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      03-23-2020, 07:40 AM   #1
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265/35/19 PS4S ruined my CS

I wanted to give PS4S a go because they are supposed to have much better traction. They definitely do.

I'm really disappointed in how the steering feel and response are now. Has anyone else felt the same? Maybe it's because they are 265 and not 255 star spec. I may put go back to stock MPSS on the front.
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      03-23-2020, 08:09 AM   #2
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If the tires brand new are feeling numb and squishy, give them some time to fully break in. All brand new tires have something called 'tread squirm' which can make them feel poor brand new.

The PS4S is the best of the best for daily driven tire choices. You've got an amazing tire there! I went with Conti ECS's to save a few bucks, and will go back to PS4S's once these Conti's are done. The Michelin's are superior in every way.
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      03-23-2020, 10:12 AM   #3
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all canadian (ROW as well?) CS come with 265 in the front.

I have stock MPSS right now but have PS4S waiting to go on sometime this summer. Never heard of anyone complaining doing a size for size change
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      03-23-2020, 10:22 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS_BMW View Post
I wanted to give PS4S a go because they are supposed to have much better traction. They definitely do.

I'm really disappointed in how the steering feel and response are now. Has anyone else felt the same? Maybe it's because they are 265 and not 255 star spec. I may put go back to stock MPSS on the front.
You need to give them break in time, at first they don't feel how they should.
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      03-23-2020, 10:45 AM   #5
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The sidewalls are not as stretched as the MPSS so you do lose a tad bit of stiffness from the sidewalls. It's not that bad though, just a very very slight bit. Break it in for 1-2K miles and you'll feel different.
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      03-23-2020, 10:03 PM   #6
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Check the tire pressure and give them 500 miles to “bleed” out silica and scuff in. Once that happens you should be gtg. The ps4s are better than pss in every way.
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      03-25-2020, 03:42 PM   #7
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Tire design is a very complex endeavour.

Tires designed as per car manufacturer specifications are not only optimized for a given vehicle but often also for a specific fitment (front/rear and wheel width) on that given vehicle. Usually, front tires have a more rounded contact patch to maximize steering while rear tires have squarer contact patch to maximize traction.

Tire manufacturers also sell generic tires, meaning that they are not designed for a specific application. Most generic tires are simply a compromise between front and rear application. However, sometimes tire manufacturers will give a bias towards a front or rear application depending on what that size of tire might more likely be used for.

Now, with that said, the 255/35R19(*) PSS, 265/20R20(*) PSS or 265/35R19(*) PSC2 that come on the M3/4 are naturally all optimized as front tires. Switching these to generic specification tires has a good chance of reducing steering feel and feedback for more sensitive drivers.

If one wants to change tire size and/or tire brand it is important to do a fair bit of research to maintain optimal performance and the desired compromise. I tend to stick with "specific" tires designed for the desired application, albeit not necessarily a BMW star spec. For example, when increasing front tire size on my previous M4, I went with the 265/35R19(M0) PSS which is the front tire for the 9" wide wheel of the AMG GT-S, an ideal fit for the stock front 437M wheel .

Sadly, there is no ideal fit PS4S for the front 19" wheel.
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      03-25-2020, 03:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut View Post
all canadian (ROW as well?) CS come with 265 in the front.

I have stock MPSS right now but have PS4S waiting to go on sometime this summer.
Depends... CS with PSC2 have 265, however those fitted with PSS have 255 in front. If your CS came with PSS, you have 255

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut View Post
Never heard of anyone complaining doing a size for size change
Read post above regarding imapact of changing tire size and/or tire brand.
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      03-26-2020, 12:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Tire design is a very complex endeavour.

Tires designed as per car manufacturer specifications are not only optimized for a given vehicle but often also for a specific fitment (front/rear and wheel width) on that given vehicle. Usually, front tires have a more rounded contact patch to maximize steering while rear tires have squarer contact patch to maximize traction.

Tire manufacturers also sell generic tires, meaning that they are not designed for a specific application. Most generic tires are simply a compromise between front and rear application. However, sometimes tire manufacturers will give a bias towards a front or rear application depending on what that size of tire might more likely be used for.

Now, with that said, the 255/35R19(*) PSS, 265/20R20(*) PSS or 265/35R19(*) PSC2 that come on the M3/4 are naturally all optimized as front tires. Switching these to generic specification tires has a good chance of reducing steering feel and feedback for more sensitive drivers.

If one wants to change tire size and/or tire brand it is important to do a fair bit of research to maintain optimal performance and the desired compromise. I tend to stick with "specific" tires designed for the desired application, albeit not necessarily a BMW star spec. For example, when increasing front tire size on my previous M4, I went with the 265/35R19(M0) PSS which is the front tire for the 9" wide wheel of the AMG GT-S, an ideal fit for the stock front 437M wheel .

Sadly, there is no ideal fit PS4S for the front 19" wheel.
I'm going back to stock star spec tires. PS4S just do not feel near as good on the CS. It takes out all of the qualities that I love about the car.
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      03-26-2020, 06:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS_BMW View Post
I'm going back to stock star spec tires. PS4S just do not feel near as good on the CS. It takes out all of the qualities that I love about the car.
You might want to try the star spec PSC2. These are the real tires the CS was optimized for. They raise the performance and feel by another notch.
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      03-26-2020, 06:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS_BMW View Post
I'm going back to stock star spec tires. PS4S just do not feel near as good on the CS. It takes out all of the qualities that I love about the car.
You might want to try the star spec PSC2. These are the real tires the CS was optimized for. They raise the performance and feel by another notch.
I was thinking about that but worried about how long they will last and I hear they are horrible in the rain. It's my daily driver. 19k on it so far.
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      03-26-2020, 07:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS_BMW View Post
I was thinking about that but worried about how long they will last and I hear they are horrible in the rain. It's my daily driver. 19k on it so far.
My M4cs is also my daily driver. The PSC2 are perfectly fine for the DD.

I do track it a fair bit but have a dedicated set of track wheels and tires for the dry track (Apex EC-7 shod with NT01). Because my 763M setup is my DD and wet track setup, I originally intended to swap the PSC2 with PS4S once they were worn. However, after 18 months, the PSC2 really grew on me. I got to drive in heavy downpours on roadtrips without issue. I also had a very wet track day and they left me very impressed on how they performed on a completely drenched track. For sure, they are not as good as PSS or PS4S in heavy rain, but they are far from being as bad as many people pertain (especially at public road speeds). It has to be pointed out that they lose significant performance when operated in cold AND wet conditions (read below 5degC/40degF). They are still drivable, but caution with the throttle is needed (I've spun the tires at 70mph in 5th gear). My car came fitted with the PSS by error when I took delivery, so I drove on the PSS for 3 weeks before the dealer swapped them for the PSC2, so I had first hand impression of the difference between the two. I can attest that the PSC2 are better fitted to the CS character and enhance the CS experience in terms of handling performance, responsiveness and feel. They are a bit harsher and noisier, but that's part of the deal. To me they are worth the compromise and I will replace them with another set of PSC2 when they are due.
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      03-27-2020, 06:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS_BMW View Post
I was thinking about that but worried about how long they will last and I hear they are horrible in the rain. It's my daily driver. 19k on it so far.
My M4cs is also my daily driver. The PSC2 are perfectly fine for the DD.

I do track it a fair bit but have a dedicated set of track wheels and tires for the dry track (Apex EC-7 shod with NT01). Because my 763M setup is my DD and wet track setup, I originally intended to swap the PSC2 with PS4S once they were worn. However, after 18 months, the PSC2 really grew on me. I got to drive in heavy downpours on roadtrips without issue. I also had a very wet track day and they left me very impressed on how they performed on a completely drenched track. For sure, they are not as good as PSS or PS4S in heavy rain, but they are far from being as bad as many people pertain (especially at public road speeds). It has to be pointed out that they lose significant performance when operated in cold AND wet conditions (read below 5degC/40degF). They are still drivable, but caution with the throttle is needed (I've spun the tires at 70mph in 5th gear). My car came fitted with the PSS by error when I took delivery, so I drove on the PSS for 3 weeks before the dealer swapped them for the PSC2, so I had first hand impression of the difference between the two. I can attest that the PSC2 are better fitted to the CS character and enhance the CS experience in terms of handling performance, responsiveness and feel. They are a bit harsher and noisier, but that's part of the deal. To me they are worth the compromise and I will replace them with another set of PSC2 when they are due.
Do you think 10k miles is obtainable for a set of rear PSC2 with only street driving? I have also just found a 255/35/19 PS4S is star spec on tire rack.
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      03-27-2020, 06:39 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS_BMW View Post
Do you think 10k miles is obtainable for a set of rear PSC2 with only street driving? I have also just found a 255/35/19 PS4S is star spec on tire rack.
Yes but it depends on how you drive (e.g., do burn outs, etc.) and whether you also use them on track. I have a set of PSC2 on my M4 non-CS and currently have 15k street-only miles on them and not at the wear bars yet. The inner tread blocks use a harder compound compared to the much softer compound used on the outer tread block. Itís the harder inner compound that you generally ride on while DDíing. Also, Iíve experienced the same great wet performance and itís just a bit worse than PSS.

The 255/35-19 is the rear tire on the G20 3 series with a staggered wheel setup (225 F, 255 R).
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      03-27-2020, 10:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS_BMW View Post
Do you think 10k miles is obtainable for a set of rear PSC2 with only street driving? I have also just found a 255/35/19 PS4S is star spec on tire rack.
The 255/35R19(*) PS4S is the REAR tire for the G20 3-series 8.5” wheel. Not a good fit for our 9” front wheel.

How long tires last is highly dependant on your driving style, but IMO it’s not impossible to get 10k miles out of the PSC2.
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      Today, 09:33 AM   #16
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Itís the softer sidewalls causing this lack of precision. Tyres are accountable for a vast majority of what we feel when it comes to suspension and feedback through the steering feel.

The PSC2 has stiffer Ďshouldersí (where tread meets sidewall) than the PS4S/PSS, but the sidewall itself is still real relatively soft.

One thing I note is that in cold and wet conditions, thereís a subtle granularity through the steering wheel that even the PSS/PSC2 tyres have that makes the car much more enjoyable to steer. Iím not talking about grip at the limits of adhesion, but subtle ripples that come through the wheel which make you feel connected to the road. But this is inconsistent. In summer, this all but disappears with the soft Michelin tyres. (M2c running PSC2).


Iíd love to experience a tyre with all the benefits of premium tyres (good grip/longevity), but with the raw feedback provided by Toyo/Bridgestone/Nitto tyres with their ultra hard sidewalls. Unfortunately, the lower down the tyre hierarchy you go, the more sacrifices you end up making.
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      Today, 09:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_BMW View Post
It’s the softer sidewalls causing this lack of precision. Tyres are accountable for a vast majority of what we feel when it comes to suspension and feedback through the steering feel.

The PSC2 has stiffer ‘shoulders’ (where tread meets sidewall) than the PS4S/PSS, but the sidewall itself is still real relatively soft.

One thing I note is that in cold and wet conditions, there’s a subtle granularity through the steering wheel that even the PSS/PSC2 tyres have that makes the car much more enjoyable to steer. I’m not talking about grip at the limits of adhesion, but subtle ripples that come through the wheel which make you feel connected to the road. But this is inconsistent. In summer, this all but disappears with the soft Michelin tyres. (M2c running PSC2).


I’d love to experience a tyre with all the benefits of premium tyres (good grip/longevity), but with the raw feedback provided by Toyo/Bridgestone/Nitto tyres with their ultra hard sidewalls. Unfortunately, the lower down the tyre hierarchy you go, the more sacrifices you end up making.
Since the OP is in the USA, he's comparing his new PS4S to his previous PSS, not the PSC2 .
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      Today, 11:27 AM   #18
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Apologies, I was musing about tyres in general.

For the OP, if steering feel is a concern over outright wet performance, I would absolutely endorse switching to another tyre.

Every tyre, as we know, is a compromise between various factors. Personally, I donít care much for outright traction as I do steering feel. These cars canít match the traction of 4wd cars so itís a pointless exercise IMO.
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