Thinking about a purchase

[W1TAK]

The M4 GTS has just hit my radar after going off BMW M products these past few years. I just happened to search and saw I could buy one between 80-90k with almost no mileage and it’s got me thinking. With the limited numbers and a special feel about it surely a safe place to put your hard earned cash.

I owned an M3 CSL between 2006-2008 and it was my favorite car of all time, and I’ve had a lot of nice cars, there was just something special about that car.

I also remember exactly the same negative press on the CSL to begin with, the dip in prices for a couple of years and then the realization these cars where better than people initially thought, I can see the same pattern happening with this car to.

I test drove a GTS yesterday and it really reminds me of my old CSL, I was instantly using the levers to change gears and throwing it around corners, just felt great.

Now I need to decide what to do next......are there any new owners on here that have bought recently at this price range? Thoughts on the car?

[Day Laborer]

I highly encourage the purchase of a GTS at this current market. Sure, the new M3 will be faster and more powerful - but nothing compares to how raw the GTS is.
But I must emphasize, this car shine more on the track, properly set up, to fully appreciate it over other cars that its compared to

In regards to the "negative press" this car has gotten, I recall that only the Grand Tour and Top gear had anything negative to say about it.

Here are some quotes from magazines that can better articulate my feeling on the GTS:

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/...-drive-review/
"Here's the good news: This is the best BMW I've ever driven. Quick ways to describe the M4 GTS: playful, progressive, predictable, confidence-inspiring, balanced, tight, and most important, fun. I can't stress that last descriptor enough: fun. Remember when cars were fun? Someone at M does, too. "

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...-m4-gts-pcoty/
"That makes me cautious around the throttle, since the base M4 seems to step out and get squirrelly if you so much as breathe on it. But that's not the case here. If the rear end steps out, it's not the same feeling as the base car, which can be an "oh shit" panic moment when it gets away from you. This one communicates with you in the moment, so you can issue a preemptive correction that'll keep the GTS facing the right direction.

It means the GTS is a challenge to learn the limits, particularly if you're expecting the base M4. You're going in with the expectation of one car, and every input is showing that you're driving something else. Each corner earns you more confidence, and it makes you remember that M really knows how to tune a chassis.

The GTS is transformed. This is basically a World Challenge car with street tires. You can throw it up on curbs with reckless abandon, romp on the throttle and power out of corners with a slick slide from the rear. The steering has just the right amount of feedback, there's no feeling that you're driving a car engineered with Novocain.


No, the GTS was not the quickest car at NCM Motorsports Park during our Performance Car of the Year testing, not even close. But the engagement that it offered and the way it felt more than made up for it.

This is a car that started off with the most negative connotation of any we were testing, and wormed its way into my heart, right up there with the Lotus Evora 400. It's proof that an M car can still be special and that BMW has a very good idea of how to make an amazing performance car. In fact, the more I think about the M4 GTS, the most I liked it. And the more I want one.

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2...m4-gts-review/
"At each and every corner the GTS snaps for the apex. That much you’d expect of a hardcore track machine, but it’s what happens next that’s really special. If you’re pushing hard the front tires might feign to understeer but just as they slip a degree or two wide the rear tires compensate, edging into a small but perfectly judged yaw angle. The process is almost instant but also amazingly benign and it means you seem to nail every single corner, the rear axle just steering the front into the apex curb, the GTS poised perfectly on the edge of grip. For a car that generates so much lateral force and traction, it’s remarkably accessible and feels absolutely alive to your inputs.

As someone who has really only spent quality time in newer BMW M cars, this was a revelation. Everything that I had heard about how older M cars felt was finally coming true. The M4 GTS lived up to what I had read and heard for ages."

To feel this car dancing on the edge so beautifully, understeer and oversteer played out almost in slow motion and absolutely to your whim, is a fantastic sensation. It’s also where the GTS scores over, say, a 911 GT3 RS—which has very sharp edges if you overstep the limit. The furious noise and locked-down body control only add to the unbridled joy of wringing out the GTS. As somebody not too convinced by the standard M4 and worried that the GTS would just add more power to a slightly inert and spiky chassis package, I’m elated by the breathless excitement it delivers."

[SunnyD]

I concur with everything said above, but I have one question for the OP - how did you have an m3 CSL in the US?

[W1TAK]

Originally Posted by SunnyD

I concur with everything said above, but I have one question for the OP - how did you have an m3 CSL in the US?

I am originally from the UK, so had one RHD example from the 422 imported there. Its funny because there were loads unsold for up to two years after launch, seems a bit like GTS here in the US. Now they are really sought after by enthusiasts and have shot up in value. I remember having loads to choose from at the time. Now they are like hens teeth.

Thanks for the replies so far...

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by W1TAK

I am originally from the UK, so had one RHD example from the 422 imported there. Its funny because there were loads unsold for up to two years after launch, seems a bit like GTS here in the US. Now they are really sought after by enthusiasts and have shot up in value. I remember having loads to choose from at the time. Now they are like hens teeth.

Thanks for the replies so far...

People have a very short memory for those kinds of things...
Another Gts that went unsold for a while was the M3 Gts and look at the values now...
You cannot go wrong with the M4 Gts. It is a blast to drive, even to and from work. The most raw and direct experience I have had of all the fun cars I have owned (Ferrari 348, E46 M3, F80 M3 and now the Gts).
I cannot imagine a $90,000 M4 gts being a bad investment as long as you keep it for a few years. The best thing is that you get to be the one enjoying it in the mean time...
Day Laborer is so right about the reviews. Countless amazing reviews from all over the world and everyone focuses on a stupid show like the Grand Tour (those guys used to be good years ago...). I remember them making fun of water injection. Look at the 911 GT2 RS now!

[///M3ric]

I just bought a M4 GTS a few months ago in the price range you are mentioning. I have yet to see another one on the road. I also own a e92M3 ZCP 6mt, and currently own a e46 ZCP 6mt. So I am a fan of these three generations of M3/M4. I think people are going to realize in a few years after the fact as others have mentioned what a special car the GTS is. I did not like the F80 M3/M4 when they initially came out because of how "soft" the car was. I purchased the GTS and it fills that void and is raw. I do feel BMW shifting towards more mass appeal and the things I love about the e46 and e92 M3's is fading with that progression. Luckily we have the GTS and down the road my gut feeling is they will be hard to get and be collector cars, but that's just my two cents.

[Darth One]

When you say "surely a safe place to put your cash", do you mean it won't depreciate? Because I wouldn't make that bet. I "bought low" and still have lost maybe $20k in value. in less than a year of ownership. Sure, there's a bottom somewhere but I would not bet that we've reached it.

But I don't care. It's a car meant to be thrashed and enjoyed. The first owner of the car put 1000 miles on it and lost $40k. I put 10,000 and lost around $20k. I feel good about what I got out of it so far. My investments are not in cars.

Drive it, and buy it if you like the package. Don't worry about minimizing depreciation or making money. It will be a nice surprise if it happens, but put it out of your mind

[FormulaMMM]

IF it's what you want, then it's an amazing amount of car and BMW motorsport dna for the $. For long-time U.S. BMW fans like me who envied past gen CSL's and GTS's in Europe, it feels like almost a must at current prices.

I bought within the range you indicate. Agree with what others have said about disassociating cars & investments, however, I do find the financial analysis & projections somewhat entertaining, if nothing else.

If you buy in this range, accumulate some mileage, there's a reasonable chance you'll lose less than over the same period of time with a highly specced domestic pickup.

Suppose I find that gratifying in some way. Like I've found a glitch in the car ownership and depreciation matrix. BMW motorsport ownership at a bargain.

Yep, now that I think about it more, I still like it.

[W1TAK]

Thanks for the replies and perspectives, very true to decouple the car from investment. Actually I have tried in the past to buy a car that I really like, but try and avoid heavy depreciation, being an accountant it’s cost of ownership that is quite important to me. I’ve had a handful of decent results where ownership has cost me almost nothing, and one big winner when a Porsche I owned nearly doubled in price. I have been living off that success for a while now but recently have taken some large losses. I currently run a C63 AMG which I know is hemorrhaging cash currently so switching to the GTS seems at least a better way to ‘spend’ my depreciation!

[BarryB]

Originally Posted by Darth One

When you say "surely a safe place to put your cash", do you mean it won't depreciate? Because I wouldn't make that bet. I "bought low" and still have lost maybe $20k in value. in less than a year of ownership. Sure, there's a bottom somewhere but I would not bet that we've reached it.

But I don't care. It's a car meant to be thrashed and enjoyed. The first owner of the car put 1000 miles on it and lost $40k. I put 10,000 and lost around $20k. I feel good about what I got out of it so far. My investments are not in cars.

Drive it, and buy it if you like the package. Don't worry about minimizing depreciation or making money. It will be a nice surprise if it happens, but put it out of your mind

You haven't lost anything until you sell it....and don't :-)

[W1TAK]

Still working on a deal, has anyone done a deal recently where they are willing to disclose the purchase price as well as condition/mileage? Happy to take a PM, just want to find the real price on these cars.

I have never seen such a spread of prices on a car before. The ones of interest to me are listed from 80,999 to 89,999 all from non BMW dealers, clearly must have been trades against different Marques, they all quote how much below blue book value they are too. Some private sales are comically priced well over 120,000! Sorry if that’s anyone on this forum but I am not getting why anyone would take one of those deals?

[Darth One]

You could look at eBay completed listings and buy it now prices. Mid-80's is probably the true market for these cars now.

Private sales are at $120k? You can have mine for $100k!!

[pfl]

The only reservation I'd have would be how M4 CS was within spitting distance of GTS Nurburgring lap times but lap times are not the entire story. I believe if you're buying the GTS, you have to be wanting the GTS and no other car because GTS is not a performance bargain at all compared to what 80-90k can buy you. (991.1 GTS, 991.2 C2S, etc.)

[W1TAK]

Originally Posted by pfl

The only reservation I'd have would be how M4 CS was within spitting distance of GTS Nurburgring lap times but lap times are not the entire story. I believe if you're buying the GTS, you have to be wanting the GTS and no other car because GTS is not a performance bargain at all compared to what 80-90k can buy you. (991.1 GTS, 991.2 C2S, etc.)

Thank you, it’s a very good point to compare what else is out there for the same money. I am a big Porsche fan as well. I just searched on a 991.1 GTS and you could buy one for the same price, however it’s going to be something with 20-30,000 miles on it. I don’t consider that much competition against the M4 GTS which is as new. So, really the comparison is against a low mileage 991.1 Carrera S, it’s personal choice. The 911 variants are so diluted, in my opinion.

[FormulaMMM]

It's natural to consider what you could have for equal money, but the 911 vs GTS choice really doesn't come to mind if you know what the GTS is about, imo. Further down the price range, it'd be like choosing between an MX5 Cup and an M4 ZCP.

M4 GTS would have come with buckets and harnesses if it weren't for U.S. law. It's a track car through and through.

991 911 GTS is a performance road car that performs well on track. Same could be said for an M4 ZCP.

Not to sound obnoxious, but revisiting my previous post -- IF it's what you want, then it's an amazing amount of car and BMW motorsport dna for the $.

The uniqueness and true orientation of the car isn't recognized domestically I don't think. Maybe because it's the first one to ever hit our shores. People still want to somehow see it as a traditional M car and (non-GT) 911 competitor.

If you want a BMW track car, then you're not deliberating between that and a 991 Carrera S.

[W1TAK]

Thanks for all the advice, the GTS is the car for me and I pick it up tomorrow.....trading in my C63 AMG S. Very excited to pick it up!

[Bashful]

Not that it's the deciding factor but the 'Ring lap time is outdated as the track was redone in parts and now yields faster times. Unlike the CS the GTS time predates the track work. Anyways the car is nutty to drive, in a good way. a bit hairy and a real good time.

[nina.bird007]

Hello! Tell me which car is better to take: BMW X5, or BMW X7

[VCP]

So I just had to click an appreciate to all the legit explanations above! Enjoy the new beast OP! You will never sit wonder if you did the wrong thing.

[VCP]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

.
The uniqueness and true orientation of the car isn't recognized domestically I don't think. Maybe because it's the first one to ever hit our shores. People still want to somehow see it as a traditional M car and (non-GT) 911 competitor.
.

[vasi_M3]

Originally Posted by W1TAK

Thanks for all the advice, the GTS is the car for me and I pick it up tomorrow.....trading in my C63 AMG S. Very excited to pick it up!

Let us know your first week impressions...also thinking about going from M3 ZCP to GTS....undecided because I could probably get to GTS track times with Cup2 and MPerformance suspension...but a GTS is a GTS I guess

[W1TAK]

Originally Posted by vasi_M3

Let us know your first week impressions...also thinking about going from M3 ZCP to GTS....undecided because I could probably get to GTS track times with Cup2 and MPerformance suspension...but a GTS is a GTS I guess

The GTS is a special machine, just gets me excited to get in it. Start the engine and it’s really loud in a good way. I have only done a few miles so far, it does remind me of my old CSL....wants to be pushed, handling feels sharp on the road. Gets loads of attention, maybe the sound plus the looks. BMW have really done a trick with this car, I totally get it, maybe I understand it more coming from Europe. At current price point it’s a bargain.

I will track it at some point too, would be a waste not to.