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06-28-2013, 04:36 PM | #89 |
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I dont really feel the low torque as much as it is claimed to be. When I need a sudden surge, I'll rev a little higher and drop it into gear for a quick mini launch whenever I need to - that's one advantage of an MT i guess.
Last edited by pkimM3r; 06-28-2013 at 04:43 PM.. |
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06-28-2013, 11:32 PM | #90 | |
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I've not spent much time in the 335i nor a nicely modified one, nonetheless, I can positively confirm and agree with your sentiments and word choices. I think you really hit the nail on the head. Of course we are all hoping that these essential elements that make an M3 an M3 will be mostly or even entirely present in the new car.
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06-30-2013, 03:09 PM | #91 | ||
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Would be interesting if BMW adapts some of the turbo technology that will be seen in F1 next year
Of particular interest is the MGU-H (Motor Generator Unit - Heat) that is attached to the turbo: Quote:
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Source: http://www.renaultsport.com/Nouvelle...Energy-F1.html |
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06-30-2013, 04:39 PM | #92 | ||
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06-30-2013, 06:19 PM | #93 |
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06-30-2013, 06:45 PM | #94 |
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07-01-2013, 03:26 AM | #95 |
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Ehh? Do what? Sound like a straight six at high revs?
My point was that a turbo'd 6 can sound pretty mean and with a higher pitch/scream than the V8 burble from the S65 engine (which also is a nice sound btw). I was replying to a post where it was stated that the new M3/M4 couldn't "do this", which obviously is correct. It can't sound like a US V8, as it's a straight 6 I posted a video of a turbo'd 6 cyl M3 that, IMHO, sounds awesome and more "exotic" than the V8 (again, nothing wrong with the sound of the S65 - it's just that a 6 sounds good as well). This might also be a cultural thing as Europeans aren't that used to hearing V8 burble in every second car. We have grown up with smaller engines with higher revs and a different sound characteristic. And the exotics with V8's have been flat plane crank engines, which also have a more high pitched sound. I think that both engine types sound good, in their own different way. Turbocharging unfortunately muffles some of the engine noise. It's a trade off between power potential, response, fuel economy etc. Just as a NA engine can be exhilarating, so can a good Turbo engine be as well |
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07-01-2013, 09:36 AM | #96 |
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I guess that we can suppose that new M3 will be very lag free. I rumor that engine will push on low revs and not dead until limiter has reached. Is technology something similar what Renault engineered, that is question.
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07-01-2013, 06:21 PM | #97 | |
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A turbo below 'boost threshold' and therefore not producing boost, cannot be labelled in any kind of 'turbo lag' situation, as it is physically outside of it's operating range. |
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07-01-2013, 06:40 PM | #98 | |
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07-01-2013, 07:35 PM | #99 |
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BMW needs to produce an engine that gets the job done. But not only that, a complete package. If your competition uses V8's etc, then don't be using an excuse of "we are not all about power, displacement, etc.) You are the M division and are you are supposed to be winners. The other name for second place is "1st losers". Produce the complete package, suspension, engine, transmission, etc. Put a price tag on it (whether 85 to 90k) and kick some A$$. I don't expect the new M3/M4 to be kicking the sh1t out of GTR's and GT3's, but I do expect it to beat any AMG and Audi RS, otherwise why are you evening making the vehicle then! This is your competition.
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07-01-2013, 09:05 PM | #100 | |
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07-02-2013, 03:16 AM | #101 | ||
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Not sure why you call a twin turbo "in-efficient"? Are you saying that the BMW M5/M6 engine uses in-efficient turbo design? A smaller turbo has lower inertia, quicker spool up etc. It's also easier to keep exhaust gas speed higher with smaller diameter tubing and inlet (can be done on a big turbo as well with advanced interior design of exhaust tubing). Regardless, a F1 engine that operates between 10-15000rpm during a lap (might not go as low as 10 grand either) does not need the same low rev driveability characteristics as a street car engine. And I feel that this quote from Renault's F1 department sums up the difference between a traditionally turbo'd engine and a NA engine: Quote:
By definition a turbo engine must have turbo lag under certain conditions, because "the turbocharger speed must vary to match the requirement of the engine". That's why rally cars have anti-lag devices and Renault's new F1 engine has the electric generator/motor unit to decrease lag to "near zero". Even with this tech, it won't be instantaneous. I guess there is a limit to how fast the system can react and spool up the turbo Last edited by Boss330; 07-02-2013 at 03:34 AM.. |
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07-02-2013, 07:52 AM | #102 | |
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07-02-2013, 08:01 AM | #103 | |
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It is interesting to me that, when looking at what's going on with IndyCar, even though a twin-turbo setup is allowed, Honda has chosen to use a single turbo (GM uses two). One advantage I think is that the single turbo engine is slightly lighter. I believe Honda has had more success to date, though it may have nothing to do with the induction setup on the engine (there has been a lot of controversy since BW redesigned the Honda compressor cover). Incidentally, the IndyCar engines have more displacement than the F1 engines (2.2L vs. 1.6L), but can only spin up to 12,000 RPM vs. 15,000 RPM for F1. As far as I know, these engines do not use any electric assist for the turbos like the F1 engines are slated to (thanks for posting all of the info, BTW, very interesting stuff) so it would be interesting to know how they perform as far as power delivery. |
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07-02-2013, 08:29 AM | #104 | |
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07-02-2013, 09:09 AM | #105 |
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With the competition getting better theme, I just read in Car and Drivers August 2013 issue on page 50, about the CLA 45 AMG. "We did the Nordschleife in 8:10, boasts AMG's head of development, Tobias Moers. It's a lofty boast; that's not far off what a V-8powered BMW M3 can do."
This is just the 2.0 liter turbocharged, entry level AMG car. I am a BMW fan and I am not advertising for AMG, but I am just proving a point that everyone is getting better in all aspects of performance (not just in a straight line). For someone to spend 50,000 and have this performance then an 80 to 90k M4 has to be able to distance itself from this considerably, and this isn't even the new C class AMG. |
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07-02-2013, 10:10 AM | #106 | |
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07-02-2013, 12:12 PM | #107 | |
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07-02-2013, 12:21 PM | #108 | |
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07-02-2013, 03:21 PM | #109 |
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Here are the laptimes around the ring. Isn't the end of the ring a long straight? 5 seconds at that speed is gobs of distance. lol.
http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=782836 |
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07-02-2013, 03:30 PM | #110 | |
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Yes turbo's have lag, but no different to the NA engine that has lag from idle to redline, as it never experiences the torque wave produced by FI. |
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