BMW offers steel replacements for the CCBs?

[SYT_Shadow]

If it's true that the M2'c' brakes are the calipers from the F8X CCB kit, then wouldn't anyone be able to execute a cheap CCB to steel conversion just by buying those rotors?

I understand the extra weight blahblah. But it would seem like BMW themselves are not building a rotor that is compatible with the CCB setups

Any thoughts? Other than 'heavy' please

[allinon72]

Cheap? The rotors are the expensive part, at around 13k if I remember correctly. And you won't find many people running CCBs for track use, due to cost of replacement.

[domino_z]

Maths don't work on this one

The rotors are the most expensive part of a ccb setup, the calipers and even pads to some degree are generic items

The cost of the ceramic rotors as 4 individual parts would be more expensive than the whole ccb retro kit bmw sell as a single part number (which includes rotors, calipers, brackets, discs, booster)

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by allinon72

Cheap? The rotors are the expensive part, at around 13k if I remember correctly. And you won't find many people running CCBs for track use, due to cost of replacement.

My bad, I meant a cheap CCB to steel rotor conversion

As in, your M4 has CCB because it was optioned that way. [or it's a GTS]
You then buy rotors from the M2C which are steel and throw them onto the M4

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by domino_z

Maths don't work on this one

The rotors are the most expensive part of a ccb setup, the calipers and even pads to some degree are generic items

The cost of the ceramic rotors as 4 individual parts would be more expensive than the whole ccb retro kit bmw sell as a single part number (which includes rotors, calipers, brackets, discs, booster)

sorry guys, I meant the other way around.

[CanAutM3]

You won't find steel replacements for CCB.

Metal brake rotors are made of cast iron

[jlhymb]

The answer you are looking for already exists in previous threads...

CCB m3/4 have a different brake booster than the cast iron car and the gts.
Changing the brake booster on a CCB m3/4 to become a cast iron m3/4 also requires coding.
Otherwise, the hardware from the M2C is plug and play.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You won't find steel replacements for CCB.

Metal brake rotors are made of cast iron

you know what I meant, don't be facetious

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by jlhymb

The answer you are looking for already exists in previous threads...

CCB m3/4 have a different brake booster than the cast iron car and the gts.
Changing the brake booster on a CCB m3/4 to become a cast iron m3/4 also requires coding.
Otherwise, the hardware from the M2C is plug and play.

I searched. It's clear now that other than the coding it's a direct swap

Even better than repurposing different rotors!

[RichBunch2]

This post might help you:
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1090521

A link from that post:
https://www.racingbrake.com/RB-2pc-R...bmw-irk-11.htm

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by RichBunch2

This post might help you:
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1090521

A link from that post:
https://www.racingbrake.com/RB-2pc-R...bmw-irk-11.htm

Thank you for the info. I had seen the RB ones but was curious to see if BMW offered OEM ones -- it seems like they do from the M2C brakes

Clearly the ideal solution is a proper BBK instead of the ridiculous CCB. The current rotors are pretty much wiped out and have lasted less than a set of iron rotors -- and have zero braking benefits

[CAOZKAN]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Thank you for the info. I had seen the RB ones but was curious to see if BMW offered OEM ones -- it seems like they do from the M2C brakes

Clearly the ideal solution is a proper BBK instead of the ridiculous CCB. The current rotors are pretty much wiped out and have lasted less than a set of iron rotors -- and have zero braking benefits

Exactly what happened to me. I bought Essex AP BBK afterwards, didn't need to change brake booster or coding, it's a plug and play one. Afterwards, I sold my CCBs, I'm very happy with my decision

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by CAOZKAN

Exactly what happened to me. I bought Essex AP BBK afterwards, didn't need to change brake booster or coding, it's a plug and play one. Afterwards, I sold my CCBs, I'm very happy with my decision

CCBs are the ultimate hard parker accessory

And to think people still think 'nothing in the world brakes like CCBs' facepalm

[jlhymb]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

CCBs are the ultimate hard parker accessory

And to think people still think 'nothing in the world brakes like CCBs' facepalm

I think that might be a bit harsh on the CCB. My first m3 had them and to be honest, I enjoyed the sense of occasion it gave to the car (for street use anyway).

I think the biggest reason why they are loved/hated is due to the price and the price of replacement parts, particularly the rotors. If the running costs where much closer inline with the iron counter parts I think you would see the track guys run them. But, like with the PCCB, CCB rotors are still astronomical in price.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by jlhymb

I think that might be a bit harsh on the CCB. My first m3 had them and to be honest, I enjoyed the sense of occasion it gave to the car (for street use anyway).

I think the biggest reason why they are loved/hated is due to the price and the price of replacement parts, particularly the rotors. If the running costs where much closer inline with the iron counter parts I think you would see the track guys run them. But, like with the PCCB, CCB rotors are still astronomical in price.

Fair enough, here is the long version

CCBs are well suited to the street and occasional track use. If you are not fast you won't have any issues.
However, they are marketed as the track-friendly brake version which is not the case.

CCBs are a flawed concept for serious track use regardless of how deep your pockets are. A good BBK (AP 5000r, PFC) provides the same braking experience and more longevity before you get into the running costs.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by jlhymb

I think that might be a bit harsh on the CCB. My first m3 had them and to be honest, I enjoyed the sense of occasion it gave to the car (for street use anyway).

I think the biggest reason why they are loved/hated is due to the price and the price of replacement parts, particularly the rotors. If the running costs where much closer inline with the iron counter parts I think you would see the track guys run them. But, like with the PCCB, CCB rotors are still astronomical in price.

Agreed, if the CCB had the same operating cost as irons, it would not even be a question.

And that is where the dichotomy lies, the CCB are overkill for street driving and are cost prohibitive for track use.

[Bluer2]

BAM! CCB Calipers with M2 rotors. Plug and play direct swap. These rotors are heavy as fcuk though.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Bluer2

BAM! CCB Calipers with M2 rotors. Plug and play direct swap. These rotors are heavy as fcuk though.

nice! Where were you able to get the rotors from? I called a couple places and they said they were backordered

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Agreed, if the CCB had the same operating cost as irons, it would not even be a question.

And that is where the dichotomy lies, the CCB are overkill for street driving and are cost prohibitive for track use.

I think it would be, even if it was the same price

In a hypothetical world where they are the same cost as iron, they have additional issues:

-much larger so they force larger wheels
-hard to see what their life is. No heat checking like regular rotors which is a good guide to rotor health
-fragile, which is at odds with multiple wheel changes done when tracking

The advantage they have, weight, is versus regular brakes. How much lighter are they than a full AP or PFC BBK? And if they are still lighter only considering brakes, what about when you include 19 vs 18" wheels which should be part of the question

Either AP or BBK kit provides what should be commonly referred to as 'infinite' braking performance, so the CCBs provide absolutely zero advantage in terms of feel or modulation or performance or consistency

[jlhymb]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I think it would be, even if it was the same price

In a hypothetical world where they are the same cost as iron, they have additional issues:

-much larger so they force larger wheels
-hard to see what their life is. No heat checking like regular rotors which is a good guide to rotor health
-fragile, which is at odds with multiple wheel changes done when tracking

The advantage they have, weight, is versus regular brakes. How much lighter are they than a full AP or PFC BBK? And if they are still lighter only considering brakes, what about when you include 19 vs 18" wheels which should be part of the question

Either AP or BBK kit provides what should be commonly referred to as 'infinite' braking performance, so the CCBs provide absolutely zero advantage in terms of feel or modulation or performance or consistency

Have you driven a CCB car? You seem to be attempting to come up with an all encompassing statement to dismiss the CCBs - why?

I enjoyed the feel and modulation of the CCB more so than the iron brakes on my current m3.
Further, the hypothetical situation is moot: each of the points have an available work around. Also worth noting, disc brakes have had almost 100 years of development and use compared to carbon disc brakes (~depending on source).

Frankly, the CCB is infantile in its life cycle compared to the standard iron brakes or BBKs. The cost difference is still astronomical to run CCBs and therefore not suited for extensive track use. The current application of the CCB, in my mind, is only slightly different than that of luxury dive watches.

If you are looking for a simple conclusion for CCBs here is what I would offer:
CCBs add character to the car and those who like spirited canyon driving, hard parking, and perhaps the feeling of using newer technology, will enjoy ownership. For everyone else, especially those who track, the iron brakes perform no worse.

Also worth noting, I took a wash when I traded my last m3 w/CCB for my current. I think the f87c rotor swap will be most beneficial to those who purchased a used m3/4 with CCBs already installed and are looking for a cost conscious BBK.

[Bluer2]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

nice! Where were you able to get the rotors from? I called a couple places and they said they were backordered

I had to wait 3 months for the rotors from Germany. Nobody has them in stock.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by jlhymb

Have you driven a CCB car? You seem to be attempting to come up with an all encompassing statement to dismiss the CCBs - why?
.

The thread was created looking for a stopgap solution after having destroyed a set of CCBs. So yes, one could say I may have driven one at the track once or twice

Personally I enjoy the cool aesthetics of the CCBs and not having to swap pads for track use. And the lack of brake dust, that is awesome.