2. Marketing bullshit. Sad they are constrained to be not made any impressive compare to M3/M4, and sorry for people who pay 50k for that, unless at least it got lighter weight. Glad our M3/M4 didn't have such stupid constraints as M5/M6 is in a different league.

[socalgasking]

I dont think i could use a car this small as a daily driver, with that said i dont drive my M4 daily either. Kind of looks girly to me. Also i cant wait to hear all the shit talking from guys who buy this car.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen

It's more like an upgraded M235, not M2. Marketing bullshit. Sad they are constrained to be not made any impressive compare to M3/M4, and sorry for people who pay 50k for that, unless at least it got lighter weight. Glad our M3/M4 didn't have such stupid constraints as M5/M6 is in a different league.

Some people would argue the TT 6 is a stupid constraint

All cars have compromises and, IMO, the M2 is a good car for the price. Could it be better? Sure... but so could the M3/4.

[Ian1973]

Originally Posted by dim635csi

And LDS-coated aluminum cylinder liners vs cast iron in N55...

I thought I read they did the liners in the cylinders. But I only scanned it quickly.

I think 50k for that is a decent price, when an optioned out M235 is near that.

[dim635csi]

Originally Posted by Ian1973

I thought I read they did the liners in the cylinders. But I only scanned it quickly.

It says M2 has grey cast-iron optimized top ring for S55 pistons. LDS was used by BMW first time back in 2011 for N20 engine. It provides both weight savings and better cooling (thinner implanted liner) vs cast iron liner.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by doberzus

-Underpowered, has less torque than a damn Focus RS and only 15hp more than the RS.

But let's not forget that an M3/M4 has less power than a Mustang GT too (and lots less than a GT350 if we were going to go so far as to keep score).

That said, you did make some very valid points with your list.

I think at $50k (if that is genuinely going to be the price in the US), the M2 is a good value against the CLA45. Not a perfect comparison, but these are similarly sized and similarly powered luxury cars. I actually think that a 4 cylinder like the CLA (and Focus RS) would have been perfect since it would mean ~100 less lbs or so. They could have built an S20, applying TT to the N20 - sort of an S55 Jr. That'll almost surely come next generation, but then so will a transverse engine layout w/transaxle and AWD.

[blinkme323]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

But let's not forget that an M3/M4 has less power than a Mustang GT too (and lots less than a GT350 if we were going to go so far as to keep score).

That said, you did make some very valid points with your list.

I think at $50k (if that is genuinely going to be the price in the US), the M2 is a good value against the CLA45. Not a perfect comparison, but these are similarly sized and similarly powered luxury cars. I actually think that a 4 cylinder like the CLA (and Focus RS) would have been perfect since it would mean ~100 less lbs or so. They could have built an S20, applying TT to the N20 - sort of an S55 Jr. That'll almost surely come next generation, but then so will a transverse engine layout w/transaxle and AWD.

Eh, not entirely. Put the M3 and Mustang GT dyno numbers side by side and it will tell a different story. M3 is vastly underrated while the advertised numbers are right on point for the GT (if not slightly overrated).

[doberzus]

The M2 could have been so much more special... Coming from a 135I 6MT, I always dreamed of a lightweight(~3300lb or less) 2 door coupe with M handling and big power(torque) from the factory, with full warranty.

If the M2 would have had a CF roof(among other CF pieces,) would have had a slightly detuned S55(400bhp/390tq,) Special M seats with a lightweight/barebones interior, lightweight 18"s, and full interior/exterior color choices. It would have been an enthusiasts DREAM! I would have bought that for $65k no doubt, over the F80.

However, BMW didn't want to cut into the legendary M3's(also M4's) sales, which is understandable. But dammit, one can only dream of such a unicorn of a car from the factory.

I still can't get over the fact that it doesn't even have the M mirrors....

[gthal]

I don't get the obsession with "M mirrors"

The M5/6 don't have special mirrors. Why do people care other than out of principle? To me, the wide body, fender flares, etc are far more representative of M cars than a mirror design that I'll never really notice anyway. The car is 100mm wider!! That's what matters IMO. Now, I would like to have seen a CF roof but, even that, is no real big deal.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by blinkme323

Eh, not entirely. Put the M3 and Mustang GT dyno numbers side by side and it will tell a different story. M3 is vastly underrated while the advertised numbers are right on point for the GT (if not slightly overrated).

Like I say, if we were really keeping score - GT350. But we aren't keeping score since there is lots more to a car than power. Same reason a Hellcat doesn't make every car under 1M dollars irrelevant.

BTW the GT isn't overrated because if it were then things would have played out like they did with the 2001 SVT Cobra.

[doberzus]

Originally Posted by gthal

I don't get the obsession with "M mirrors"
The M5/6 don't have special mirrors.

Both the F10 M5 and F12 M6 have M only, unique mirrors. As do the E60 M5's and E63 M6's...

It's just the fact that the BMW/M designers and engineers didn't care, nor did they pay attention to details. Details matter on special cars.... Too bad the M2 isn't that special.

[AsiaKid]

Hi new to the f80/2 forums..I just bought a ymb m4 once i saw the specs of the m2 confirmed. I was already hesitant with the n55 modded engine rather than the s55...but when i saw the weight was barely lighter than the m235i didnt see the value/specialness in the car..of course i realize there are many tiny tweaks here and there..but i was hoping it would be a more raw car ...it seems bmw wasn't too agressive with this version and left a lot of space for further improvement (CSL?)

[BoosTonian]

For me it's slightly weird for a non S motor in a full-blown M. I'll definitely take it for a drive nonetheless, it looks like fun and I'm sure M made it drive and feel like an M car.

[gearboxtrouble]

The M3 has gotten faster, more refined, more sophisticated and much much more expensive each generation. The f8x is a straight up Porsche 911/Jaguar F type competitor to the point where BMW changed the coupe's branding to the M4 so that it could move on from the association with the e30/e36 generation cars. Sure, one can still squeeze a stripper M3 under the $70k mark but the vast majority of M3/4s are in the $75-85k range (including sales tax). There's a decent opportunity for a $50-60k car in the M range to be what the earlier M3's used to be. The M2 appears to be BMW's attempt at this.

It uses a modded N55 because the S55 would be too expensive. Its less powerful, has single turbo, a smaller bore (and slightly smaller capacity), an air/air intercooler and a lower redline. It doesn't use anything like the amount of carbon fiber and aluminium as the f8x so it weighs nearly the same as the M4. I'm sure a ~350hp S version of the N20 with all the S55 goodies applied to a smaller 4 cylinder would have saved some serious weight and made more sense but that would have required some R&D spend. In everything, there appears to be a lot of effort put into keeping the cost relatively low. The fact that it still offers 80-90% of the performance for 15-20k less makes it very impressive.

The 1M has gained a following but it was produced in extremely limited numbers for a niche. The M2 appears to be a much more serious mainstream effort built to test the sales potential in this segment. I'm sure there will be some small competition with stripper M3 sales but I don't think BMW minds that too much. The M3/4 will continue to move upmarket and the M2 will be the new entry level M car.

[damnitBobby]

lol at people wanting more power

[nicknaz]

As for the M2, if it really is $50k and comes with similar standard equipment as M3/M4 that means some will have a low options M2 via euro delivery in the mid $40k range, which is a GREAT deal in my opinion

[W///]

Originally Posted by doberzus

Both the F10 M5 and F12 M6 have M only, unique mirrors. As do the E60 M5's and E63 M6's...

It's just the fact that the BMW/M designers and engineers didn't care, nor did they pay attention to details. Details matter on special cars.... Too bad the M2 isn't that special.

It'll be a more playful car than the M3/4. How's that for a detail?

And this is coming from someone who will be getting an F80 next year.