Another engine oil thread. Castrol Edge/Pennzoil/ Liqui Moly?

[MisterF80M3]

Well, I am on my 5th oil change (25k miles coming up). I have been using Castrol Edge 0W-40 for the past 4 oil change every 5k miles with no issues. I have been hearing all the raves about Liqui Moly so I have been doing some research. I was tempted to switch to Liqui Moly from FCP Euro since they offer free returns, essentially getting a full oil change minus the return shipping cost.

It looks like Liqui Moly Molygen doesn't carry the LL01 certification?

According to this Youtuber, Liqui Moly faired worst than Castrol and Pennzoil.

Thoughts on sticking to Castrol, which doesn't have the LL01 certification or switch to LiquiMoly for the free oil change, or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Euro which has LL01 certification and recommended by BMW.

[AlmondJayRoM3]

Originally Posted by MisterF80M3

Thoughts on sticking to Castrol, which doesn't have the LL01 certification or switch to LiquiMoly for the free oil change, or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Euro which has LL01 certification and recommended by BMW.

If you’re changing every 5000 mi I wouldn’t worry about the LL01 certification so much. You’re already not using LL01 and if it’s really a concern, do a used oil analysis on both your next oil change and after 5000 mi on liqui moly. You’ll probably find not much difference between the two.

Then again Castrol edge is pretty cheap, especially when on sale at Walmart. It’s 22 dollars for the 5qt jug right now and when you factor in return shipping costs and the hassle of collecting and repackaging the used oil, is it worth whatever you will be saving?

[SCS55]

I've spent so much money at Blackstone I'd figure I'll share some data points on my test engine.....This is strictly an unscientific observation of my engines condition. I'm not a mechanic nor an engineer, so you can gleen whatever idea you have about these numbers.
My last two samples I've ran LM Molygen 5W40. Previously I used Castrol 0W40. My 2016 M3 was recieving pretty good results on the Castrol 0W40. After 3 cycles I switched to Molygen 5W40 only because I have 2 other BMW's that are high mileage and the UV dye in Liqui Moly's Molygen helps monitor weeping etc. The reason for 6 samples? I bought the car and immediately found coolant in the oil after the first post inspection sample and I've been watching the Sodium and Potassium (antifreeze) levels like a hawk. Also, the Iron wear has had a very nice decline as well and it's fun monitoring my S55.
I think if you do 5,000 mile oil changes, either one will be fine. Castrol is fairly cheap at Walmart.

2016 six speed, base stripper model.
65,000 miles and driving the snot out of it.

[Musashi]

i found out three weeks ago that it is NOT approved nor certified by BMW. This was the result of communication with Liqui Molly DEU and North America after a 20,000 kms experiment with two Molygen batches, and a broader 80,000 km trial of several oils in my cars, and the occasional BMW lower shipped with DEU factory oil.

Molygen is piss poor for a BMW. Safe, yes, but a performance edge killer, sedating the top 10-15% of any inline six. You may get to the eventual Pmax output, but how you get there, the engine's torque along the RPM band per gear, is a different story. My mechanic, a V12 BMW rebuilder, also cautioned me that North American oils and most variation are different than the EU versions. An oil may be Made in germany but with NA additives, thus altering its properties ever so slightly. "If you can tell, you will find the DEU version far smoother" he told me...

In the two Molygen batches I ran, the engine felt sedated when cold, and iffyiish when warmed up. A BMW but somehwta, 10-15% hesitant at the very top of the power band per gear? And esp when 5C, 0C -10C cold really sedated and slightly hesitant, fighting internal resistance. It was ok when warmed, but it felt leagues below when new, and less than in 2017 when i ran Liqui Molly Showing Leichtlauf.

Dec 2020, I had my Molygen observations memorized, Blackstone results to confirm no issues, and switched to DEU Fuchs. It was like getting a new engine, a refined smoothness, feather like pedal responsiveness that I had only felt with DEU stock oil (2014), Leightlauff in 2017, and now, Dec 2020. Although 111,000 kms, my car responded as I knew it at its best. Each gear change smoother. Cold, all the way to -20C, smooth! No hesitancy, no resistance, no pressure. Turbos? Whiirrrr responsive.

WHY? Why two different Molygen batches provided such inferior experience? "not BMW Approved" was the answer... After Google Translated email to Germany, got some very nice replies in English and North American Rep call (under pressing direction from DEU), I was clearly told what I mentioned in the first sentence. At best, Molygen is used as an emergency alternative IF no actual approved oil is on hand.. I was also told that it works well with specific Japanese and US cars, names with known lesser engine tolerances. I was also told that Fuchs is indeed a close match for Leightlauff , as is Motul.

Yes, your car engine will be safe, but under-performing with Molygen. Switch to Fuchs or Motul or Leightlauff and you will forget that Castrol or Shell or Molygen exists.

no, not all LL-01s are created equal. Whatever they add or do to oils for the North American markets, most variations, even if NA 'Recommended' or 'Approved', do not perform as the versions that your engine was designed and tested for at the Ring.

Enclosed a sample Approval letter. Molygen has no such thing.

[JamesGames]

I think there is always too much misinformation regarding oil and most of it has to do with brand loyalty (generally speaking on the car forums). Head over to BITOG (bob is the oil guy) for extensive threads on oil analysis , oil quality, oil composition etc.

But for the most part, LL01 is an easy way to find a product that will pass minimum specifications for your car. LL-01 not required because of short mileage isn't necessarily true or false. LL-01 specs have minimum viscosity / sheer grades and at the minimum, it provides oil that will run fine in your car.

For example, LL-01 has a max NOACK level, which can mean less of your oil is basically allowed to evaporate and turn into gunk building up in your DI turbo motor. However, it certainly is not the lowest NOACK level. There are lower non LL01 NOACK oils, but they may be too thin and not have the 3.5 HTHS mandate that BMW LL-01 carries. See why LL01 is an easy way to find an oil that will do just fine in your car? All oils are a compromise and you will hardly find one oil that can do everything well. LL-01 is a requirement that sort of umbrellas a lot of things under; again, there are certainly better oil and worse oils (in certain performance aspects) out there but really depends what you are looking for. All oils are a compromise in one area or another. Certifications just make it easier (but not all certified oils are the same.. are we going crazy yet?)

Castrol 0w40 5 jugs is a damn steal for 22$ at walmart / amazon / etc. Buying a boutique grade oil and running both for the span of 100,000 miles, I am willing to bet you won't find a difference in the amount of wear in your car.

Certifications are not pointless. They are there to make our lives easier. Brand loyalty is probably the worst thing in engine oil. Castrol 0w40 > most of Liquimoly stuff when I look at the compositions of the oil. Castrol 0w40 (German Castrol) and 0w30 (Belgium Castrol) are two of the finest oils available at the stores still to this day, use with confidence, and cost savings.

I have ran Castrol 0w40/0w30 for 15+ years. Much has changed since then yet they still keep putting out a well polished product that has been used in many applications. All my castrol used oil analysis have been great, especially for the price. With that said any LL-01 certified oil will produce likely decent results because well that's the point of certifications.

I bought a stash of Ravenol 5w30 / 0w40 (LL01 certified) to try out and waste some more money on UOA for fun.
I've ran liquimoly / motul / castrol /mobil / ravenol / bmw aka shell/pennzoil)
BMW is going back to castrol after using shell/pennzoil for last 5-6 years.

Just buy what is cheaper and still carries certs would be my recommendation.
just my 2 cents.

[SCS55]

Originally Posted by Musashi

i found out three weeks ago that it is NOT approved nor certified by BMW. This was the result of communication with Liqui Molly DEU and North America after a 20,000 kms experiment with two Molygen batches, and a broader 80,000 km trial of several oils in my cars, and the occasional BMW lower shipped with DEU factory oil.

Molygen is piss poor for a BMW. Safe, yes, but a performance edge killer, sedating the top 10-15% of any inline six. You may get to the eventual Pmax output, but how you get there, the engine's torque along the RPM band per gear, is a different story. My mechanic, a V12 BMW rebuilder, also cautioned me that North American oils and most variation are different than the EU versions. An oil may be Made in germany but with NA additives, thus altering its properties ever so slightly. "If you can tell, you will find the DEU version far smoother" he told me...

In the two Molygen batches I ran, the engine felt sedated when cold, and iffyiish when warmed up. A BMW but somehwta, 10-15% hesitant at the very top of the power band per gear? And esp when 5C, 0C -10C cold really sedated and slightly hesitant, fighting internal resistance. It was ok when warmed, but it felt leagues below when new, and less than in 2017 when i ran Liqui Molly Showing Leichtlauf.

Dec 2020, I had my Molygen observations memorized, Blackstone results to confirm no issues, and switched to DEU Fuchs. It was like getting a new engine, a refined smoothness, feather like pedal responsiveness that I had only felt with DEU stock oil (2014), Leightlauff in 2017, and now, Dec 2020. Although 111,000 kms, my car responded as I knew it at its best. Each gear change smoother. Cold, all the way to -20C, smooth! No hesitancy, no resistance, no pressure. Turbos? Whiirrrr responsive.

WHY? Why two different Molygen batches provided such inferior experience? "not BMW Approved" was the answer... After Google Translated email to Germany, got some very nice replies in English and North American Rep call (under pressing direction from DEU), I was clearly told what I mentioned in the first sentence. At best, Molygen is used as an emergency alternative IF no actual approved oil is on hand.. I was also told that it works well with specific Japanese and US cars, names with known lesser engine tolerances. I was also told that Fuchs is indeed a close match for Leightlauff , as is Motul.

Yes, your car engine will be safe, but under-performing with Molygen. Switch to Fuchs or Motul or Leightlauff and you will forget that Castrol or Shell or Molygen exists.

no, not all LL-01s are created equal. Whatever they add or do to oils for the North American markets, most variations, even if NA 'Recommended' or 'Approved', do not perform as the versions that your engine was designed and tested for at the Ring.

Enclosed a sample Approval letter. Molygen has no such thing.

I'm sorry but you lost me with sedated, iffyish, and fighting internal resistance.

[luthers4]

Safe to use Mobil 1 0-40 Euro Formula in S55? I've searched and can't find an answer. Have 2- 5 qt jugs left over from my 911.

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by luthers4

Safe to use Mobil 1 0-40 Euro Formula in S55? I've searched and can't find an answer. Have 2- 5 qt jugs left over from my 911.

It doesn't carry LL01 if that matters to you.

[NYG]

I used the LL-01 FE with plenty of track miles. Sent it to blackstone a few times and everytime "you're changing oil too often - looks brand new."

You're overthinking it.

All modern synthetics perform the primary task of lubricating and secondary tasks of:
1) Oxidation
2) Rust Protection
3) Emissions
4) etc...

The difference between most brands is how many parts per million of additive they put of secondary functions and believe me those numbers pretty insignificant. Just use whatever BMW tells you to use.

[jd__m4]

I've used a couple diff for the S55, just changed mine recently with Valvoline 5W-40 which carries the LL-01 cert. It's ~$50 for 7qts from Amazon.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by SCS55

I'm sorry but you lost me with sedated, iffyish, and fighting internal resistance.

Molygen in not performant, nor approved nor recommended by BMW for any BMW engine. Leichtlauf is, as is Fuchs and Motul. Consequently it does not work well.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by NYG

I used the LL-01 FE with plenty of track miles. Sent it to blackstone a few times and everytime "you're changing oil too often - looks brand new."

You're overthinking it.

All modern synthetics perform the primary task of lubricating and secondary tasks of:
1) Oxidation
2) Rust Protection
3) Emissions
4) etc...

The difference between most brands is how many parts per million of additive they put of secondary functions and believe me those numbers pretty insignificant. Just use whatever BMW tells you to use.

I agree with 1to 3 unsure about the etc. My friend's B58 comes with a 0W-20 recommendation. Of course, unsuitable for a hot inline 6. the 20 is done to ensure a lower CO2 emission (and onyl that reason). Factually, at equal DD spring or winter driving a 20 will burn less gas than a 30 or a 40. At temperature, however, the 20 is inferior to the 30 or the 40, especially when pushed and in summer. Since Ms are assumed to be hot, they never dare put a 20 or a 30 variation.

In addition, not oils work the same, whether in F1 or within street or GT cars. An oil may be wonderfully OK for a Stinger or some Japanese car with low engine tolerances, but Passable for a German car operating at just micron tolerances. Either case, having seen myself the delta between a 5W-40 Castrol vs Shell vs Leightluaff vs Motul vs Fuchs vs poor Molygen, I do agree that the best oils are those specifically approved, as in Letter Stamped approved after testing, by the manufacturer.

The rest of Recommended for LL-01, which is the Oil maker's assessment as an emergency alternative to approved oils, should be taken with several grains of salt as satisfying that engine's needs.

Now, for 99% of slow casual DD, indeed, none of these should matter.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by Musashi

I agree with 1to 3 unsure about the etc. My friend's B58 comes with a 0W-20 recommendation. Of course, unsuitable for a hot inline 6. the 20 is done to ensure a lower CO2 emission (and onyl that reason). Factually, at equal DD spring or winter driving a 20 will burn less gas than a 30 or a 40. At temperature, however, the 20 is inferior to the 30 or the 40, especially when pushed and in summer. Since Ms are assumed to be hot, they never dare put a 20 or a 30 variation.

In addition, not oils work the same, whether in F1 or within street or GT cars. An oil may be wonderfully OK for a Stinger or some Japanese car with low engine tolerances, but Passable for a German car operating at just micron tolerances. Either case, having seen myself the delta between a 5W-40 Castrol vs Shell vs Leightluaff vs Motul vs Fuchs vs poor Molygen, I do agree that the best oils are those specifically approved, as in Letter Stamped approved after testing, by the manufacturer.

The rest of Recommended for LL-01, which is the Oil maker's assessment as an emergency alternative to approved oils, should be taken with several grains of salt as satisfying that engine's needs.

Now, for 99% of slow casual DD, indeed, none of these should matter.

Racing is a whole different animal. Most of those additives are useless for pure racing. But racing is still different than taking your street car to the track or driving it hard.

All primary combustion components operate on the same tolerances, no such thing as German micron tolerances. Your engine needs to be able to operate at -20F all the way to +200F. Within those 220 degrees of change, there is a lot of thermal expansion that needs to be allowed for. That's why GTLM/F1 engines need to be heated before they can even turn on - because at operating temperatures the pistons would seize.

Viscosity is very important but again, the engine and oil cooling on the F8x is kind of insane. Only car I've ever seen on track that comfortably sits at 198F/200F on 100F days directly under the sun.

I'm happy if my Vette stays under 270F for oil temps.

[hC1001]

Originally Posted by Musashi

I agree with 1to 3 unsure about the etc. My friend's B58 comes with a 0W-20 recommendation. Of course, unsuitable for a hot inline 6. the 20 is done to ensure a lower CO2 emission (and onyl that reason). Factually, at equal DD spring or winter driving a 20 will burn less gas than a 30 or a 40. At temperature, however, the 20 is inferior to the 30 or the 40, especially when pushed and in summer. Since Ms are assumed to be hot, they never dare put a 20 or a 30 variation.

In addition, not oils work the same, whether in F1 or within street or GT cars. An oil may be wonderfully OK for a Stinger or some Japanese car with low engine tolerances, but Passable for a German car operating at just micron tolerances. Either case, having seen myself the delta between a 5W-40 Castrol vs Shell vs Leightluaff vs Motul vs Fuchs vs poor Molygen, I do agree that the best oils are those specifically approved, as in Letter Stamped approved after testing, by the manufacturer.

The rest of Recommended for LL-01, which is the Oil maker's assessment as an emergency alternative to approved oils, should be taken with several grains of salt as satisfying that engine's needs.

Now, for 99% of slow casual DD, indeed, none of these should matter.

Its true molygen is not certified but it meets/exceed the requirements. Redline oil is not certified either but its some of the best oil you can use. If you are still in warranty, dont use unapproved oils.

Im currently using molygen and felt no difference between it and BMW 0W-30. If you look at the UOA posted, it protects the engine. Hundreds of factors could cause your car to feel different. Worn spark plugs, gas, etc... I have never felt such a noticeable difference like you have. I go from 5w-30 and 15w-50 and its a small difference on cold starts but feels the same when the engine is warmed up.

[IVM3]

Originally Posted by jd__m4

I've used a couple diff for the S55, just changed mine recently with Valvoline 5W-40 which carries the LL-01 cert. It's ~$50 for 7qts from Amazon.

Good tip as I hadn't looked at valvoline and see that it's only $24 bucks for a 5 quart jug at Walmart. I've been using liquimoly leightlauf from fcpeuro:

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...27854445kt1-lm

[SCS55]

Originally Posted by Musashi

Molygen in not performant, nor approved nor recommended by BMW for any BMW engine. Leichtlauf is, as is Fuchs and Motul. Consequently it does not work well.

I'm sorry, now you lost me with broad based statements of "Molygen is piss poor for a BMW." and "consequently it does not work well."
Based on my supplied data, I beg to differ. I have UOA Molygen reports on a M54, N52, and N55 as well.

[fiveohwblow]

Originally Posted by luthers4

Safe to use Mobil 1 0-40 Euro Formula in S55? I've searched and can't find an answer. Have 2- 5 qt jugs left over from my 911.

It is all I use, and have used, for over 10 years. You are more than fine.

[PhatLyfe]

Pennzoil was on sale last week at Walmart with a $10 or $12 rebate if you purchase a 5qt for $22.99. I missed out would have been perfect for my frequent Camry oil changes

[kumkeet]

What's the 'stock' engine oil that BMW uses?

[Bunnny]

I use Amsoil 0W-40 european synthetic.
I recently just changed my oil to put it in, from the BMW stuff, which I wasn't very happy with. There's lots of gunk that gets built up with it, and there's no reason this should be happening unless the oil quality is crap, and it doesnt clean while lubricating.
My dad has a buddy who put 300k km's on his tractor trailer using just Amsoil, no changes, just topped it up and changed the filter at 200k. They took the engine apart at 350k, and found not a thing wrong with it. It's bearings were fine, there was no sludge build up, and the lifters functioned like they were new. Obviously there's a difference in performance, but I'm gonna see how far an oil change on this stuff will take me.

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by Bunnny

I use Amsoil 0W-40 european synthetic.
I recently just changed my oil to put it in, from the BMW stuff, which I wasn't very happy with. There's lots of gunk that gets built up with it, and there's no reason this should be happening unless the oil quality is crap, and it doesnt clean while lubricating.
My dad has a buddy who put 300k km's on his tractor trailer using just Amsoil, no changes, just topped it up and changed the filter at 200k. They took the engine apart at 350k, and found not a thing wrong with it. It's bearings were fine, there was no sludge build up, and the lifters functioned like they were new. Obviously there's a difference in performance, but I'm gonna see how far an oil change on this stuff will take me.

Factory oil is good stuff. Wont more or less make a difference at all versus amsoil. Actually factory oil has low Noack which is good for less “gunk” buildup.

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by kumkeet

What's the 'stock' engine oil that BMW uses?

Currently factory BMW TPT oil is shell/pennzoil gas to liquid (GTL) oil but not the same as over the counter in store pennzoils.