Chris Harris Drives: Merc-AMG GT R vs 911 GT3 RS vs BMW M4 GTS

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by YungDro

Nah he doesn't get it. Everyone has different opinions 90% I know love it as a fun track car. Bmw never set it out to compete witg the gt3 rs. Its real competitor is the c63 R which will be the same price as a M4 GTS

If I paid $130K+ for it, I would love it too. Just saying...

[EvenKeel]

Originally Posted by redrumm3

As the owner of a GTS who tracks the car, I can tell you that the car is more than capable of crushing the 4S. I've had no problem disposing GT3's and RS's on the track even older Cup cars. As for the Merc, I can't say. None are at the track.

BMW has built a car that can hold its own against the competition in competent hands and at a price point that's quite reasonable compared to the real price you have to pay for the competition.

I'm not dissing on Harris, I hold him in high regard, but I think the press in general totally misses the point on the GTS. It requires some setup and seat time to get it right.

Would love to see you crush an RS with a competent driver. Perhaps you should run your GTS at Bilster Berg and post your lap time.

[vladberca]

BMW doesn't have a competitor for AMG GT and 911.
They made a track focused M4 that can be close in performance with these cars.
As Competition Pack is enough for M4 to be faster than its rivals on most of the tracks, they developed a limited series more track oriented. The response from Daimler is not yet released.
So I don't understand the CH point of view.

[///FCB]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

Again, the 911GT3 RS costs twice as much as the M4 GTS. What kind of a comparison is that?
Totally different price range.
Like comparing the GTS to a regular M4. The GTS goes 30 seconds faster around the ring than the M3/M4.
They are all great cars at their own price point but for different budgets.
No need for the reviewer to bash one or the other.
You could buy a new M4 GTS, a New M3 and a new M4 for the price of a used 911 GT3 RS!!!
If they were priced the same it would be a different story.

I dont know how the prices are in the US but in Europe the M4 GTS goes for 200-240k Euros. That is exactly the same price range as GT3 RS's and more than a AMG GTR. The comparison makes total sense and the M4 GTS is just an overpriced POS, period.

[RPChan]

Originally Posted by redrumm3

As the owner of a GTS who tracks the car, I can tell you that the car is more than capable of crushing the 4S. I've had no problem disposing GT3's and RS's on the track even older Cup cars. As for the Merc, I can't say. None are at the track.

BMW has built a car that can hold its own against the competition in competent hands and at a price point that's quite reasonable compared to the real price you have to pay for the competition.

I'm not dissing on Harris, I hold him in high regard, but I think the press in general totally misses the point on the GTS. It requires some setup and seat time to get it right.

U said this right. The GTS requires seat time and adjustment like any track car. It is a different animal to even the AMG and GT3.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by EvenKeel

Would love to see you crush an RS with a competent driver. Perhaps you should run your GTS at Bilster Berg and post your lap time.

Yeah I agree it doesn't say much. You beat the driver and not the car.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

GT3 RS does not cost twice as much as the M4 GTS in MSRP. You can't really say they can't compare just because of the trading value of the GT3 RS is so high.

Initially some were trying to sell the M4 GTS at over 200k too.

I love all this buying to speculate and selling after for huge profit. It's like those lovely people who buy up concert / festival tickets and put them on eBay for double the price. Really makes me happy to see I can't go because someone else was able to get in front of me, buy my one and then sell it back to me. What incredible skill and inventiveness, you deserve to make money!

Instead of buying something to enjoy it you buy (opportunistically) to try and exploit money out of someone who wants to enjoy it more than you do. I'm not bashing appreciation which I think is a good thing, but it's almost being a car tout.

The worst thing though is the dealerships then complete the circle by also charging over price too.

I know some of it is natural supply and demand but how many middle men do you need!?

[Ghostriderf80]

Originally Posted by M4_GTS

Here's the latest comparison from Chris Harris between these 3 cars! ready, this is going to get ugly again!

https://www.topgear.com/videos/chris...-vs-bmw-m4-gts

If anything this makes me want to get a GT3.

[MSups6]

M4gts price is the one and only downfall, though a huge huge one.

Hell Nissan knew better then price the GTR anywhere near its victims. Would have been such a steal at near 100k and limited to a few thousand a year.

[Advevo]

The GTS and CS are nice cars from BMW to extract some extra cash from. They are Cashcows.

Just pick an secondhand M4 competition put a rear cage in some Pilotsport cups and KW3 and you drive faster then the CS and stick on the tail of an GTS. You can also put one in Guardrail and leave the car and step in you M4 T car that is still cheaper lol

These cars are more for investments. If you wanna go fast on track there are better choices.

I have also friends who track the GT3 RS on track. They also stopped with that. The cost of maintenance went trough of the roof.

Just grab a base M car from BMW and build you're track car from there if you wanna use it hard. And put the GTS in the garage and sell it in a few years with big profit. You're trackday build and trackday fee and brake pads, tires etc were all free then

[SeanWRT]

Engineer a silly car, ask for silly money and make few enough of it to find its buyers. That is it.

Silly car being sold out doesn't change the fact it's a silly car.

[jettie1767]

I love my M4. Dealer called me when they had an M4 GTS come in last Dec. I didn't like it at all when I saw it. And it's still for sale now.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Why? Because BMW has to make a competitor with the chassis of a regular car, the 3/4-series. Just like Chris said.

The Merc and the Porsche don't have that problem.

BMW would have to create a whole new, stand alone chassis to compete.

Or launched with a much lower MSRP.

[N & M]

Watching this review just hurts. I have never driven the GTS but can't imagine it is as bad as he rates it. If this is the reality then BMW needs to really do something with M2 extreme car they are preparing to set the record right.

One day, just maybe in my lifetime, we could see an extreme BM that sock it to the GT3.

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Yeah I agree it doesn't say much. You beat the driver and not the car.

Truth

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by clbmw

I love all this buying to speculate and selling after for huge profit. It's like those lovely people who buy up concert / festival tickets and put them on eBay for double the price. Really makes me happy to see I can't go because someone else was able to get in front of me, buy my one and then sell it back to me. What incredible skill and inventiveness, you deserve to make money!

Instead of buying something to enjoy it you buy (opportunistically) to try and exploit money out of someone who wants to enjoy it more than you do. I'm not bashing appreciation which I think is a good thing, but it's almost being a car tout.

The worst thing though is the dealerships then complete the circle by also charging over price too.

I know some of it is natural supply and demand but how many middle men do you need!?

Buy from United BMW Roswell. IIRC their policy is never sell over MSRP.

[jpdchicago]

The way Chris Harris acts in that video is over the top when he decides it is so bad he has to stop driving ASAP.
Remember Clarkson? He got huge ratings with that episode of top gear bashing the GTS.
It is reality TV and all about ratings.
The formula always works: let's choose a rare or cult car and bash it and get the ratings. The GTS was a perfect bait for viewers.
If the car had been set properly for the track unlike in the video (all on street setting, no aero) Harris could not have done his number.
FYI, there are several reviews of the GTS in Europe by legendary race and rally drivers (not TV clowns) who could not believe how great the car is.
I am not saying it is not entertaining to watch (I enjoyed it) but it is not a professional review.

[m4282]

The truth is every manufacturer needs to tend to the bean counters.... look at Porsche more than 60% of their sales are cayenne and Macans.... https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/comp...ord-13310.html

The issue is though that Porsche is still keeping true to its racing heritage by offering "gifts" such as the gt3 or type r.... BMW isn't this is why folks are annoyed especially when they are charging close to 150USD for this thing. Like many said if they priced this at 100k you would not have these reviews....it would be ok and considered revolutionary for that.

This phenomenon which value based payment is happening everywhere even in healthcare ..... it's about BMW woke up and realized this. I agree with Chris ..... get the m3 or m4 or m2 and skip the GTS it's not worth the "value" for the price increase---- that's all this review is saying ultimately.

[norMcal]

Nothing new really. Love watching CH car reviews, but I have seen enough of the M4 GTS to know that it is not BMW's best work. They have lost their touch a bit, which should be obvious to anybody that has been paying attention for the last couple of decades. I used to not be able to wait to get my hands on the newest M3, but now I don't even care anymore what they come out with. The only new car from BMW that excites me a bit is the M2, but I am not thrilled with the looks........although that is subjective.

In the day and age where many like to take their cars to the track, you would think that BMW would build a car that was actually good for it, and somewhat affordable, which was always one of the things that made them stand apart from Porsche, besides having usable rear seats.

That being said, if they want to compete with the 911 GT3 RS, then they should come up with something new, not based on a sedan. I guess they are more interested in green energy and i cars, which is why I feel they have lost their ways a bit............................thus I am sticking to my e46 M3, which still serves me very well for track days and if I ever replace it, I might have to step over to the dark side and get a 991.

[GioM3]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

They do not want to do it. They would rather be the German Toyota

Even Toyota has LFA....

[neilum]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Nothing new really. Love watching CH car reviews, but I have seen enough of the M4 GTS to know that it is not BMW's best work. They have lost their touch a bit, which should be obvious to anybody that has been paying attention for the last couple of decades. I used to not be able to wait to get my hands on the newest M3, but now I don't even care anymore what they come out with. The only new car from BMW that excites me a bit is the M2, but I am not thrilled with the looks........although that is subjective.

In the day and age where many like to take their cars to the track, you would think that BMW would build a car that was actually good for it, and somewhat affordable, which was always one of the things that made them stand apart from Porsche, besides having usable rear seats.

That being said, if they want to compete with the 911 GT3 RS, then they should come up with something new, not based on a sedan. I guess they are more interested in green energy and i cars, which is why I feel they have lost their ways a bit............................thus I am sticking to my e46 M3, which still serves me very well for track days and if I ever replace it, I might have to step over to the dark side and get a 991.

I know the M3/4 is nothing compared to the Gti, but we can dream.

[Draper]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

GT3 RS does not cost twice as much as the M4 GTS in MSRP. You can't really say they can't compare just because of the trading value of the GT3 RS is so high.

Initially some were trying to sell the M4 GTS at over 200k too.

You're splitting hairs.

Most GTS owners paid sticker, and the RS will typically be $100k north of the GTS.