Carbon brakes durability for a trackday car?

[USSEnterprise]

Hello everyone,

I am about to assume the lease on an F80 M3 CS that has CCBs.

• The car currently only has <6k street miles on it so hardly any wear on the brakes yet.
• This will be my trackday car and will see about 20 trackdays at an advanced pace before the lease is up and it gets turned back into BMW.
• Most of those trackdays will be on R-compound tires and aggressive race pads
• These track days are on road courses in Texas, winter temps are high 60s and summer temps will be high 90s (we run early in the day in summer and finish by noon but still its Texas).

Those with personal experience tracking a car with CCBs, how well do the rotors hold up to track work? I have heard CCBs are more durable and wear more slowly than steel rotors, but I DO NOT want to destroy them and be left with an $8k-$10k bill when the lease ends. Depending on what feedback I get, I am prepared to swap them out for steel rotors.

Looking for personal feedback from folks with track miles on CCBs, not general guesses. Thanks a lot!

[Gomeler]

Track them a few times, see what you think. I wasn't overly impressed with the CCB + OEM pad. You could then weigh the rotors after a season and see how much carbon you cooked off, and guess how many more days you'd get out of them. I don't know how thorough BMW is on measuring stuff on a lease return.

M2C rotors + CCB calipers + race pads + some cooling is cheap and quite capable. AP racing calipers/rotors is the recommended big money route. I went AP racing, and I've been absolutely thrilled by them. Tossed some 997 GT3 brake ducts ziptied to my front LCAs and zero issues.

[SYT_Shadow]

I've gone through ccbs. I recon they lasted less than a proper bbk rotor.

If you're a fast driver forget about using them. Swap to m2c rotors and race pads and call it a day

[CanAutM3]

You should a little there are plenty of thread on the topic...


For a street driven car, the CCB will likely outlive the car itself. However, if you plan on tracking the car more than a couple of time, CCB are not for you. At the high temperatures seen on track, the carbon fibres inside the matrix of the CCB oxidize (burn) away very rapidly. That's why CCB rotors are weighed to assess wear instead of being measured for thickness. CCB rotors do not last any longer than iron rotors on track, and may even wear faster. Further, CCB pads also wear faster than good track pads for iron rotors and cost a little fortune. CCB are simply cost prohibitive to use on track for no meaningful performance advantage.

If I were you, I would swap the CCB rotors for the M2C optional rotors and pair them with good track pads. Save the CCB rotors for when it is time to sell your car.

[Mospeada]

yea what these guys are saying. m2c rotors are heavy and expensive. hard to change pads too with those calipers. cooling is a big issue in these cars.

[RSXDC5]

I have CCB and track, now with race pads and r comps and mcs suspension.

Your front rotors will need to be retired and saved after 3 to 5 track days depending on how hot u get them. If you install some custom brake ducting you can stretch their life. I retired my front CCB from track work at about 50% wear via the indicators on the rotor. Replaced with Girodisc 2-piece racing rotors (iron) & EBC RP-X pads. Girodisc recently released their rear rotors as well. Hope that insight helps!

[NYG]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You should a little there are plenty of thread on the topic...


For a street driven car, the CCB will likely outlive the car itself. However, if you plan on tracking the car more than a couple of time, CCB are not for you. At the high temperatures seen on track, the carbon fibres inside the matrix of the CCB oxidize (burn) away very rapidly. That's why CCB rotors are weighed to assess wear instead of being measured for thickness. CCB rotors do not last any longer than iron rotors on track, and may even wear faster. Further, CCB pads also wear faster than good track pads for iron rotors and cost a little fortune. CCB are simply cost prohibitive to use on track for no meaningful performance advantage.

If I were you, I would swap the CCB rotors for the M2C optional rotors and pair them with good track pads. Save the CCB rotors for when it is time to sell your car.

This ^

Metallic pads on iron rotors are still superior to carbon ceramic for performance use (which people often think is the same as carbon-carbon brakes that F1 cars have)

There are advantages to CCM but in terms of stopping power and value, you're flushing hard earned money down the toilet if you're using CCM for regular track use. A big brake kit with a metallic pad and airflow will outperform it every time.

[nicknaz]

My $.02 would be to save it in the box for resale and switch to steels

[White340]

Are they still charging so much for them because of cost of manufacturing or is it just for pure profit?

I understand it cost a lot to manufacture these but by now I would think they should be able to produce it for cheaper with technological advances. At 8-9k I don't know why you would want these. I can see people paying 3-4K for them though.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by White340

Are they still charging so much for them because of cost of manufacturing or is it just for pure profit?

I understand it cost a lot to manufacture these but by now I would think they should be able to produce it for cheaper with technological advances. At 8-9k I don't know why you would want these. I can see people paying 3-4K for them though.

It's about a 3 week process.

[SCKOMS]

Does your lease allow for the car to be operated on track? When I leased my NSX it was specifically prohibited.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by SCKOMS

Does your lease allow for the car to be operated on track? When I leased my NSX it was specifically prohibited.

Most car companies will specifically mention not to use the car on a race track in the owners manual. Even my buddies McLaren manual says it. Porsche manuals mention something along the lines of "check with your dealership on current guidelines."

One of the things I love about the Vette. The owners manual includes a track prep guide and all sorts of components (brake ducts, etc) to install prior to going to the track.

[FormulaMMM]

My experience with them. (Still have not weighed.) https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1731307

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by White340

Are they still charging so much for them because of cost of manufacturing or is it just for pure profit?

I understand it cost a lot to manufacture these but by now I would think they should be able to produce it for cheaper with technological advances. At 8-9k I don't know why you would want these. I can see people paying 3-4K for them though.

8-9k is the cost of the option when buying the car. Replacing CCB as part of maintenance is nearly double that amount . Nuts, for 10~20 track days

[White340]

Originally Posted by NYG

It's about a 3 week process.

I just watched a video of it and it does seem like a lot. But I suppose if they sold more of them they could automate the process a bit more and lower the cost. This happens with all technology at some point.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by White340

I just watched a video of it and it does seem like a lot. But I suppose if they sold more of them they could automate the process a bit more and lower the cost. This happens with all technology at some point.

They've made strides in fabrication processes but the molding and pyrolysis process is a big hit in the scope of production rate.

[USSEnterprise]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. Based on what I am hearing, I will do 2-3 trackdays and set them aside. I have decided to order giro discs & RSL29s to replace after 3 track days. The CCB's bigger calipers (6 piston front, 4 rear) seem to limit pad availability compared to base model calipers, but Pagids are showing available.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

Thanks everyone for your feedback. Based on what I am hearing, I will do 2-3 trackdays and set them aside. I have decided to order giro discs & RSL29s to replace after 3 track days. The CCB's bigger calipers (6 piston front, 4 rear) seem to limit pad availability compared to base model calipers, but Pagids are showing available.

I'm not experienced with this but make sure the caliper bracket will work. I can't imagine there isn't a Ferodo or a PFC pad available.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

Thanks everyone for your feedback. Based on what I am hearing, I will do 2-3 trackdays and set them aside. I have decided to order giro discs & RSL29s to replace after 3 track days. The CCB's bigger calipers (6 piston front, 4 rear) seem to limit pad availability compared to base model calipers, but Pagids are showing available.

Just a word of warning, the pitting shared in the link above occurred after just ~15 dry sessions. Wouldn't say I was particularly hard on the brakes in all of those sessions. If you're looking to maintain original appearance, definitely go easy.

[4play]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Just a word of warning, the pitting shared in the link above occurred after just ~15 dry sessions. Wouldn't say I was particularly hard on the brakes in all of those sessions. If you're looking to maintain original appearance, definitely go easy.

Did you ever get a chance to weigh yours?

Asking because I have some similar looking pitting on my wear indicators and the rotors are still significantly (190g) above minimum weight. And I thoroughly cleaned them to make sure it wasn't pad dust/debris bumping up the weight.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by 4play

Did you ever get a chance to weigh yours?

Asking because I have some similar looking pitting on my wear indicators and the rotors are still significantly (190g) above minimum weight. And I thoroughly cleaned them to make sure it wasn't pad dust/debris bumping up the weight.

No, probably won't have a chance until next spring and will report back then. They might still be good on weight. But if OP's intention is to avoid the appearance of destruction or diminished value, yeah...

On top of rotor degradation concerns, there's the accelerated pad wear issue, as we're discussing in the other thread. M CCB just isn't an advanced pace track duty system.

[Bon F80]

i'm planning on replacing my CCB rotors with M2C's iron rotors before the next track day season. anyone can confirm pls if the boosters have to be changed and coding has to be done too? i've come across a few threads and there doesn't seem to be a conclusion