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      06-23-2017, 03:57 PM   #485
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New info revealed in this video: M4 CP is about 7:45 around the 'ring ("about 10 seconds slower than the CS" according to the statement in the video).

In summary:
M4 base: 7:52
M4 CP: 7:45
M4 CS: 7:35
M4 GTS: 7:28
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      06-23-2017, 04:39 PM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
New info revealed in this video: M4 CP is about 7:45 around the 'ring (10 seconds slower than the CS).

In summary:
M4 base: 7:52
M4 CP: 7:45
M4 CS: 7:35
M4 GTS: 7:28
So, what do you think, will the time of the M4 CP be with the same tires (Michelin Sport Cup 2) as the M4 CS? My est.: 7:38!
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      06-23-2017, 05:00 PM   #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
New info revealed in this video: M4 CP is about 7:45 around the 'ring (10 seconds slower than the CS).

In summary:
M4 base: 7:52
M4 CP: 7:45
M4 CS: 7:35
M4 GTS: 7:28
I stand corrected.

The M4 CP is actually around 30 sec slower than a Camaro. At least the GTS is only 12 sec slower, but my goodness, it's exclusive and special!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ring-in-71604/

BMW - I was an enthusiast for decades... Until your product portfolio evolved so far away from your historical roots that they're unrecognizable.

Cheers
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      06-23-2017, 05:09 PM   #488
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      06-23-2017, 05:25 PM   #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
New info revealed in this video: M4 CP is about 7:45 around the 'ring (10 seconds slower than the CS).

In summary:
M4 base: 7:52
M4 CP: 7:45
M4 CS: 7:35
M4 GTS: 7:28
I stand corrected.

The M4 CP is actually around 30 sec slower than a Camaro. At least the GTS is only 12 sec slower, but my goodness, it's exclusive and special!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ring-in-71604/

BMW - I was an enthusiast for decades... Until your product portfolio evolved so far away from your historical roots that they're unrecognizable.

Cheers
No replacement for displacement - the old rule still holds true. Only now the yanks have figured out the chassis, suspension and handling.
I still want a CS though.
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      06-23-2017, 06:04 PM   #490
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Does it really have bigger wheels in the rear? It's like a hot wheel...
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      06-23-2017, 11:05 PM   #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
I stand corrected.

The M4 CP is actually around 30 sec slower than a Camaro. At least the GTS is only 12 sec slower, but my goodness, it's exclusive and special!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ring-in-71604/

BMW - I was an enthusiast for decades... Until your product portfolio evolved so far away from your historical roots that they're unrecognizable.

Cheers
We heard from all the P-car fans, so I guess now it's GM's turn.
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      06-24-2017, 05:42 AM   #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Your M3 DCT does not weigh 1560kg
It has a quoted EU (inc driver) weight of 1635KG or 1560KG excluding the "EU" driver.
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      06-24-2017, 06:53 AM   #493
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Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
It has a quoted EU (inc driver) weight of 1635KG or 1560KG excluding the "EU" driver.
That's the tricky thing, EU and DIN weights (EU=DIN+75kg) are for bare bone cars without any "options". I put "options" in quotation because many items that are considered as options by the factory are standard in local markets. Just as an example, how many countries do not offer the electrically adjustable seats in the standard package? So 1560kg is a theoretical weight for a DCT M3 and you will most likely not be able to find one anywhere in the world with such a low weight.
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      06-24-2017, 06:54 AM   #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
I stand corrected.

The M4 CP is actually around 30 sec slower than a Camaro. At least the GTS is only 12 sec slower, but my goodness, it's exclusive and special!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ring-in-71604/

BMW - I was an enthusiast for decades... Until your product portfolio evolved so far away from your historical roots that they're unrecognizable.

Cheers
I don't give sh!t what the Camaro does, I am not interested in one.
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      06-24-2017, 06:55 AM   #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelf View Post
So, what do you think, will the time of the M4 CP be with the same tires (Michelin Sport Cup 2) as the M4 CS? My est.: 7:38!
PSC2 are worth about 1 sec per minute lap, so sounds about right.
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      06-24-2017, 09:32 AM   #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I don't give sh!t what the Camaro does, I am not interested in one.
CanAutM3

Vigorous AND vulgar - bravo!

This isn't about Camaros. My posts are provocative for a reason - I was a BMW enthusiast since 2002s were new, and I care about the brand. My critiques are constructive. If there are any enthusiasts remaining in BMW management, I hope they see and consider a perspective from outside the echo chamber.

The M Brand used to mean racing car engineering, mildly detuned for civilian pilots and daily driving. In a word: Performance

Today M means... trim packages on chubby cars with lots and lots of decals.

There are many, many reasons why and how we make our purchasing decisions, for instance, luxury, style, quality, and pricing. I'm pointing to the elephant in the room: it's difficult to advocate that superlative automotive performance is a compelling or legitimate reason in the case of this product.

Make my Bimmers pre-ED / Erectile Dysfunction BMWs, I mean Efficient Dynamics, or whatever they call it now.
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      06-24-2017, 10:14 AM   #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post

My critiques are constructive... I'm pointing to the elephant in the room: it's difficult to advocate that superlative automotive performance is a compelling or legitimate reason in the case of this product.
That's because BMW is advocating superlative M4 automotive performance which is what the M4 CS is and has.

Your critiques aren't as much constructive as misplaced and we know this by looking at sales numbers. BMW isn't trying to make to best performing car, that's a niche market at best, they're trying to make the best performing M4, which will sell a hell of a lot more and has a much larger audience.

Consider the 230i which BMW claims has "dominating, blistering performance". I'm pretty sure they know it won't beat a 911 around the 'ring nor are they intending for it to.

If you're seeing elephants, it's because you're in the wrong room.
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      06-24-2017, 10:31 AM   #498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
I stand corrected.

The M4 CP is actually around 30 sec slower than a Camaro. At least the GTS is only 12 sec slower, but my goodness, it's exclusive and special!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ring-in-71604/

BMW - I was an enthusiast for decades... Until your product portfolio evolved so far away from your historical roots that they're unrecognizable.

Cheers
I don't give sh!t what the Camaro does, I am not interested in one.
Plus one. That rental car smell you never forget.
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      06-24-2017, 10:36 AM   #499
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
...we know this by looking at sales numbers. BMW isn't trying to make to best performing car, that's a niche market at best, they're trying to make the best performing M4, which will sell a hell of a lot more and has a much larger audience.
Sales metrics. How ordinary. Sounds like a long-term strategy for mediocrity.

Exceptional, innovative ideas and products like the original M brand are leading indicators. Sales are lagging metrics and backwards looking.

Given your perspective wrt sales, how does the BMW marque differentiate from, say, Lexus, Mercedes, or Cadillac?
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      06-24-2017, 11:04 AM   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
Sales metrics. How ordinary. Sounds like a long-term strategy for mediocrity.
Dude, this isn't a debate. BMWs aren't what you want them to be, but they are what BMW shareholders and customers want them to be.

From January:
DETROIT/MUNICH: The BMW Group has achieved its best ever sales in 2016, the sixth year in a row the company has set a new sales record, maintaining its position as the world’s leading premium car company with its three brands, BMW, MINI and Rolls-Royce.

Having recorded steady sales growth throughout the year, a total of 2,367,603 BMW Group vehicles were sold around the world in 2016, an increase of 5.3% compared with the previous year.
From last January:
The BMW M brand set a new U.S. sales record with 14,504 cars sold, an increase of 68 percent over 2014.
Meanwhile in China:
BMW is a much-liked brand inside China. Last year, the automaker sold more than 516,000 cars in China, representing 22% of BMW's worldwide sales.
In April, BMW announced it expects that its Chinese sales will grow by another 10% this year, double the pace of its global operations.
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

Last edited by GrussGott; 06-24-2017 at 11:24 AM..
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      06-24-2017, 11:24 AM   #501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
Sales metrics. How ordinary. Sounds like a long-term strategy for mediocrity.
Dude, this isn't a debate. BMWs aren't what you want them to be, but they are what BMW shareholders and customers want them to be.

From January:
DETROIT/MUNICH: The BMW Group has achieved its best ever sales in 2016, the sixth year in a row the company has set a new sales record, maintaining its position as the worldÂ’s leading premium car company with its three brands, BMW, MINI and Rolls-Royce.

Having recorded steady sales growth throughout the year, a total of 2,367,603 BMW Group vehicles were sold around the world in 2016, an increase of 5.3% compared with the previous year.
From last January:
The BMW M brand set a new U.S. sales record with 14,504 cars sold, an increase of 68 percent over 2014.
Meanwhile in China:
BMW is a much-liked brand inside China. Last year, the automaker sold more than 516,000 cars in China, representing 22% of BMW's worldwide sales.

In April, BMW announced it expects that its Chinese sales will grow by another 10% this year, double the pace of its global operations.
Enjoy your Kool-aide!

Edit: I'll just agree to disagree.

Sales are one important metric. They don't tell the whole story.

Enjoy the weekend
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      06-24-2017, 11:34 AM   #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
Enjoy your Kool-aide!
Hey, I'm cross-shopping Audi, porsche, Benz, and Jag ... but I'm probably going to re-up with BMW simply because they're the best value.

As a brand for me, I'd probably rank them this way:
  1. Porsche
  2. Audi
  3. BMW
  4. Jag
  5. Benz

For value:
  1. BMW
  2. Jag
  3. Audi
  4. Porsche
  5. Benz

It's not that I disagree with what you want from BMW, but the reality is the M4 is a great car for the money and the M4 CS turns the special dial to 11 and it's great performing. So people are gonna buy it.

We'd all love and obsess over the tetsuo111 spec BMW ///M car, but the truth is they probably wouldn't sell near as many as the M4 CS.
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      06-24-2017, 04:14 PM   #503
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are those comp pack M4's in the video in Individual Azurite Black Metallic? looks great
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      06-24-2017, 10:12 PM   #504
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an m3 cs would look great in sm blue.
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      06-25-2017, 08:01 AM   #505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
CanAutM3

Vigorous AND vulgar - bravo!

This isn't about Camaros. My posts are provocative for a reason - I was a BMW enthusiast since 2002s were new, and I care about the brand. My critiques are constructive. If there are any enthusiasts remaining in BMW management, I hope they see and consider a perspective from outside the echo chamber.

The M Brand used to mean racing car engineering, mildly detuned for civilian pilots and daily driving. In a word: Performance

Today M means... trim packages on chubby cars with lots and lots of decals.

There are many, many reasons why and how we make our purchasing decisions, for instance, luxury, style, quality, and pricing. I'm pointing to the elephant in the room: it's difficult to advocate that superlative automotive performance is a compelling or legitimate reason in the case of this product.

Make my Bimmers pre-ED / Erectile Dysfunction BMWs, I mean Efficient Dynamics, or whatever they call it now.
In a way, I am with you. As I have stated on several occasions in this and other threads, I would have preferred a CS that retains more of the performance elements of the GTS and more of the creature comforts of the CP.
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      06-25-2017, 10:11 AM   #506
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Originally Posted by M3Fury View Post
I hate to get on the negatory bandwagon here, but while I am interested in seeing more of that front lip, the rear spoiler seems to be very "Guilia QV-esque".
Looks a lot like the M Performance spoiler which I'm pretty sure was available before the Alfa.
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