R44 Performance
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > M3/M4 versus...

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-06-2019, 07:14 PM   #45
Racer20
Major
United_States
1030
Rep
1,190
Posts

Drives: F80 M3, 228i THP, E46 ZHP
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I've absolutely loved my 2016 M3 and my current 2018 M3 CS. Now I'm looking into something smaller, lighter, and sportier. I originally got the F80 because I needed a 4 door for the family, but now that it's been promoted to weekend/track car, I feel like I don't need the 4 doors anymore. I'm looking for a coupe to have fun with in the canyons and on the track and auto-crossing. I'm open to out of the box suggestions! Some thoughts:
  • Doesn't have to be 400hp+, just has to be fun
  • Coupe
  • Nimble
  • Preferably used so I can make it a project car
  • No supercars, I'm not rich! Under $60k used preferred.
  • As much as I wanted a STI in the past, I prefer something a little more refined and "my age".

It's no secret that my current top choice is a 981 Cayman S or GTS. I've been lusting for one for months here on the forums. It checks all the boxes, but I'm open to suggestions and personal experiences!
I've been test driving caymans and 911's recently.

991's (.1 and .2) are smaller, lighter, and sportier than the F80, and better in most ways, but they still felt "familiar" to me, as in the next logical progression through the BMW line up. Take an M3 and make everything 25% better, and you have a Carrera S. Whereas the M3's ride and handling is compromised by being a large-ish sedan, the 911's ride and handling is compromised by the heavy rear weight bias and less than ideal polar moment. Both cars make up for it in spades, but . . .

The Cayman has no such compromise. It's mid engine balance is a revelation compared to the M3 and offers a much different driving experience compared to either car. While the 911 is responsive and linear and well balanced, the cayman is all those things, but also light, effortless and telepathic.

The M3 is a sports sedan, The Cayman is a true sports car. The 911 is like if they had a baby and it got the good genes from both parents.

The rumored return of the flat 6 to the non-GT4 cayman is what I'm waiting for. That car should be a blast to drive.

Incidentally, I drove a 987 cayman last year and even though it was a bit old and felt it's age, it still had that same fantastic balance that the 718S I drove last week had. For $60k, you'll be able to get a very nice 981 S, which will check all your boxes perfectly.

Forget about cars like the STi. I've driven an STi, EVO 10, and Golf R recently. Coming from an M3, they felt like a serious downgrade. The R didn't feel anything like a sporty car. The STi felt like a child's idea of a sports car was. The EVO was actually surprisingly good to drive, but was basically like a cost cut F80, and offers no real benefit. I doubt that even an M2 will scratch the itch you have for something different. Corvettes aren't light, and they aren't nimble. Awesome cars, but they don't really tick your boxes. Drive a Cayman.
__________________
2015 M3, 2005 330i ZHP, 2015 228i 6MT Track Handling Pack, 2007 M Coupe (Sold)
Appreciate 2
      09-09-2019, 01:54 PM   #46
nicknaz
Lieutenant General
nicknaz's Avatar
3183
Rep
10,509
Posts

Drives: C6Z
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NorCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
Corvettes aren't light, and they aren't nimble. Awesome cars, but they don't really tick your boxes. Drive a Cayman.
Just wanted to share that a C5 z06 is ~3100lb, and 981 Cayman GTS is ~3050lb

There's a sub 3000lb with driver, 500whp c5z for sale for $14k here in Norcal (owner is the previous owner of my SM, and wins his TT class regularly).

I think you'd have to really want a porsche to buy one over a vette from a straight up performance per dollar standpoint

I admit, I too am a sucker for brand, and that's why I have an old 911 and not an old vette, but I'm changing my thinking
Appreciate 0
      09-10-2019, 10:15 AM   #47
MannyM5
Second Lieutenant
MannyM5's Avatar
195
Rep
263
Posts

Drives: 2016 BMW M2, 2001 Honda S2000
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Huntington, NY

iTrader: (0)

Keep an eye out for 987.2 cayman R as well(or S). Cant go wrong with either (987.2 or 981), but compared to the 981, 987.2 has better steering feel(hydraulic vs. electric), Brake pads are easier/quicker to change, cheaper body work/repairs/replacement parts(981 is all aluminum$$$$). Motors are similar and both are reliable. Overall weight is also similar. I prefer manual track cars, but pdk is also great and available.

The 987.2 Cayman R is a very good track car out of the box. Upgrade the brake fluid, brake pads, add gt3 front control arms for more neg camber.. For safety add seats, harness, harness/roll bar and you are good to go.

981 gt4's have been coming down slightly but are still mostly in the $80-90k range. The may dip a little more once 718 gt4's start getting delivered.
z4m coupe is another great choice as mentioned. Also cant go wrong with a track prepped e46m.
Appreciate 0
      09-10-2019, 10:19 AM   #48
jmg
Lieutenant General
jmg's Avatar
18493
Rep
14,085
Posts

Drives: G82 M4C X-Drive
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2022 G82 M4C X-Drive  [9.83]
2018 F80 M3 CS  [9.83]
2019 i3 BEV  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyM5 View Post
Keep an eye out for 987.2 cayman R as well(or S). Cant go wrong with either (987.2 or 981), but compared to the 981, 987.2 has better steering feel(hydraulic vs. electric), Brake pads are easier/quicker to change, cheaper body work/repairs/replacement parts(981 is all aluminum$$$$). Motors are similar and both are reliable. Overall weight is also similar. I prefer manual track cars, but pdk is also great and available.

The 987.2 Cayman R is a very good track car out of the box. Upgrade the brake fluid, brake pads, add gt3 front control arms for more neg camber.. For safety add seats, harness, harness/roll bar and you are good to go.

981 gt4's have been coming down slightly but are still mostly in the $80-90k range. The may dip a little more once 718 gt4's start getting delivered.
z4m coupe is another great choice as mentioned. Also cant go wrong with a track prepped e46m.
Cayman R and GT4 are out of my budget. The 987 does sound tempting but it was the 981 that I really fell in love with. I feel like I'll be lusting after every 981 I see regretting my 987 despite the steering and fun factor.
__________________

2022 G82///M4 Competition X-Drive - KW-HAS, EBC Bluestuff, Millway Race Camber Plates, Cup2 Connect*, PSI High Flow Midpipe, Lightweight Front Lip, M Perf Flow Through Wing
Previous • 2018 F80 ///M3 CS • 2016 F80 ///M3
IG: Raging_G82
Appreciate 0
      09-10-2019, 04:42 PM   #49
element241
Private First Class
element241's Avatar
United_States
74
Rep
123
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

987/981 Cayman and ND2 Miata are both strong recommendations.
__________________
2019 F87 M2C - SO/Black - DCT - Exec Pkg
2018 F82 M4 - SSII/Black - DCT - ZCP - Exec Pkg - M Perf Pkg (sold)
2016 F87 M2 - LBB/Black - DCT - Exec Pkg (sold)
2015 F80 M3 - MG/SO - DCT - Exec Pkg - EDC (sold)
2014 F22 M235i - AW/Black - 6MT - Premium Pkg - Tech Pkg (sold)
Appreciate 0
      09-10-2019, 07:42 PM   #50
PK1
Private First Class
159
Rep
164
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Can't blame you for liking the 981, it's also high on my list. Love the sound of those flat sixes.

It's been recommended a few times already, but if you haven't driven an ND2 Miata, go drive one. It's not for everyone, but you may just get surprised...
Appreciate 0
      09-12-2019, 07:55 AM   #51
boostm3
Lieutenant Colonel
boostm3's Avatar
683
Rep
1,608
Posts

Drives: '18 LBB M2 6MT Exec
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Parkland, Fl

iTrader: (0)

C8 Vette! It will outperform everything up to twice its price or more.
__________________
Boostm3
'18 LBB MT M2 Exec pkg, Moonroof, Production 7/6/17
Appreciate 0
      09-12-2019, 11:33 AM   #52
rezadue
Two turbos are better than one!
rezadue's Avatar
Canada
118
Rep
404
Posts

Drives: 2017 BMW M4 ZCP
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

iTrader: (0)

my vote is for the Lotus Evora as well.
__________________

Sapphire Black M4 Competition
Appreciate 0
      09-12-2019, 11:44 AM   #53
M3GymNut
Major
908
Rep
1,211
Posts

Drives: 2021 M3Comp
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (0)

You can easily get Supra at MSRP but just not launch edition which are the ones being marked up. They are very nice.

Whatever you do, don't go american.
Appreciate 0
      09-12-2019, 11:48 AM   #54
M3GymNut
Major
908
Rep
1,211
Posts

Drives: 2021 M3Comp
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
My buddy tells me he's getting his C8 at sticker.
and you believe him?
Appreciate 1
      09-12-2019, 01:31 PM   #55
nicknaz
Lieutenant General
nicknaz's Avatar
3183
Rep
10,509
Posts

Drives: C6Z
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NorCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PK1 View Post
Can't blame you for liking the 981, it's also high on my list. Love the sound of those flat sixes.

It's been recommended a few times already, but if you haven't driven an ND2 Miata, go drive one. It's not for everyone, but you may just get surprised...
ND2 + pile of R comps was definitely suggested and OP keeps going back to 981, so we are clear that’s where his heart is

As for the sounds, i think the supposed flat plane crank V8 with similar firing order as F-cars rumored for c8z06 should be pretty great. Unfortunately, 4cyl cars tend to lag in sound department, unless they are of the super high RPM varietal (in my opinion anyway)
Appreciate 1
jmg18493.00
      09-12-2019, 02:12 PM   #56
boostm3
Lieutenant Colonel
boostm3's Avatar
683
Rep
1,608
Posts

Drives: '18 LBB M2 6MT Exec
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Parkland, Fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
and you believe him?
Why? There are myriad dealers committing to MSRP.
__________________
Boostm3
'18 LBB MT M2 Exec pkg, Moonroof, Production 7/6/17
Appreciate 0
      09-12-2019, 02:31 PM   #57
erictrainer
Lieutenant
277
Rep
419
Posts

Drives: 16 F80 6MT MG on SO
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Miami

iTrader: (6)

S2000

Get a low mileage S2000 (25k-30k) and take it to LHT Performance( +10k) for the SC package. That is reliable 400+whp... hopefully you're not a big guy... otherwise this is the answer.
Appreciate 0
      09-12-2019, 03:16 PM   #58
elitex
.
elitex's Avatar
United_States
1230
Rep
1,918
Posts

Drives: 22 M8C Coupe, 21 X5MC
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Evora 400.... Amazing car for the price!
__________________
Previous
21 X5M MBB, 20 Evora GT, 20 C63S Coupe,19 X5 50i, 18 Giulia QV, 18 M5, 17 Evora 400, 18 LX570, 17 GT350,18 M4 Comp,17 R8 V10 ,17 M3 Comp,17 GT350,16 Escalade Plat ESV, 16 570S,16 911 GTS,15 M5, 15 LX570, 13 M5,13 Viper,14 Cayman S,13 M3,13 S4,10 RX8,12 A4,10 G37, 04 Mini Cooper S, 08 Scion TC, 06 Altima V6, 05 Altima, 01 Altima, 00 Altima, 94 Explorer, 92 Toyota Pickup, 98 Altima
Appreciate 0
      09-12-2019, 09:07 PM   #59
PK1
Private First Class
159
Rep
164
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PK1 View Post
Can't blame you for liking the 981, it's also high on my list. Love the sound of those flat sixes.

It's been recommended a few times already, but if you haven't driven an ND2 Miata, go drive one. It's not for everyone, but you may just get surprised...
ND2 + pile of R comps was definitely suggested and OP keeps going back to 981, so we are clear that’s where his heart is

As for the sounds, i think the supposed flat plane crank V8 with similar firing order as F-cars rumored for c8z06 should be pretty great. Unfortunately, 4cyl cars tend to lag in sound department, unless they are of the super high RPM varietal (in my opinion anyway)
I haven't come across a 4 cylinder engine that sounded good to me. 5 cylinder or more, quite a few, but no 4s...

The wailing of Porsche flat 6s at high rpm is intoxicating. The issue with the 981s is that with the tall gearing of the manual transmission it's hard to rev the engine and stay within legal limits on the street. The redline speed in second gear (981S) is over 80mph! Would be great on the track though.
Appreciate 0
      09-13-2019, 07:03 AM   #60
swagon
Major General
swagon's Avatar
No_Country
13483
Rep
8,148
Posts

Drives: F80 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

I have never driven it, but Matt Farah from the smoking tire is a hbig advocate for the Lotus Evora 400/410. He has made multiple vids and it all seems like it is still an analog experience. Also DD'able and not as common as Porsche.





__________________
Appreciate 1
minn1913970.00
      09-13-2019, 09:49 AM   #61
amw896
Major
amw896's Avatar
Canada
583
Rep
1,117
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW M235i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: ontario

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M235i  [10.00]
c8 corvette!
Appreciate 0
      09-13-2019, 11:17 AM   #62
NYG
Brigadier General
NYG's Avatar
United_States
10572
Rep
3,643
Posts

Drives: Corvette Z06
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Brooklyn, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
and you believe him?
Yes

But I'm hearing this from a lot of people.
Appreciate 0
      09-13-2019, 03:46 PM   #63
nicknaz
Lieutenant General
nicknaz's Avatar
3183
Rep
10,509
Posts

Drives: C6Z
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NorCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
Yes

But I'm hearing this from a lot of people.
One of my friends just sold his 991.1 RS and replaced it with a C8 in order. He wanted a car he could feel good about hammering on, versus he was trying to keep the RS “mint” as an “investment”.

Msrp deal, 6 months wait.

Not sure why it’s so unbelievable to get a c8 for msrp. Maybe it’s harder if you want the very first one?
Appreciate 0
      09-13-2019, 10:13 PM   #64
NYG
Brigadier General
NYG's Avatar
United_States
10572
Rep
3,643
Posts

Drives: Corvette Z06
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Brooklyn, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
One of my friends just sold his 991.1 RS and replaced it with a C8 in order. He wanted a car he could feel good about hammering on, versus he was trying to keep the RS “mint” as an “investment”.

Msrp deal, 6 months wait.

Not sure why it’s so unbelievable to get a c8 for msrp. Maybe it’s harder if you want the very first one?
Yeah, I've been hearing this from everyone. No idea why everyone thinks there's a markup on these.
Appreciate 0
      10-02-2019, 01:49 PM   #65
$hah$
Second Lieutenant
$hah$'s Avatar
United_States
102
Rep
299
Posts

Drives: F80 MG/MT/ZCP & 2023 X7
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2023 BMW X7  [0.00]
2018 BMW M3  [0.00]
Supra - once the price levels out.
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 10:58 AM   #66
TRZ06
Lieutenant Colonel
TRZ06's Avatar
United_States
629
Rep
1,755
Posts

Drives: 16' M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

Ariel Atom 3... (mike drop)
__________________
18? Camaro 2SS 1LE
16' M3 MG Ext. /SO Int. (DCT, Ohlin R/T, 19" wheels)
15' Audi S4
13' Audi TTRS (APR stage 1, MSS springs)
09' C6 Z06
08' M3 Interlagos Blue: 6sp, Tech.
Appreciate 1
minn1913970.00
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:53 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST