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View Poll Results: Will Donald Trump be Impeached or will this blowback on Biden
Orange Trump bad. Trump gone. 82 32.03%
Trump Trump-umphant. 88 34.38%
Inclusive 18 7.03%
Biden C4'd to oblivion. 74 28.91%
Biden grows in strength and gets shot in the arm for nomination. 10 3.91%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 256. You may not vote on this poll

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      12-20-2019, 07:25 PM   #5061
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But mah impeaches

Bloke needs to do stand up when he's out in 2028


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      12-20-2019, 07:53 PM   #5062
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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Majority by 1
Not sure where you got that?

https://www.periodicalpress.senate.gov/senate-breakdown/
OK So I was off by 2. Boo-fucking-hoo
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      12-20-2019, 07:57 PM   #5063
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I agree he does dumb despicable stuff. And I totally get that some hate him.

But many of us can hate the man and still be happy what he has done for the country. Thats the problem with many many libs. They don't seem to be able to reason objectively.
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      12-20-2019, 08:20 PM   #5064
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OK So I was off by 2. Boo-fucking-hoo
This whole conversation flew right over your head. Good job!
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      12-20-2019, 09:50 PM   #5065
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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
OK So I was off by 2. Boo-fucking-hoo
Well they need 2/3 support to have the votes needed to remove a president so technical the Democrats/Independent need all 47 votes plus 21 GOP defectors to succeed. Consider the partisanship conducted by the house and how weak the case put forward is there no chance in hell Trump will be convicted and remove which means he innocent.
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      12-21-2019, 08:24 AM   #5066
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I agree he does dumb despicable stuff. And I totally get that some hate him.

But many of us can hate the man and still be happy what he has done for the country. Thats the problem with many many libs. They don't seem to be able to reason objectively.
I get that. I hate him and sometimes he does things that I like and I credit him for that. Credit where it is due for better or for worse.

My biggest beef with Trump is his willingness to let special interests run portions of the government in ways that are completely corrupt and run opposite to the stated mission of that agency. The cabinet picks have been absolutely abysmal. Most of the people that ran against him in his primary have either been put into roles where they have no clue what they are doing, know what they are doing and it is the opposite of the mission, or used nominations and then publicly humiliated them with it.

Honestly, what he did to Chris Christie and Mittens Romney was pretty damn funny and humiliating. I guess points to Trump on that one.

The anti science stance disgusts me though. Pandering to religious groups while shunning science is probably the thing that repulses me the most about modern conservatism.

Maybe now that the house is done with impeachment we will actual get some work done in Washington. I am perfectly fine with the senate acquitting him as that is the way the power is. I do want to hear from Mulvaney, Bolton, and I have no idea how Rick Perry has weasled his way out of the discussion. I am perfectly fine with putting Biden, Biden, and Schiff on the stand in exchange for the three I listed.

As far as the whistleblower, leave him out of it. No need to get this guy killed by a nutjob for speaking out in the proper fashion according to US laws.
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      12-21-2019, 08:33 AM   #5067
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Interesting article from the National Post, Can anybody make sense of the impeachment

Rex Murphy: Anyone who can make sense of the impeachment circus deserves a medal

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex..._autoplay=true

Moose, huge lumbering creatures with the bulk of mid-sized elephants, can prance and scamper though thick woods and alder-matted terrain as if they were fields of willows and dandelions. God designs the creature for the task, I suppose.

But I wonder if the Creator gave thought to the birth of any creature who could, even at a mild pace, wander through the contradictious, tangled and weed-choked path to the Democratic leadership’s grand impeachment theatrics of this week? The denouement of this grand assault on the American polity (which is how I view it) is strange on the way to being full on crazy. If there are threads of logic to the entire three-year carnival, keener eyes than mine must find them; and if anyone, anywhere can make sense of Nancy Pelosi’s final and ultimate manoeuvre, reach the Nobel Prize Committee — have them melt all their medals, for all their awards, and fashion one huge medallion, and give it to that person.

If there are threads of logic to the entire three-year carnival, keener eyes than mine must find them

First, I will repeat the assertion I made earlier this week. You cannot move from an accusation that the president of the United States sought and obtained the co-operation of the Russian tyrant Vladimir Putin as the predicate of your attempt to remove him from office, carry that for three years as an absolute ground for getting rid of him, and then turn on a dime and downshift to vague and trivial charges of abuse of power and obstruction of a Democratic Congress. And do so without some full and honest account of why you abandoned allegations of Russian collusion — a treasonous and unprecedented perfidy — so abruptly, as if the two and a half years of obstruction and investigation, once it fell utterly apart, simply didn’t matter anymore.

It reminds me of the Judge Kavanaugh circus. There were accusations of “train rape,” literally charges that the young Brett Kavanaugh supervised and participated in gang rapes of young women. Next to being a serial killer, could any charge be more grave? The accusations came by way of malicious hustler/lawyer Michael Avenatti (currently himself facing charges of fraud and theft). When the vicious absurdity was exposed and dismissed, the press and the politicians almost on the very next day walked away from it as if it never, ever happened. You accuse a nominee to the Supreme Court of your country of being a gang rapist and “snap” within 24 hours it disappears from public comment and official memory.

For three years, three years of talking points, endless TV shows and panels, a blizzard of investigations, newspaper articles and editorials, there was nothing else to say about Donald Trump — from those seeking his impeachment — other than that he was Benedict Arnold redux, a tool of Vladimir Putin, the Manchurian candidate in real life. And then Robert Mueller, the big dog of all the investigations, reports — nah, nothing here. No collusion, no one in the Trump campaign, not Trump — zilch.

The sun rises on a new day and suddenly it’s bribery, or Ukraine, or a telephone call. The impeachment train carries on. Everyone who wanted him gone, who salivated at the very thought, was wrong, wrong on the massive allegation that a U.S. president was under the thumb of a Russian autocrat.

No mind. We have other stuff. Nothing quite so juicy as a quisling in the White House mind you. How so serious a matter as impeachment could jump from a three-year narrative of darkest intrigue to a whole new framing in mere days remains unexplained. It is a dark tangle.

And now this week, when Madam Pelosi and her comrades stagger into the actual impeachment vote — with no Russia, no Ukraine — and having a majority in the House finally get their long-wished for, “historic” articles of impeachment passed, what happens? The eyes of the world are upon her. She carries the vote. Stage one of impeachment has been completed. Well, Speaker Pelosi at the very summit of her triumph then inexplicably, staggeringly, incredibly announces she is not going to send the articles of impeachment to the Senate!

The latter part of this process was all done in hurry and haste because to delay impeachment, to leave Trump in office, was a threat to “national security;” it was a nation-saving emergency to proceed with all possible efficiency. The country was facing “existential” concerns. She wins Impeachmas. And then, bizarrely, without missing a beat, she announces she’s not going to send them to the Senate just now. She’s going to stall the proceedings. There is the Christmas break. Perhaps in January — perhaps, as she responded to one question on Thursday — perhaps not at all. She obstructs the procedures, laid out in the revered Constitution, for this highest of actions, and effectively nullifies all the assertions of urgency and national peril that underwrote the whole impeachment drive. What is this?

Has anyone checked Mount Rushmore lately? Are those stone guardian faces of heroic presidents past turned inward in shame? Are their hands covering their eyes in disgust? Check out the Memorial? Is Lincoln still sitting, Moses-like, in his great marble chair, or has be left the building in hopelessness and disdain over how the great offices of government have become so tawdry?
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      12-21-2019, 08:34 AM   #5068
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      12-21-2019, 08:50 AM   #5069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagamus_NM View Post
I get that. I hate him and sometimes he does things that I like and I credit him for that. Credit where it is due for better or for worst
Fair points. I have not been totally happy with his picks. But he has had good ones in the mix. Pompeo is an example. Barr is another. He used to be respected by the dems.

As far as special interests. Not sure he is worse than others.

I agree with the issue of environment. But I really don't think his actions with cutting regs have hurt. But yes republicans have thus nasty habit of ignoring global warming. But in a sense, it doesn't matter. We have crossed the Rubicon here. It's too late to turn things around.

Another thing you have to admit He is keeping his campaign promises.

But again good discussion. People can disagree without acting like assholes.

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays :cheers:!!
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      12-21-2019, 08:55 AM   #5070
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Fair points. I have not been totally happy with his picks. But he has had good ones in the mix. Pompeo is an example. Barr is another. He used to be respected by the dems.

As far as special interests. Not sure he is worse than others.

I agree with the issue of environment. But I really don't think his actions with cutting regs have hurt. But yes republicans have thus nasty habit of ignoring global warming. But in a sense, it doesn't matter. We have crossed the Rubicon here. It's too late to turn things around.

Another thing you have to admit He is keeping his campaign promises.

But again good discussion. People can disagree without acting like assholes.

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays :cheers:!!

Well, sometimes they can.

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to you, too!
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      12-21-2019, 09:11 AM   #5071
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      12-21-2019, 10:03 AM   #5072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
OK So I was off by 2. Boo-fucking-hoo
Well they need 2/3 support to have the votes needed to remove a president so technical the Democrats/Independent need all 47 votes plus 21 GOP defectors to succeed. Consider the partisanship conducted by the house and how weak the case put forward is there no chance in hell Trump will be convicted and remove which means he innocent.
Well ya, put we're talking about why Pelosi opted not to immediately deliver the articles to the Senate. He suggested that was silly because of the size of GOP majority in the Senate and consequently ruining their holiday wouldn't be a concern

They don't have a huge majority.
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      12-21-2019, 10:09 AM   #5073
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If you have the WSJ, read this:

Washington’s Seven-Layer Fake.
The unreality of Comey and Pelosi’s Washington.


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      12-21-2019, 10:25 AM   #5074
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What anti-science stance? I've not heard him say he thinks the Earth is flat, or the universe revolves around our planet.

Oh, he doesn't think humans effect the Earth's climate to the point that the USA has to pay retributions to the rest of the World for its abhorrent capitalist consumption of the Earth's resources? That's politics, not anti-science. Anti-science is not understanding there are just two genders...
Points.
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      12-21-2019, 10:39 AM   #5075
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Well ya, put we're talking about why Pelosi opted not to immediately deliver the articles to the Senate. He suggested that was silly because of the size of GOP majority in the Senate and consequently ruining their holiday wouldn't be a concern

They don't have a huge majority.
Uh, no. Please let me explain it to you. I suggested it was silly because in just 12 weeks the House put together the crappiest impeachment in the history of this country. They have fervently been saying that Trump is the most evil president in history, and would cause the total destruction of civilization as we know it. And then they put it off till after the holidays... That, my friend, is really, really, really dumb. My point had nothing to do with the majority, only that you suggested Pelosi put it off so that her political rivals would have a nice holiday instead of saving our civilization. I highly doubt that is why she did it. Understand now?
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      12-21-2019, 10:45 AM   #5076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubba View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Well ya, put we're talking about why Pelosi opted not to immediately deliver the articles to the Senate. He suggested that was silly because of the size of GOP majority in the Senate and consequently ruining their holiday wouldn't be a concern

They don't have a huge majority.
Uh, no. Please let me explain it to you. I suggested it was silly because in just 12 weeks the House put together the crappiest impeachment in the history of this country. They have fervently been saying that Trump is the most evil president in history, and would cause the total destruction of civilization as we know it. And then they put it off till after the holidays... That, my friend, is really, really, really dumb. My point had nothing to do with the majority, only that you suggested Pelosi put it off so that her political rivals would have a nice holiday instead of saving our civilization. I highly doubt that is why she did it. Understand now?
So you think Pelosi wants to ruin the holidays for the 40+ Democrats and Chief Justice?

Nonsense.

This morning a pundent suggested Peposi wait until SCOTUS rules on various subpoena/tax return cases. Remember the end game for the Dems is to win the election. Pelosi made this clear months ago.
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      12-21-2019, 10:51 AM   #5077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
So you think Pelosi wants to ruin the holidays for the 40+ Democrats and Chief Justice?

Nonsense.

This morning a pundent suggested Peposi wait until SCOTUS rules on various subpoena/tax return cases. Remember the end game for the Dems is to win the election. Pelosi made this clear months ago.
So win the election by impeachment? How about running a better candidate and campaign rather than abusing process. Just a thought.
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      12-21-2019, 10:51 AM   #5078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
So you think Pelosi wants to ruin the holidays for the 40+ Democrats and Chief Justice?

Nonsense.

This morning a pundent suggested Peposi wait until SCOTUS rules on various subpoena/tax return cases. Remember the end game for the Dems is to win the election. Pelosi made this clear months ago.
40+ Dems and a chief justice vs our civilzation? Really?????? Do you even read what you type? At least now you admit that it is all political, and not for the good of the people...

And now what a pundit says??? C'mon man...

Keep digging that pit.
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      12-21-2019, 10:52 AM   #5079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
So you think Pelosi wants to ruin the holidays for the 40+ Democrats and Chief Justice?

Nonsense.

This morning a pundent suggested Peposi wait until SCOTUS rules on various subpoena/tax return cases. Remember the end game for the Dems is to win the election. Pelosi made this clear months ago.
Why would she need to wait for all that if the evidence they voted for is so strong to impeach trump on it own merit. Sounds like a cop out, it similar to an officer or prosecutor saying here your speeding ticket that we refuse to plea down or negotiate but don't show up to court until we find out what happens in your divorce case.
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      12-21-2019, 10:52 AM   #5080
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So win the election by impeachment? How about running a better candidate and campaign rather than abusing process. Just a thought.
Wouldn't that be nice?
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      12-21-2019, 10:54 AM   #5081
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Well, sometimes they can.

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to you, too!
likewise!!! Something we can agree on.
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      12-21-2019, 11:03 AM   #5082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagamus_NM View Post
I get that. I hate him and sometimes he does things that I like and I credit him for that. Credit where it is due for better or for worse.

My biggest beef with Trump is his willingness to let special interests run portions of the government in ways that are completely corrupt and run opposite to the stated mission of that agency. The cabinet picks have been absolutely abysmal. Most of the people that ran against him in his primary have either been put into roles where they have no clue what they are doing, know what they are doing and it is the opposite of the mission, or used nominations and then publicly humiliated them with it.

Honestly, what he did to Chris Christie and Mittens Romney was pretty damn funny and humiliating. I guess points to Trump on that one.

The anti science stance disgusts me though. Pandering to religious groups while shunning science is probably the thing that repulses me the most about modern conservatism.

Maybe now that the house is done with impeachment we will actual get some work done in Washington. I am perfectly fine with the senate acquitting him as that is the way the power is. I do want to hear from Mulvaney, Bolton, and I have no idea how Rick Perry has weasled his way out of the discussion. I am perfectly fine with putting Biden, Biden, and Schiff on the stand in exchange for the three I listed.

As far as the whistleblower, leave him out of it. No need to get this guy killed by a nutjob for speaking out in the proper fashion according to US laws.
What anti-science stance? I've not heard him say he thinks the Earth is flat, or the universe revolves around our planet.

Oh, he doesn't think humans effect the Earth's climate to the point that the USA has to pay retributions to the rest of the World for its abhorrent capitalist consumption of the Earth's resources? That's politics, not anti-science. Anti-science is not understanding there are just two genders...
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