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      06-25-2017, 04:56 PM   #507
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Originally Posted by Deluxx3 View Post
Looks a lot like the M Performance spoiler which I'm pretty sure was available before the Alfa.
The CS' rear deck spoiler is quite different than the MP one. The one on the CS is what is often referred to as a Gurney flap, it is aerodynamically more efficient and it is certainly not Alfa that invented it.
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      06-25-2017, 10:21 PM   #508
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Really cool car.

But if it's in the beginning of 911 territory, which it sounds as if it will be, it'll be a tough sell I think.

They'll sell every one of them though.

For me anyway -- I felt the M4 provided exceptional value at $75-$85k with great leasing terms. If you remove that from the equation I'm just flat out not interested in it. I'll buy a 911 every time. But I loved my M4. '17 Base C2 now though is a fantastic car and from the sounds of it -- will be a cheaper route than the CS.
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      06-26-2017, 01:20 PM   #509
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BMW's focus on the 2-door version of the F8X at the $100k price-point means the vehicle will be shopped against a 911, a tough competitor no matter how you slice it since the 911 begins life as a sports car.

The competition in the 4-door segment remains vehicles that started life as regular sedans (C63s, Alfa Quad). This seems like a more suitable arena for BMW to compete in given the contenders and the platform BMW is working off.

Since the F80 is close to EOP BMW likely doesn't want to spend $$$ to further refine it (or maybe we'll get a surprise before the end).
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      06-26-2017, 05:30 PM   #510
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Love it

I bet the board is full of whiners, like it was when they announced the M4 GTS

BMW builds a special car and everyone whines. Porsche builds the same thing and the fanboys come out of the gutters to praise it.

The GTS is the same price, or cheaper, than the P GTS. This will be around 100k$ and I'm sure it'll destroy a equally priced P car at the track.

Business as usual for BMW.

Now I look forward to reading all the reasons why this sucks and why a 100k$ BMW M4 is nonsense.
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      06-26-2017, 09:32 PM   #511
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post

Love it, I bet the board is full of whiners, I look forward to reading all the reasons why this sucks
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      06-27-2017, 09:00 AM   #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guarnibl
Really cool car.

But if it's in the beginning of 911 territory, which it sounds as if it will be, it'll be a tough sell I think.

They'll sell every one of them though.

For me anyway -- I felt the M4 provided exceptional value at $75-$85k with great leasing terms. If you remove that from the equation I'm just flat out not interested in it. I'll buy a 911 every time. But I loved my M4. '17 Base C2 now though is a fantastic car and from the sounds of it -- will be a cheaper route than the CS.
I dont know. Look how many M4 GTS are listed on cars.com yet
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      06-27-2017, 11:28 AM   #513
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Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
Sales metrics. How ordinary. Sounds like a long-term strategy for mediocrity.

Exceptional, innovative ideas and products like the original M brand are leading indicators. Sales are lagging metrics and backwards looking.

Given your perspective wrt sales, how does the BMW marque differentiate from, say, Lexus, Mercedes, or Cadillac?
IMPORTANT UPDATE!

Hey tetsuo111, I hereby retract my earlier statements / posts about sales numbers and proclaim you as right - Congratulations!

Your challenge got me curious and I did a little more digging (as I remembered there's a new BMWNA CEO) and it turns out that in the USA (BMW's 2nd largest market after China) there's a serious problem happening ... while BMW's consideration numbers are very high, their conversion numbers have been crumbling since 2015 and many think the reason is exactly your hypothesis - lack of innovation and exciting new products:



On March 1st, BMWNA hired a new CEO, Bernhard Kuhnt. He's a native of Germany and already knows the US:

* 1983 to 2003, he worked for Mercedes-Benz including as VP of sales for Chicago, San Francisco and Los Angeles
* From 2003 to 2009, he headed Mercedes-Benz dealerships in Anaheim, CA and Chandler, AZ
* In 2009 he joined Jaguar Land Rover
* In 2015 joined BMW in Munich to be groomed for a big market by Ian Robertson, the global head of sales



So, basically, US customers are disappointed and while they highly consider BMW, ultimately buyer conversion is decreasing starting in 2016. To right the ship, Robertson has brought in Kuhnt.

So well played. Savor your victory. Because I'll be back ... BACK I TELL YOU!
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

Last edited by GrussGott; 06-27-2017 at 11:51 AM..
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      06-27-2017, 01:04 PM   #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
IMPORTANT UPDATE!

Hey tetsuo111, I hereby retract my earlier statements / posts about sales numbers and proclaim you as right - Congratulations!

Your challenge got me curious and I did a little more digging (as I remembered there's a new BMWNA CEO) and it turns out that in the USA (BMW's 2nd largest market after China) there's a serious problem happening ... while BMW's consideration numbers are very high, their conversion numbers have been crumbling since 2015 and many think the reason is exactly your hypothesis - lack of innovation and exciting new products:

On March 1st, BMWNA hired a new CEO, Bernhard Kuhnt. He's a native of Germany and already knows the US:

* 1983 to 2003, he worked for Mercedes-Benz including as VP of sales for Chicago, San Francisco and Los Angeles
* From 2003 to 2009, he headed Mercedes-Benz dealerships in Anaheim, CA and Chandler, AZ
* In 2009 he joined Jaguar Land Rover
* In 2015 joined BMW in Munich to be groomed for a big market by Ian Robertson, the global head of sales

So, basically, US customers are disappointed and while they highly consider BMW, ultimately buyer conversion is decreasing starting in 2016. To right the ship, Robertson has brought in Kuhnt.

So well played. Savor your victory. Because I'll be back ... BACK I TELL YOU!
I'd argue it's simply due to the design lifecycle of the 3/5 series.

Based on this data it looks like there was a similar drop back in 08/09 before the F30 and F10 were released. Add in the F15/16 in 2014 and it's easy to see how they were able to show strong YOY growth.

It's debatable whether any of these were innovative releases, but they were new and that's probably all that really matters at this point.
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      06-27-2017, 02:00 PM   #515
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Originally Posted by Draper View Post
I'd argue it's simply due to the design lifecycle of the 3/5 series.

Based on this data it looks like there was a similar drop back in 08/09 before the F30 and F10 were released. Add in the F15/16 in 2014 and it's easy to see how they were able to show strong YOY growth.

It's debatable whether any of these were innovative releases, but they were new and that's probably all that really matters at this point.
It could be, although the larger dealers are definitely linking it to more pervasive problem as well as lack of a decent SUV lineup (which BMW is definitely addressing)

We probably need a product nerd thread which someone gets us some great breakdowns of sales volumes (including the dreaded "punched" cars!)
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      06-28-2017, 09:13 AM   #516
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How do we pronounce his last name?
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      06-28-2017, 10:00 AM   #517
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How do we pronounce his last name?
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      06-28-2017, 11:13 AM   #518
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How do we pronounce his last name?
It all depends on his performance.
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      06-28-2017, 02:40 PM   #519
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Am I only one who thinks that this guy is full of shit?
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      07-02-2017, 03:50 PM   #520
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Wow reading the last few posts of this thread is an hour I'll never get back. Hopefully on to more interesting things... 99% sure I just spotted a San Marino CS going northbound on to the DVP from Lakeshore here in Toronto.
Somebody had a kick ass Canada Day! Anyone know who it belongs to? I didn't think we'd see any until at least the fall.
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      07-02-2017, 08:23 PM   #521
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Originally Posted by Atomicflow View Post
Wow reading the last few posts of this thread is an hour I'll never get back. Hopefully on to more interesting things... 99% sure I just spotted a San Marino CS going northbound on to the DVP from Lakeshore here in Toronto.
Somebody had a kick ass Canada Day! Anyone know who it belongs to? I didn't think we'd see any until at least the fall.
M4 CS will not be available in Canada until Q2 2018...
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      07-02-2017, 11:26 PM   #522
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It all depends on his performance.


Lmao
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      07-04-2017, 09:15 AM   #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The CS' rear deck spoiler is quite different than the MP one. The one on the CS is what is often referred to as a Gurney flap, it is aerodynamically more efficient and it is certainly not Alfa that invented it.
I just went to the Welt today and saw the CS up close and personal. The rear spoiler is definitely larger than the MP one. I loved how aggressive the curve is. Will it be available to order from a dealer? The CS interior is beautiful! I love the alcantara interior. It had really nice M color pull tabs for the doors too.
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      08-07-2017, 02:33 PM   #524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
M4 CS will not be available in Canada until Q2 2018...
Any idea on pricing for Canada?

Seems strange to me that they unveil the car in Q2 2017 and dont release it to the public until a whole year later!
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      08-07-2017, 02:45 PM   #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica View Post
Any idea on pricing for Canada?

Seems strange to me that they unveil the car in Q2 2017 and dont release it to the public until a whole year later!
May be they are freaking out about the pricing. It is actually currently priced at 117,900 euros (already released in Europe), which at the current exchange rate would come up to $139,122 (US dollars).
More than a GTS!
Their problem is that the Euro went up 15% since the announcement of the car.
Even with a price adjustment, they will have a hard time bringing it to the US for less than $110,000.
You can buy a brand new GTS right now for $125,000 (and the GTS includes the carbon brakes, not the CS.
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      08-07-2017, 02:49 PM   #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post

Love it, I bet the board is full of whiners, I look forward to reading all the reasons why this sucks
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      08-07-2017, 02:50 PM   #527
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      08-07-2017, 03:52 PM   #528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdchicago View Post
May be they are freaking out about the pricing. It is actually currently priced at 117,900 euros (already released in Europe), which at the current exchange rate would come up to $139,122 (US dollars).
More than a GTS!
Their problem is that the Euro went up 15% since the announcement of the car.
Even with a price adjustment, they will have a hard time bringing it to the US for less than $110,000.
You can buy a brand new GTS right now for $125,000 (and the GTS includes the carbon brakes, not the CS.
Pricing is not based on exchange rate, but rather based on local market. The CS will likely be around $115k CAD here in Canada.

And BTW, it is not the Euro that went up but rather the USD that went down. Here in Canada, we have not seen much variation with the Euro but the USD has recently become quite cheeper .
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