GetBMWParts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-13-2018, 09:17 AM   #1
Throttleblip
First Lieutenant
Throttleblip's Avatar
No_Country
423
Rep
394
Posts

Drives: BMW M4 ZCP 2016
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: usa

iTrader: (0)

M4 CS vs M4 ZCP Torque Curve

This difference between both models are rarely covered in the CS reviews/comparisons, but for me, as a previous M4ZCP owner, this is one of the primary reasons I upgraded to to the CS. In the graphs one can clearly see that BMW has made the torque delivery of the CS more linear (similar to the Porsche 991.2 turbo torque delivery) which builds as RPMs and HP increases. As few reviewers have stated, this change makes the CS more manageable at the limit and makes it feel more "naturally aspirated" than the ZCP setup. Thought it was interesting to share this difference in torque delivery between both models. Graphs below:
Attached Images
  
Appreciate 0
      05-13-2018, 09:22 AM   #2
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Looking at the graphs, I'd say that the CS torque delivery is in fact LESS linear.

But I understand what you mean.

Also, I am not sure where the data for the graphs comes from, but the CS' and CP's torque and power curves shown do not match the ones published by BMW: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1376759
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 2
stormlv929.00
      05-13-2018, 09:27 AM   #3
Throttleblip
First Lieutenant
Throttleblip's Avatar
No_Country
423
Rep
394
Posts

Drives: BMW M4 ZCP 2016
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: usa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Looking at the graphs, I'd say that the CS torque delivery is in fact LESS linear.

But I understand what you mean.
Hahaha...yes, literally, less "linear" hahaha
Appreciate 0
      05-13-2018, 09:28 AM   #4
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
Hahaha...yes, literally, less "linear" hahaha
I was also still editing my post. These power-torque curves seem at odds with what BMW publishes for the CP and CS. Something is off (it says "approximation").
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black

Last edited by CanAutM3; 05-13-2018 at 10:10 AM..
Appreciate 0
      05-13-2018, 09:31 AM   #5
Throttleblip
First Lieutenant
Throttleblip's Avatar
No_Country
423
Rep
394
Posts

Drives: BMW M4 ZCP 2016
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: usa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
Hahaha...yes, literally, less "linear" hahaha
I was also still editing my post. These power-torque curves seem at odds with what BMW publishes for the CP and CS. Something is off (it says "estimated").
Got them from: http://www.automobile-catalog.com/bi...ckage_dct.html

It could very well be that something is off... not sure
Appreciate 0
      05-13-2018, 09:35 AM   #6
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
Got them from: http://www.automobile-catalog.com/bi...ckage_dct.html

It could very well be that something is off... not sure
According to the BMW charts, the CS makes more torque than the CP from 2400RPM to 7300RPM, which is not what is shown on these charts. It is only below 2400RPM that BMW has tamed the torque output.

Further, according to dyno plots from Evolve, it appears BMW have also tamed the low RPM torque output for all F8X with a software update.
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black

Last edited by CanAutM3; 05-17-2018 at 07:57 AM..
Appreciate 0
      05-13-2018, 09:46 AM   #7
Throttleblip
First Lieutenant
Throttleblip's Avatar
No_Country
423
Rep
394
Posts

Drives: BMW M4 ZCP 2016
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: usa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
Got them from: http://www.automobile-catalog.com/bi...ckage_dct.html

It could very well be that something is off... not sure
According to the BMW charts, the CS makes more torque than the CP from 2400RPM to 7300RPM, which is not what is shown on these charts. It is only below 2400RPM that they have tamed the torque output.

Further, according to dyno plots from Evolve, it appears BMW have also tamed the low RPM torque output for all F8X with a software update.
Couldn't find the torque curve of the ZCP in the chart from your thread
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      05-13-2018, 09:58 AM   #8
Throttleblip
First Lieutenant
Throttleblip's Avatar
No_Country
423
Rep
394
Posts

Drives: BMW M4 ZCP 2016
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: usa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
Got them from: http://www.automobile-catalog.com/bi...ckage_dct.html

It could very well be that something is off... not sure
According to the BMW charts, the CS makes more torque than the CP from 2400RPM to 7300RPM, which is not what is shown on these charts. It is only below 2400RPM that they have tamed the torque output.

Further, according to dyno plots from Evolve, it appears BMW have also tamed the low RPM torque output for all F8X with a software update.
Couldn't find the torque curve of the ZCP in the chart from your thread
The graph I posted for the CS (at least the top of the torque curve) seems to be correct from BMW specs 600nm from 4000-5380rpm
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      05-13-2018, 10:02 AM   #9
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
Couldn't find the torque curve of the ZCP in the chart from your thread
Look at the power curves, if the CS makes more power than the CP at a given RPM, it inherently makes more torque.
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 0
      05-13-2018, 10:05 AM   #10
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
The graph I posted for the CS (at least the top of the torque curve) seems to be correct from BMW specs 600nm from 4000-5380rpm
Sorry to say, but no it is not correct. In the chart from my thread (which is the official BMW chart), in CS tune the S55 makes ~580N-m at 2400 RPM, which is more than the 550N-m of the base and CP tunes. Your graphs show the CS making less torque at that RPM. They also underestimate the torque above 5400RPM. The only portion they got right is the 4000-5380 peak torque plateau. The rest of the curve is off.
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black

Last edited by CanAutM3; 05-13-2018 at 10:19 AM..
Appreciate 0
      05-13-2018, 11:56 AM   #11
Throttleblip
First Lieutenant
Throttleblip's Avatar
No_Country
423
Rep
394
Posts

Drives: BMW M4 ZCP 2016
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: usa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
The graph I posted for the CS (at least the top of the torque curve) seems to be correct from BMW specs 600nm from 4000-5380rpm
Sorry to say, but no it is not correct. In the chart from my thread (which is the official BMW chart), in CS tune the S55 makes ~580N-m at 2400 RPM, which is more than the 550N-m of the base and CP tunes. Your graphs show the CS making less torque at that RPM. They also underestimate the torque above 5400RPM. The only portion they got right is the 4000-5380 peak torque plateau. The rest of the curve is off.
Your right that the graph I posted of the CS initially in the OP isn't the official one, I checked, the correct one is the one you posted which I'm attaching below. But still, the peak torque for the ZCP of 550nm is reached and maintained from 1850 to 5500 RPM. From my understanding, this means from the official CS graph below that at 1850RPM the CS makes aprox. 370nm of torque (less than the ZCP of 550nm @1850RPM). The CS only reaches the ZCPs peak torque of 550nm until 2300RPM aprox. So, there is a difference in that the CS reaches higher torque figures until later in the initial stages of RPM range than the ZCP . I'm guessing that this is why some reviewers have said it is more manageable and less spikey when you start leaning on the throttle after the apex of a curve. Anyways, thanks... this discussion has made some questions I had clearer.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2018, 04:54 PM   #12
Throttleblip
First Lieutenant
Throttleblip's Avatar
No_Country
423
Rep
394
Posts

Drives: BMW M4 ZCP 2016
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: usa

iTrader: (0)

Joe Achilles reviews the M3CS and mentioned how linear power/torque delivery feels @4:50 aprox

Appreciate 0
      05-31-2018, 10:08 AM   #13
MWM4ZCP
New Member
44
Rep
15
Posts

Drives: M4ZCP
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Switzerland

iTrader: (0)

Was on a dyno yesterday with my M4CS the only mod is the MPE, results are as follow, data are not corrected with EWG......
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 2
CanAutM321104.50
      05-31-2018, 01:35 PM   #14
Throttleblip
First Lieutenant
Throttleblip's Avatar
No_Country
423
Rep
394
Posts

Drives: BMW M4 ZCP 2016
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: usa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MWM4ZCP View Post
Was on a dyno yesterday with my M4CS the only mod is the MPE, results are as follow, data are not corrected with EWG......
Seems more "linear"
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2018, 10:28 AM   #15
bimmerfrk
Lieutenant
bimmerfrk's Avatar
United_States
583
Rep
534
Posts

Drives: Ferrari Red F83
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tristate Area

iTrader: (0)

Bootmod3 and it wont make difference. More torque than both. Car equals beast mode.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2021, 11:52 AM   #16
marconi118
Major
94
Rep
1,180
Posts

Drives: 06/07 e93 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: europe

iTrader: (0)

Will bootmod3 restore the full torque at 1750rpm like the older m4 zcp software?

Or once updated there is no way to restore full torque at 1750rpm?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:05 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST