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10-17-2019, 01:37 PM | #23 |
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No, I’m not enthused about their direction.
I grew up idolizing the same models as you. E36 then E46 and E39. Those cars were imperfect, but this was BMW’s golden age IMO, which evolved and concluded with the E9X. The current M2 is a poor substitute for an E46. Sorry, just no. The F90 is amazing in many ways. Can’t hold a candle to the character, appeal, fricking magic of the E39. You always adjust to speed, acceleration. The body and mind become acclimated. That’s the fundamental error of BMW’s full buy into the horsepower war. I’m numb to it. Honestly, I don’t care if the next M5 has 850 hp. Soon enough everything will accelerate to 60 in <3 seconds. I think that M division should have checked out of the horsepower war long ago. Balanced emissions requirements with EV’s and hybrids across their base model range, and focused on building naturally-aspirated, special cars. That WAS M division. That’s their core identity – I remember, I was there, they’re not fooling me… It would have been possible. Porsche GT division is managing. How much would I give for a slightly modernized (DCT) version of an E46 M3 CSL? E39 M5 (no adjustments necessary)? An S65 with ~500 hp that revs to 9k in combination with cylinder deactivation and F8X level chassis? But they’re obviously headed toward all-wheel drive turbos and hybridization. Cars that are bigger every gen (WHY?). And a design concept/look that to me says, “we’ve run out of ideas…” They’re not going to pull a rabbit out of a hat. The new M5 is a preview, just as the E60 was a preview for the E9X. Predict the upcoming M3/M4 will be massively capable, obnoxiously styled (apparently), and that’s about it. Very possible that my BMW stable remains unchanged (E90 and GTS), and I move on. Keep an eye out for clean, low mileage E46’s and E39’s. I check out EnthusiastAuto hazardously often. My heart and mind are drawn toward older gen M cars and Porsche GT cars nowadays. And I appreciate what the Americans are doing. I’ve almost tuned out of BMW’s developments. I’d like to be convinced otherwise, but the formula is the formula. They'll never get close to the M cars I idolized and enjoyed with the current formula.
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10-17-2019, 02:33 PM | #24 | |
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IMO, for much less cost. It's a cost efficiency issue. |
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10-17-2019, 02:38 PM | #25 | |
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10-17-2019, 03:08 PM | #26 | |
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Beyond that, the GT3 will eventually be a turbo motor too, and at that point you’ll have a similar car to a 2RS which few cars can touch modded or not. |
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10-17-2019, 03:30 PM | #27 |
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The 2 series GC is based upon the new 1 series. The G87 will be a completely different animal with RWD. Probably something like a shrunken G82 with the S58.
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10-17-2019, 03:40 PM | #28 | |
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10-17-2019, 05:27 PM | #29 |
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At least BMW is not putting an I4 Hybrid engine into the new M3/M4 like the route the new C63 "AMG" is going. It's the strict regulations. Otherwise we'd still have V10 M5's.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...ybrid-four-pot
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10-17-2019, 06:28 PM | #30 | |
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oh well. We could all just continue to enjoy cheap lease of non M 3er + sportier cars from other brands |
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10-17-2019, 06:52 PM | #32 | |
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10-17-2019, 07:22 PM | #33 |
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Meh let's just wait until the new car is actually released. 95% of the people complaining will be in one once they are out and all of the sudden their F8x seems dated and slow.
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10-18-2019, 02:27 AM | #34 |
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after seeing the g20 and now the new 2-series... i really can't see how BMW can turn the M versions into anything that i'd want to look at in my garage.
if you want manual + rwd there aren't many options left. You gotta go 718, GT4, 911.. and thats pretty much it. The astons in the price range are dated as hell. The z06 and viper are too brash and have some quality control issues compared to the germans.
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10-18-2019, 05:56 AM | #35 | ||
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If one is looking for a purpose sports car, the M3(4) is not where to look at. I'd also say that if one is looking for a purpose luxury daily driver, the M3(4) is not where to look at either. Regarding price, I also don't agree. When considering inflation, the base price of my F82 in 2014 was quite lower than the base price of my E46 in 2000, and the F82 has much more standard features an amenities. Sure, you can now lux them out with options, but from a base price perspective they actually got cheaper. I do agree that the market demographics for ///M cars has evolved though, where more and more folks are looking at ///M for the ultimate daily driver, which has brought more bias towards luxury and comfort to the base variant. BMW has responded by offering more variations of each ///M model. The CS suits my needs better since it is slightly more focused towards track use. Others will prefer the base or competition variants for their needs.
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10-18-2019, 07:07 AM | #36 | |
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Most of my interaction with BMW's modern lineup at this point is... laughing at it. E.g. 20 years ago, that would be been my go to car. An actually small BMW sedan (something they haven't made for years)? Fuck yes! Can't wait for the high revving, linear, responsive NA engine, rwd, manual trans, and amazing steering feel, in a compact but practical package, with no gimmicks to distract from the driving experience! Instead... it's none of that. Everything, EVERY SINGLE THING, I used to choose BMW for has been removed from the brand. Someone needs to get off the performance numbers train and go back to focusing on driving experience. The numbers are all fast enough that it hasn't actually made for a better driving experience for many years. Until then, I'll maintain and drive my older BMWs till it's illegal to drive your own car (so some company comes to their senses).
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10-18-2019, 08:01 AM | #37 |
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No doubt we sound like old fogeys to the younger gens on here, but I'm with you… I saw that nerdy thing on the homepage and sprinted to the GTS subforum as fast as I could.
If it weren't for the GTS I would have skipped the F8X gen altogether (would have maybe considered a CS too). GTS is an illustration of how extreme they had to go to reintroduce some E46'ness to the experience. FWIW, they did succeed. GTS is the most visceral BMW I've ever driven outside of my buddy's emptied, track-prepped E36 M3. But now with them engineering the next gen as turbo AND awd, more size, more tech, I think it's another turning point. They've fully checked out of the fundamental M formula. I don't need to "wait and see." I have plenty of road and track time in the new M5, and again, the formula is the formula. They're not magicians. I never wanted a GT-R. Here's an anecdote -- My still very rad mother has driven 335 variants since 2006. If you ask her which was her favorite, it's the original (E90). No hesitation. She uses words & phrases like "just seemed more together and involving," "tight," "responsive," "active." So, that's her perception, whilst driving to and from the antique show. She put 100k+ miles on that E90, persevered through I don't know how many failed fuel pumps.
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10-18-2019, 08:17 AM | #38 | |
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She didn't buy another BMW.
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10-18-2019, 08:53 AM | #39 | |
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10-18-2019, 09:03 AM | #40 |
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Nah the Z3 was so much rawer. Drop my M4 motor in the Z3 I used to have and it would be so much fun.
The new Z4/Supra is so big they should of thrown a back seat into it.
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10-18-2019, 09:51 AM | #41 | |
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Agreed on the Zupra, too expensive and no 6MT means no go for me. |
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10-18-2019, 10:12 AM | #42 | |
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-The Z3M interior is way better than the Z4M interior -The Z3M (coupe vs coupe) has a much more usable trunk area -The Z3M is significantly smaller, and feels more playful as a result -Subjective, but I think the Z3M is better looking car Z4/Supra holds zero appeal to me-- turbos, automatic, eps, idrive crap. More of the same modern BMW crap squished into a different shape.
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10-22-2019, 09:14 AM | #43 | |
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Unfortunately the older car enthusiasts are getting replaced by a newer breed that wants what BMW (and others) are selling. They are already being replaced by a generation that wants nothing to do with driving. There are few cars being sold today that you and others like you would actually want to buy (not a newsflash to you I know ), but there are still some interesting rawish cars out there. US manufacturers are doing it, but even the GT350s and SS/ZL1 1LEs are heavier cars. In Fords case they have serious quality/reliability issues. I'll find out in a year if I'm going down the same road with GM. Miatas are fun, but just a two seater and need more power IMO. Same with some Alfas, but everyone knows their issues except for some fanboys. Then you get into the exotics which is where BMW used to fill in the lower niche. Porsche has always been overpriced and everytime I finally think about pulling the trigger on a 911, I drive one and find them too good, too isolating and not a lot of good drama. A GT4 would be awesome, but again two seater. The M4 CS actually is a really fun good car, (I know turbos), but it would of been even more fun with a MT, MP HAS and better steel brakes standard. I'm sure the GTS is a riot, but again no manual and too extreme for people that need back seats etc. Also BMW effed up by originally way over pricing them so we'll see if they develop these same versions of the G series. BMWs sweet spot is a manual M2 comp now IMO and maybe M2 CS, but I'm guessing it will only come with a DCT. So yeah, I can definitely see where you are coning fun as there are a lot of great cars out there, ut few truly interesting involving ones to drive. Especially at a non exotic price point. |
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10-22-2019, 09:46 AM | #44 |
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I guess I'm going on a different direction since I decided to get rid of F80 and get into M2C since manual is my objective.
If I wasn't such a diehard 6MT person, the new Charger Widebody scat pack would be my #1 choice. That sounds and looks are amazing for what they are asking. |
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