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      11-25-2014, 11:55 AM   #1
Kartelli
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Hate the Passive Suspension

Morning Guys,

Venting some frustration, I'm absolutely hating the passive suspension on the M3 for daily driving purposes. Coming from an 06 STi, with the worst dampening/spring rates available, I'd rate this car the second worst daily driving suspension in my history of vehicles (z06 Corvette, Audi S4 e92 M3, C63 AMG, GTR). The car becomes very unsettled after more than a few road imperfections, it feels like the front and back slam into every bump in the road transferring the feedback into the cabin. I've adjusted tire PSI on the stock 19's, and now running the 18" winter setup, there has been no improvement. My main frustration is with the micro oscillations/vibrations produced by unsettled roads, makes for a nauseating experience. My 09 M3 had the perfect factory (passive) suspension out of any car I've had. Test driving an adaptive suspension demo unit, sales guy convinced me it was not necessary.

Taking the car back to BMW, their analysis said drive the car for 2000-3000 kms (mine has 700 kms on it now) to let the suspension break in and soften up. It would improve by 25% after the break in period. Would you agree this needs to happen?

Sean@PSI has been trying to come up with a solution to help me out, he recommends the KW V3 Coilover setup. Can any KW V3 owners chime in on their experience with a coil over setup to dial in exactly what your goals were? I've always done power mods to my vehicles, never touching suspension setups, this is new territory for me. I'm not looking for a Cadillac feel, just something that can make daily driving the best it can be.

I love this car to death, minus the oem passive suspension

Last edited by Kartelli; 11-25-2014 at 12:20 PM..
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      11-25-2014, 12:07 PM   #2
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I would not expect the kw v3 to ride better than your current setup. personally, it sounds like something is wrong with your car or you bought the wrong type of car
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      11-25-2014, 12:31 PM   #3
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Kenny, I don't think he is talking about harshness necessarily, if I understand it correctly he is feeling compounding chassis frequencies between front and rear.

If I am understanding it correctly, the oscillations you mention may be due to possible mismatch of motion ratios front to rear, although it is hard to imagine BMW doing that, no one road surface can be predicted and driver preferences also vary widely. If those oscillations are as bad and annoying as you mention, (guessing here) one possible solution may be changing, up rating, the front spring rates.
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      11-25-2014, 12:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
The oscillations you mention may be due to possible mismatch of motion rations front to rear, although it is hard to imagine BMW doing that, no one road surface can be predicted and driver preferences also vary widely. If those oscillations are as bad and annoying as you mention, (guessing here) one possible solution may be changing, up rating, the front spring rates.
My first thought is the spring rates are not 100% matched to the dampening of the shocks, I can't see BMW messing up here either.
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      11-25-2014, 01:44 PM   #5
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Hi Kartelli, I have the passive suspension on my F80 and had it on my E90 M3 as well. The F80 rides signficantly stiffer, the solid mounted rear suspension can be felt and the spring rates seem higher. I love it though since I thought the E90 was just on the soft side of excellent.

The oscillations or potential poor match of springs-dampers is foreign to me though. There's one jolt per hit as it is with good matching I haven't felt any after oscillitions. Are you sure it's not just bad roads with frequent uneven areas causing you to feel frequent re-bounds as it is working the uneven areas? The suspension is communicative but IMO also very planted.
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      11-25-2014, 03:36 PM   #6
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Weird. Are you sure they removed the spring spacers?

My car, with the passive suspension, does not ride poorly, but it is stiff. It rides way better than both the 2014 GT-R and 2015 GT-R with the softened spring rates. I think something is wrong - it'd be really sad if they missed the spring spacers.

Is this over a particular stretch of road? Or all the time?
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      11-25-2014, 03:40 PM   #7
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It doesn't surprise me that its much stiffer/harsh that your STi but worse than GTR? Wow. Maybe you need to get that checked out.
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      11-25-2014, 05:15 PM   #8
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Update: Dropped the car off at BMW again, a test drive with a flock of BMW staff, car is in for inspection with the head tech.

Solstice: Thanks for your feedback! I showed the oscellations on one of our arterial roadways (100 km/hr speed limits). Imagine the front and the back of the car having different rebounds, causing an oscillation movement in the cabin = motion sickness for me.

Kitw: Its in for inspection again, I'm hoping its something that simple. Its on all roads, except for smooth/track like conditions

Andrew115: Interesting perspective, I had a 12 GTR Black Series (traded it in for the M3, needed something more practical) for about a year. Under the 3 edc settings, none were as rough as the M3 in the current state. I found the GTR to be quite compliant unless in RRR mode, with the 20" rims.
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      11-29-2014, 06:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartelli View Post
Update: Dropped the car off at BMW again, a test drive with a flock of BMW staff, car is in for inspection with the head tech.
So what's the verdict?
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      11-30-2014, 09:50 PM   #10
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Dealer found nothing wrong. Just have to accept it for what it is, hopefully with 10k kms it will soften abit as the car settles. Hopefully with some R&D some aftermarket solution will be available.
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      11-30-2014, 10:00 PM   #11
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I too think my M is stiff, but doable. I'm waiting on my KW V3s anyways.
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      11-30-2014, 10:08 PM   #12
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Maybe get a 3 series?














Sorry, someone had to say it out loud.
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      11-30-2014, 10:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartelli View Post
Dealer found nothing wrong. Just have to accept it for what it is, hopefully with 10k kms it will soften abit as the car settles. Hopefully with some R&D some aftermarket solution will be available.
Sorry to hear that. Mine does not induce nausea in the driver or passengers. I often have my wife and two kids in the car and no one has been sick and we've done 8h trips with just short stops. Seems to me something is up with your car, it's just not normal for it to induce nausea or have longitudinal oscillations. The suspension is in my top 2 functions overall, it was first but the motor is gaining traction every day, it's quite spectacular for an FI engine.
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      11-30-2014, 11:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Maybe get a 3 series?














Sorry, someone had to say it out loud.
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      11-30-2014, 11:55 PM   #15
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Does your dealer have another m3 or m4 with same suspension you can drive to compare? I'm leaning towards the car being per spec and it's just not suitable for you.

My m4 with adaptive suspension and h&r sports is fine to me. So is my '13 gtr with swift spec r springs. But I'm well used to stiff riding cars. While others may find my cars to be too rough.

What year z06 did you have? I had a c5z and c6z. Both lowered on springs only. Neither offered magnetic ride. I was fine with ride quality of both.
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      12-01-2014, 12:05 AM   #16
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Thanks for the input guys, I'm of the opinion the passive suspension is biased towards the performance side, where as the e92 from my past was biased towards comfort side. Just the way it is. Will learn to live with it.
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      12-01-2014, 12:07 AM   #17
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You might want to explore BMW's newest Yankee Tank lineup, the 7 Series.
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      12-01-2014, 12:08 AM   #18
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Z06 and the gtr were the 2 best summer cars I've ever owned for various reasons. Z06 takes balls to drive hard, and the gtr was just special all around.
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      12-01-2014, 02:51 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartelli View Post
Thanks for the input guys, I'm of the opinion the passive suspension is biased towards the performance side, where as the e92 from my past was biased towards comfort side. Just the way it is. Will learn to live with it.
You really should look into some coilovers with adjustable dampening. Dampers usually have a dial to turn, from comfort to firm. They will ride way better than stock.
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      12-01-2014, 11:48 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
You really should look into some coilovers with adjustable dampening. Dampers usually have a dial to turn, from comfort to firm. They will ride way better than stock.
No way. No aftermarket suspension will ever come close to the stock ride quality - no one has the hours into suspension design that the original manufacturer does.

My KW v3s ride AMAZINGLY well for aftermarket coilovers but they are not some magic carpet ride. There is certainly room to make the car handle better in terms of damping and body roll, but it is not going to absorb bumps better. Good coilovers not be much worse, but it's always a compromise.
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      12-01-2014, 11:50 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartelli View Post
Thanks for the input guys, I'm of the opinion the passive suspension is biased towards the performance side, where as the e92 from my past was biased towards comfort side. Just the way it is. Will learn to live with it.
The passive suspension is similar in damping/harshness to sport on the adjustable but will ride a bit worse due to the adaptives actually doing something. Sounds like you should have gotten that option. I find the passive suspension to ride just fine - it's certainly a bit stiff over small bumps, but not uncomfortably so.

Ride quality is subjective, especially because most of us aren't driving on the same streets as you are, but I've ridden in early GT-Rs and even the 2015 rides a lot worse than the M3 with the passive setup.
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      12-01-2014, 11:52 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
No way. No aftermarket suspension will ever come close to the stock ride quality - no one has the hours into suspension design that the original manufacturer does.

My KW v3s ride AMAZINGLY well for aftermarket coilovers but they are not some magic carpet ride. There is certainly room to make the car handle better in terms of damping and body roll, but it is not going to absorb bumps better. Good coilovers not be much worse, but it's always a compromise.
this

people are drinking the vendor Kool-Aid when they say stuff like that.

unfortunately, people believe them, put these parts on their car, justify it to themselves for a while, then ultimately remove and sell the parts
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