Shop has recommended new battery. Thoughts? (Resolved - Battery is good!)

[codys21]

I thought our lithium ion batteries could be "revived" from completely dead.

Little background: I did a track day on Saturday and had the charging malfunction error come up and a little later had an error for low state of charge. I left early and the car completely died less than six miles from the track. Had it towed to BMW but it's been completely dead since Saturday afternoon. I was told the battery has been damaged by overworking for there's been no charge in the car for a long time. And they cannot (or are having trouble) charging the battery because the battery energy is really low so they recommend a new battery.

Does this seem normal? I've tried to do some searching and again I thought our lithium ion batteries could be revived from a situation like this.

Thanks!

[SCS55]

Originally Posted by codys21

I thought our lithium ion batteries could be "revived" from completely dead.

Little background: I did a track day on Saturday and had the charging malfunction error come up and a little later had an error for low state of charge. I left early and the car completely died less than six miles from the track. Had it towed to BMW but it's been completely dead since Saturday afternoon. I was told the battery has been damaged by overworking for there's been no charge in the car for a long time. And they cannot (or are having trouble) charging the battery because the battery energy is really low so they recommend a new battery.

Does this seem normal? I've tried to do some searching and again I thought our lithium ion batteries could be revived from a situation like this.

Thanks!

Damaged by "Overworking"? That's a vague description.
I've never heard of a battery overworking and in fact, the service manual actually states if the vehicle has been sitting for a while and has only encountered short trips, a long drive at highway speed is needed. I'm sure the track use definitely satisfied that RPM requirement.

I'm basically reading that it will not accept a charge due to the fact that it's been depleted to the point of no return. i.e will not except a charge. If that's the case, then I do believe a new battery is in order.
Charging history? Ctek ever used?
Driving history on the car?

[codys21]

Originally Posted by SCS55

Damaged by "Overworking"? That's a vague description.
I've never heard of a battery overworking and in fact, the service manual actually states if the vehicle has been sitting for a while and has only encountered short trips, a long drive at highway speed is needed. I'm sure the track use definitely satisfied that RPM requirement.

I'm basically reading that it will not accept a charge due to the fact that it's been depleted to the point of no return. i.e will not except a charge. If that's the case, then I do believe a new battery is in order.
Charging history? Ctek ever used?
Driving history on the car?

It became depleted because the alternator belt/pulley system broke while at the track. The car is driven every few days, no charger has ever been used (at least while I've owned it which has been since Dec 2020). It's a 2015 with ~45k miles. This was my first track day but otherwise it's my DD. I don't drive very often because I work from home but my wife takes it to work sometimes.

I agree "overworking" is a vague description. I'm hoping my belt/pulley can be repaired, they can jump the car, and the alternator can charge it back up to normal operating status.

[bsmf8x]

I've never heard of a belt/pulley issue on these cars. Are you tuned

[N1rve]

Sounds like you were running off battery power only because of no alternator. It also seems like the battery was drained, this can cause some damage to the battery as you're not supposed to deplete it. There are electronics in this battery so I wouldn't be surprised it broke something from running out of juice completely.

Did they try to charge it by itself and it's not taking a charge?

[SD ///M4]

The battery is likely in "battery isolation" mode because the battery dropped below 8V. This is a "safety switch" that protects the battery. You have to override this circuit by either jumping the battery and driving it until it gets up to the correct voltage, or by buying a special LiFePo battery charger that can override the protection circuit, allowing it to recondition and recharge the battery back to its proper condition.

Read this entire thread, particularly posts #26 and #29, about my experience when I thought I killed my battery: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...highlight=CTEK

Read this thread and try the solutions before you shell out >$1000 for a new battery.

EDITED TO ADD: Trying to recharge this battery with an ordinary AGM-type battery charger will not work, because it will not override the protection circuit. The CTEK battery charger I referenced in this other thread will do this.

Also, apparently, your BMW dealer knows nothing about these batteries or how to bring them back to life when they appear dead. Them saying that the battery was "overworked" is a huge red flag to me. They're trying to sell you on a new battery without knowing how to "fix" the original battery.

[speedracerM4]

There are a couple options out there to force charge a dead or safety mode battery. The ctek (bmw sells a rebranded ctek you can get from the dealership) and noco. I went with a noco genius 10 because it has modes for lithium, agm and lead acid.

[SCS55]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

The battery is likely in "battery isolation" mode because the battery dropped below 8V. This is a "safety switch" that protects the battery. You have to override this circuit by either jumping the battery and driving it until it gets up to the correct voltage, or by buying a special LiFePo battery charger that can override the protection circuit, allowing it to recondition and recharge the battery back to its proper condition.

Read this entire thread, particularly posts #26 and #29, about my experience when I thought I killed my battery: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...highlight=CTEK

Read this thread and try the solutions before you shell out >$1000 for a new battery.

EDITED TO ADD: Trying to recharge this battery with an ordinary AGM-type battery charger will not work, because it will not override the protection circuit. The CTEK battery charger I referenced in this other thread will do this.

Also, apparently, your BMW dealer knows nothing about these batteries or how to bring them back to life when they appear dead. Them saying that the battery was "overworked" is a huge red flag to me. They're trying to sell you on a new battery without knowing how to "fix" the original battery.

I'd like to second this ^^^^ and add that when I have my M3 on my CTEK it can take a long time usually an entire 24 hours plus before I get to either step #7 or #8. Point being, these batteries take a while absorbing power. On the other hand, my AGM e90 gets to the float charge within 4 to 5 hours.
I hope that helps.

[codys21]

Originally Posted by bsmf8x

I've never heard of a belt/pulley issue on these cars. Are you tuned

Nope, not tuned. But apparently it's not unheard in our cars
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1146559

[codys21]

Originally Posted by N1rve

Sounds like you were running off battery power only because of no alternator. It also seems like the battery was drained, this can cause some damage to the battery as you're not supposed to deplete it. There are electronics in this battery so I wouldn't be surprised it broke something from running out of juice completely.

Did they try to charge it by itself and it's not taking a charge?

Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure what they've done in terms of attempting to charge it. But that's kind of what it sounds like; that it's not taking a charge.

[codys21]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

The battery is likely in "battery isolation" mode because the battery dropped below 8V. This is a "safety switch" that protects the battery. You have to override this circuit by either jumping the battery and driving it until it gets up to the correct voltage, or by buying a special LiFePo battery charger that can override the protection circuit, allowing it to recondition and recharge the battery back to its proper condition.

Read this entire thread, particularly posts #26 and #29, about my experience when I thought I killed my battery: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...highlight=CTEK

Read this thread and try the solutions before you shell out >$1000 for a new battery.

EDITED TO ADD: Trying to recharge this battery with an ordinary AGM-type battery charger will not work, because it will not override the protection circuit. The CTEK battery charger I referenced in this other thread will do this.

Also, apparently, your BMW dealer knows nothing about these batteries or how to bring them back to life when they appear dead. Them saying that the battery was "overworked" is a huge red flag to me. They're trying to sell you on a new battery without knowing how to "fix" the original battery.

Hey, I actually found that thread a couple days ago and have read through all of that. But that's kind of what I'm hoping/thinking. I'd like to assume the dealership tried hooking this battery up to the proper charger instead of just a plain-Jane charger haha. But their quote to fix the belts/pulleys was exorbitant so I'm taking it (having to towed) to an indy shop. Hopefully they have the necessary charger though.

[codys21]

Originally Posted by SCS55

I'd like to second this ^^^^ and add that when I have my M3 on my CTEK it can take a long time usually an entire 24 hours plus before I get to either step #7 or #8. Point being, these batteries take a while absorbing power. On the other hand, my AGM e90 gets to the float charge within 4 to 5 hours.
I hope that helps.

Good to know it might a long time to get to step 7 or 8. I'll call the shop I'm taking the car to and hope they have a charger like this or the Noco one and warn them it could take a while.

[SCS55]

Originally Posted by codys21

Good to know it might a long time to get to step 7 or 8. I'll call the shop I'm taking the car to and hope they have a charger like this or the Noco one and warn them it could take a while.

Btw...2016 battery, daily driver, lots of highway action, plugging in exactly 25 hours ago and it just now hit "Float".

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by codys21

Good to know it might a long time to get to step 7 or 8. I'll call the shop I'm taking the car to and hope they have a charger like this or the Noco one and warn them it could take a while.

So what was the final outcome? Were you able to get the battery charged with a proper charger? Or did you have to buy a new battery?

Note that even though I had the CTEK Lithium battery charger, I had forgotten about the reset button, so I jumped my car to get it started and then went for an hour-long drive which got it above the 8V self-protection point . I put the CTEK charger on the car after that to get it fully reconditioned and recharged. The battery has been fine since the original incident.

[GP0256]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

The battery is likely in "battery isolation" mode because the battery dropped below 8V. This is a "safety switch" that protects the battery. You have to override this circuit by either jumping the battery and driving it until it gets up to the correct voltage, or by buying a special LiFePo battery charger that can override the protection circuit, allowing it to recondition and recharge the battery back to its proper condition.

Read this entire thread, particularly posts #26 and #29, about my experience when I thought I killed my battery: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...highlight=CTEK

Read this thread and try the solutions before you shell out >$1000 for a new battery.

EDITED TO ADD: Trying to recharge this battery with an ordinary AGM-type battery charger will not work, because it will not override the protection circuit. The CTEK battery charger I referenced in this other thread will do this.

Also, apparently, your BMW dealer knows nothing about these batteries or how to bring them back to life when they appear dead. Them saying that the battery was "overworked" is a huge red flag to me. They're trying to sell you on a new battery without knowing how to "fix" the original battery.

My car was delivered in an enclosed trailer with the keys in it the entire trip and it killed the battery somehow. Not sure what happened but I spent $89 on the CTEK Lithium Battery charger on Amazon and it did the trick. Back to normal now with no issues whatsoever over the past 5 weeks. I would try that before buying a new battery.

[codys21]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

So what was the final outcome? Were you able to get the battery charged with a proper charger? Or did you have to buy a new battery?

Note that even though I had the CTEK Lithium battery charger, I had forgotten about the reset button, so I jumped my car to get it started and then went for an hour-long drive which got it above the 8V self-protection point . I put the CTEK charger on the car after that to get it fully reconditioned and recharged. The battery has been fine since the original incident.

Not sure yet actually. I called the shop my car is at (no longer the BMW dealership) and told them the battery is dead but that it could be revived by being attached to a lithium (CTEK or similar) charger for an extended period of time. They actually said they didn't have a charger like that but one of the employees apparently did.

Unfortunately, there was a delay in my parts being shipped. Two arrived Thursday but the other five aren't arriving until Monday morning so my car isn't actually fixed yet.

I'll definitely update this post once my car gets fixed and the battery situation gets resolved one way or another.

[zillymc]

Originally Posted by GP0256

My car was delivered in an enclosed trailer with the keys in it the entire trip and it killed the battery somehow. Not sure what happened but I spent $89 on the CTEK Lithium Battery charger on Amazon and it did the trick. Back to normal now with no issues whatsoever over the past 5 weeks. I would try that before buying a new battery.

I did the same here about 6 months into the pandemic since my car was sitting for most of the week. I'd maybe drive it once a week and decided to get the CTEK Lithium charger as well.

[Hoppyumr]

Originally Posted by codys21

Not sure yet actually. I called the shop my car is at (no longer the BMW dealership) and told them the battery is dead but that it could be revived by being attached to a lithium (CTEK or similar) charger for an extended period of time. They actually said they didn't have a charger like that but one of the employees apparently did.

Unfortunately, there was a delay in my parts being shipped. Two arrived Thursday but the other five aren't arriving until Monday morning so my car isn't actually fixed yet.

I'll definitely update this post once my car gets fixed and the battery situation gets resolved one way or another.

I assume at least one of the parts in order is related to getting the charging system working again, like a new belt?? How exactly did you not know the alternator wasn't working? I'd think we'd get some sort of an alarm go off to let us know the charging system is malfunctioning. Finding it odd that the driver isn't notified, I'm surprised you would have kept driving. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[VChenz]

Once you the battery is charged. If it's still not working , try re registering it as a new battery for the car. This seems to have worked for some others in some previous threads I've read.


Alternatively, if you do have to buy a new battery, EAS is now selling a lightweight lithium replacement. Or you can Potentially buy a negative terminal from an F30 and use a standard lead acid battery after reprogramming the car to accept the new battery type.

[codys21]

Originally Posted by Hoppyumr

I assume at least one of the parts in order is related to getting the charging system working again, like a new belt?? How exactly did you not know the alternator wasn't working? I'd think we'd get some sort of an alarm go off to let us know the charging system is malfunctioning. Finding it odd that the driver isn't notified, I'm surprised you would have kept driving. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The car did alert me. To try to sum it up quickly, during the fourth session of the day, the idrive system alerted me "Charging malfunction. Battery is not recharging" I got off the track and opened the hood and didn't see any belts or anything out of whack. I did some quick Googling and didn't find anything conclusive (I now have and see others have had this same issue). After starting my car back up, the alert was not there so I went back out on the next session. The alert came back up pretty much right away so I did a few slow laps while on the idrive screen that shows the battery recovering energy while coasting and braking and this appeared fine. Then I got an alert for battery state of charge low. I got off the track and started asking around, got a voltmeter, and noticed the voltage was lower after the car was started than it was with the car off (12.55v vs 12.75v) so I knew then for sure the battery was not being charged. There wasn't anything I could do at the track (other than call a tow truck and in hindsight I absolutely would've done that) but figured I could drive to a repair shop. I made it less than six miles from the track with lights, radio, A/C, etc. all off.

The BMW dealership said the parts that need to be replaced are two belts, two pulleys, two bolts, and a tensioner.

[codys21]

Originally Posted by VChenz

Once you the battery is charged. If it's still not working , try re registering it as a new battery for the car. This seems to have worked for some others in some previous threads I've read.


Alternatively, if you do have to buy a new battery, EAS is now selling a lightweight lithium replacement. Or you can Potentially buy a negative terminal from an F30 and use a standard lead acid battery after reprogramming the car to accept the new battery type.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

[Hoppyumr]

Originally Posted by codys21

The car did alert me. To try to sum it up quickly, during the fourth session of the day, the idrive system alerted me "Charging malfunction. Battery is not recharging" I got off the track and opened the hood and didn't see any belts or anything out of whack. I did some quick Googling and didn't find anything conclusive (I now have and see others have had this same issue). After starting my car back up, the alert was not there so I went back out on the next session. The alert came back up pretty much right away so I did a few slow laps while on the idrive screen that shows the battery recovering energy while coasting and braking and this appeared fine. Then I got an alert for battery state of charge low. I got off the track and started asking around, got a voltmeter, and noticed the voltage was lower after the car was started than it was with the car off (12.55v vs 12.75v) so I knew then for sure the battery was not being charged. There wasn't anything I could do at the track (other than call a tow truck and in hindsight I absolutely would've done that) but figured I could drive to a repair shop. I made it less than six miles from the track with lights, radio, A/C, etc. all off.

The BMW dealership said the parts that need to be replaced are two belts, two pulleys, two bolts, and a tensioner.

Can I ask why the bolts, 2 pulleys and tensioner are part of the replacement? Did the tensioner give and screw stuff up, or are they wanting to replace it because they aren't bmw shiny? It's just odd to have to replace pulleys, but you did say you didn't see anything of when giving a look at the track and that the belts even appeared to be there. Have you been able to see further whether the bells are actually bad? Just seems like an odd parts list.

What's odd to me as well is that the energy recovery appeared to show charging when it actually wasn't for you. I'm wondering if that display is not truly based off of power flow actually going into the battery and based more off of the engine knowing it isn't being throttled so it must be coasting; it's all part of the MPG calculation, so it wouldn't really surprise me if they fake the information based on computed assumptions.