Possible long term issues?

[dkhm3]

this thread is full of people with no major problems at all.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...043508&page=34

22k miles now and i am solid. plan on keeping this car for 6 years and 60-70k miles.

[W///]

Originally Posted by KevinM

I think the engine is probably OK - may need some walnut shell blasting given it is direct-injection, but otherwise should be solid. What worries me about keeping almost any new car long-term is the complicated electronics. These cars are rolling computers, and I replace my computer every three years...

It makes me a bit sad, but my E39 M5 and Z4M coupe may be the last BMWs that I keep long-term (although I might buy other older BMWs when they stop offering a manual transmission!).

I agree with you completely. The E series are very much DIY-able and don't have what I'd call an excessive amount of technology in it. Hell, our Z4M are downright simple compared to F chassis cars in general.

Personally, I might pick one of these up when people have owned and written DIYS for them.

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by zatbmw

I have one year left on my 2015 m4 lease and am contemplating purchasing (financing) the car when the lease is up. I have 15k miles per year on the lease, and the car will be right around the 45k mile mark by February 2018 when the lease is up.

My residual will be $44k.

I previously had an e92 m3 but ended up trading it in partly due to the whole rod bearing failure issue that some e92s were experiencing....got a little paranoid about a possible failure down the line.

This is my first turbo car, and so far the car has been pretty much issue-free aside from a programming issue with the A/C.

Are turbo engines more prone to breakdown/repair issues once at higher mileage?

I know that a lot of forum members recommend not keeping an M car out of warranty.....so basically, being how this engine is turbo is it even riskier to keep it out of warranty?

Are turbo engines more or less reliable in long term usage (past 100k miles) compared to a n/a engine?

Thanks guys.

Depends on the turbo engine. The Porsche Metzgar M96/72 is incredibly reliable and durable, but that case utilizes a true dry sump and was designed for the 911 GT1 LaManns Racer.

The problem arises when you take a "street" engine that was not necessarily designed and overbuilt for race track type abuse and squeeze hp out of up to the tolerances of its weakest links.

My concern with any BMW, much less the newer models with more electronics, is that they can seriously nickel and dime you to death once you get out warranty. That seems to be about the time a lot of items that are not overbuilt fail and perhaps they build to tolerances only designed to withstand certain mileage not too dissimilar from mfg of a light bulb.

Costs wise, it may be much cheaper to stay in a new M class with a factory warranty, especially if you can still get covered maintenance.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by apexit

My biggest concern is the crank hub issue that we still aren't sure what causes it and DCT issues. It's inherently clunky sometimes so it doesn't inspire confidence.

This specific DCT has been in the market since 2012 and has been paired with more powerful engines from the factory (up to 600hp) and has proven thus far to be quite sturdy and reliable. I would not be worried.

[NewM3driver]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

this thread is full of people with no major problems at all.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...043508&page=34

22k miles now and i am solid. plan on keeping this car for 6 years and 60-70k miles.

Maintenance and problems will occur.... but that is not the issue. Owning these cars long term as daily drivers make no sense. Over the course of time it is cheaper two stack two consecutive leases and drive two fresh cars than to purchase and pay for one car and the maintenance and repairs for that length of time.

[katit]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

Maintenance and problems will occur.... but that is not the issue. Owning these cars long term as daily drivers make no sense. Over the course of time it is cheaper two stack two consecutive leases and drive two fresh cars than to purchase and pay for one car and the maintenance and repairs for that length of time.

How so? My math shows different. 6 year loan gives smaller monthly and at the end I will have 20-30k if I sell. I can get CPO to 6/100k

With lease I would drive newer car year 4-6 but warranty-wise no difference and nothing at the end

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by katit

How so? My math shows different. 6 year loan gives smaller monthly and at the end I will have 20-30k if I sell. I can get CPO to 6/100k

With lease I would drive newer car year 4-6 but warranty-wise no difference and nothing at the end

Nothing at the end is the problem with the other posters logic

[RobbyMack]

There is this persistent myth that any BMW much less an M will detonate three miles past warrantee. If you truly believe that fear that then lease away.

[Jbmw21]

No worries here have mechanical breakdown insurance from Geico won't cover maintenance though but don't mind that

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

Maintenance and problems will occur.... but that is not the issue. Owning these cars long term as daily drivers make no sense. Over the course of time it is cheaper two stack two consecutive leases and drive two fresh cars than to purchase and pay for one car and the maintenance and repairs for that length of time.

I have owned several mb, and bmw's out of warranty and have had nothing happen to any of them (I sell between 70k-85k miles)

yes, there are some electronic issues, and sometimes an expense out of pocket for a minor issue, but do your research on the models and check for common problems prior to buying each car model.

I have rarely used cpo or extended warranties even after buying them.

certain sports cars/luxury cars it does make sense to lease, but the m3 is not one of them imho.

ATS-V has lost a LOT of value- here's a 6k mile '16 clean carfax that is listed for 50k, basically sitting there for months. this is where it made sense to lease if you can get a good rate.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...8217/overview/

My friend was in the market for a used m3 and gave up because there are basically no cars and the prices are too high.

[neilum]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

Maintenance and problems will occur.... but that is not the issue. Owning these cars long term as daily drivers make no sense. Over the course of time it is cheaper two stack two consecutive leases and drive two fresh cars than to purchase and pay for one car and the maintenance and repairs for that length of time.

Sorry bud this is way off.

Easy math here if you lease for 3 years at an average of $800 per month, that is $10K per year x 3 plus the $5,000 down payment to get begin the lease. That is roughly $35K total for a 3 year rental, basically. Stack that situation twice as you said for 6 years, and now you are over $70 thousand dollars after 6 years of leasing with literally nothing to show for it.

After 6 years of just buying it, you'd have paid the ~80K car off entirely, and have a minimum 25K resale value left + the one year were it was all yours with no car payment considering most loans are 60 months.

In fact owning it is way cheaper.

These cars have some minor issues that pop up sure, but you're assuming the motor/trans/turbos will just start to blow up after its 5 yrs old. It's just not how things work.


Back to reality, I am on the fence about owning this car long term. I'm not worried about something major breaking, but I simply may be willing to buck up and get a newer car by the time 2019 rolls around. The Alfa Giulia really has my attention, and the new M3 will most likely have a hybrid setup, which doesn't interest me at all.

[DandyKing]

30k here and its still running well. Had a ticking sound coming from engine but apparently i had busted a cooling line from a rock impact, got it fixed and now sound is gone.

[NewM3driver]

Originally Posted by katit

How so? My math shows different. 6 year loan gives smaller monthly and at the end I will have 20-30k if I sell. I can get CPO to 6/100k

With lease I would drive newer car year 4-6 but warranty-wise no difference and nothing at the end

$75,000 divided by 72 months at ZERO interest is $1,041. I haven't added in the additional 4 to 5 thousand dollars in sales tax you need to add to that loan. Add interest and you are adding $200 to $300 per month to that number.

My lease is around 700 bucks a month, including sales tax. I put at least 15,000 miles a year.... so at the end of 6 years I would have about 100,000 miles.

Who the hell is going to buy an outdated model M3 with 100,000 miles for $30,000 lol?

Further, the 400 bucks a month the lease saves adds up to $28,800 over 6 years.

High residuals and great lease rates make leasing a BMW a no brainer. Take advantage of multiple security deposits to further drive down the rate.

No better way to drive an expensive car inexpensively and worry free.

Further.... if you have a REAL problem with the car and are leasing, it's pretty easy to get a new replacement car. If you OWN it, not so easy

Not sure what math you are using.

[Stealthm4bcm]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

this thread is full of people with no major problems at all.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...08&page=34

22k miles now and i am solid. plan on keeping this car for 6 years and 60-70k miles.

Same boat as you. Just contemplating the best extended warranty options for a 2017 M4.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

$75,000 divided by 72 months at ZERO interest is $1,041. I haven't added in the additional 4 to 5 thousand dollars in sales tax you need to add to that loan. Add interest and you are adding $200 to $300 per month to that number.

My lease is around 700 bucks a month, including sales tax. I put at least 15,000 miles a year.... so at the end of 6 years I would have about 100,000 miles.

Who the hell is going to buy an outdated model M3 with 100,000 miles for $30,000 lol?

Further, the 400 bucks a month the lease saves adds up to $28,800 over 6 years.

High residuals and great lease rates make leasing a BMW a no brainer. Take advantage of multiple security deposits to further drive down the rate.

No better way to drive an expensive car inexpensively and worry free.

Further.... if you have a REAL problem with the car and are leasing, it's pretty easy to get a new replacement car. If you OWN it, not so easy

Not sure what math you are using.

Even using your example, let's say in total with interest etc you pay $80k over 6 years for the car and own it outright at the end. Let's its not worth $30k but instead worth $20k. If you sold it at that point you would have paid a net of $60k.

If you leased the same $75k M3 with no money down what would your payment be? $900+? Let's say it's $900. That's $32,400 over the lease term or $64,800 over two back to back lease terms to equal the 6 year example above. So you spend almost $5k more and have nothing to show for it in the end. You save $5k by buying and own the car outright and can keep it payment free as long as you like. Hmmm....

[NewM3driver]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Even using your example, let's say in total with interest etc you pay $80k over 6 years for the car and own it outright at the end. Let's its not worth $30k but instead worth $20k. If you sold it at that point you would have paid a net of $60k.

If you leased the same $75k M3 with no money down what would your payment be? $900+? Let's say it's $900. That's $32,400 over the lease term or $64,800 over two back to back lease terms to equal the 6 year example above. So you spend almost $5k more and have nothing to show for it in the end. You save $5k by buying and own the car outright and can keep it payment free as long as you like. Hmmm....

My no money down lease pmt is just shy of $700. You need to negotiate a great deal, take advantage of all promotional deals, drive events and security deposits. Do the math using 700/month. Further, in three years getting a fresh new car is nice.... dif color, switch up the options etc.

Owning a depreciating asset is not smart. Owning an M car is just not a good decision

Leases also have tax advantages, but I'm not even going to start explaining that.

[katit]

If you got 700 lease on 75k car than you can buy that same car for 65k. I admire your negotiation skills.

If you drive 15k a year for same 700 per mo even better for you. All I was able to do is invoice +$500 and to me purchase was better

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by katit

I don't think I will keep car past warranty either, but not because of fear. I think in 6 years there going to be something else. I'm sure iDrive will work just fine. Aftermarket will catch up with extras and upgrades to dated systems. My plan is 6 years.

Thanks. To clarify, I don't consider 6 years long-term and I'm sure all new BMWs will be fine within that timeframe. My comments were based on keeping one past 10 -15 years. But, as you state, technology may be developed to offer solutions for tech issues. It just seems that while tech used to be mainly for navigation/entertainment, it is now necessary to actually drive the car. That said, I'm all for advancement, which is why the M3's particular spot in my garage will likely be rotational.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

yalll soooo crazy thinking leasing is somehow going to put u ahead of buying. lay of the smack. you dont own shit....ps i am a leaser

[Skid123]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

My no money down lease pmt is just shy of $700. You need to negotiate a great deal, take advantage of all promotional deals, drive events and security deposits. Do the math using 700/month. Further, in three years getting a fresh new car is nice.... dif color, switch up the options etc.

Owning a depreciating asset is not smart. Owning an M car is just not a good decision

Leases also have tax advantages, but I'm not even going to start explaining that.

Sorry you focus too much on monthly payment and conveniently overlook that a great deal yields the same benefit either buying or leasing. Apple to apple pre sales tax, leasing costs least 3k more every 3 years. Low interest rate also goes both ways, as leasing with max MSD is roughly 2% but some credit unions have high 1% rate. Historically M3 holds its value well after the first 3 years so high residuals again apply to both. Tax advantage is the only true advantage and could be a great incentive, but not everyone can expense lease interest...

Back to topic, I am also in the camp of long-term ownership and asked similar question earlier. I came to realize this is really a gamble and it depends on whether you can DIY or find a good 3rd party shop to keep the expense under control. To me leasing has less uncertainty but I would be paying a lot for peace of mind in 7-10 years. The chance of needing to swap in a new engine and DCT is not that high and I would just buy extended warranty or go Geico to cover the potential risk.

[katit]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Thanks. To clarify, I don't consider 6 years long-term and I'm sure all new BMWs will be fine within that timeframe. My comments were based on keeping one past 10 -15 years. But, as you state, technology may be developed to offer solutions for tech issues. It just seems that while tech used to be mainly for navigation/entertainment, it is now necessary to actually drive the car. That said, I'm all for advancement, which is why the M3's particular spot in my garage will likely be rotational.

I sold 1997 540i6 in 2014. I think cars can be compared price-wise. I did all repairs and maintenance myself. Cost was about 1.5-2k in parts yearly. So, it was doable but taking to shop would be very expensive. I think F8x will be very similar.

[MrSmartyPants]

I think people need to remember that some of the real expensive electronics and the powertrain can be sourced used from parts dealers/junkyards. You're not limited to OEM in the long run.

At least thats what I'm telling myself. Intending to keep long term (pay off before my kids go to college and have something cool to drive while they are in). Then, god willing, its Porsche time.