Spool Performance HPFP now available for the S55!

[Commanderwiggin]

S55 EU6 Injectors are: 821g/min
S63 EU5 Injectors are: 903g/min (BMW PN: 13647599876 Bosch PN: 0261500136)

Imo 30% over or 1067g/min Injectors would be a good starting point.

[TopJimmy]

I guess we need to wait for Tom to show the before and after dyno curves to see how much this setup adds.

[Bluer2]

Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin

S55 EU6 Injectors are: 821g/min
S63 EU5 Injectors are: 903g/min (BMW PN: 13647599876 Bosch PN: 0261500136)

Imo 30% over or 1067g/min Injectors would be a good starting point.

What are our injectors rated at? 750g/min?

[MJ6]

Originally Posted by M2C_OZ

if injectors are a limiting factor what is an upgraded HPFP gonna do to help supply more fuel ???

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

Just having upgraded HPFPs won't make bigger injectors flow more, but bigger injectors might also push stock pumps to their limit too often.

These are exactly the questions I'm hoping that Tom can provide some clarity to.

From what I've gathered, for 100% E85 tunes on aftermarket turbos the limiting factor is a drop in fuel pressure as opposed to the injectors being unable to keep up. This to me says that the stock injectors still have some room on the table; exactly how much room is up for debate.

On the topic of injector size, I'd imagine that PI would likely offer a higher ceiling in terms of available fuel load being that the fuel-it system essentially doubles injector capacity via redundancy (12 injectors as opposed to 6). When it comes to fueling needs though, does anyone know the extent of how much additional fuel is actually needed? I mean I see the fuel-it system offering 550cc - 950cc injectors, but how much of that capacity is actually needed in order to keep fuel trims stable? Could the stock injectors actually flow an adequate amount with the HPFP upgrade to negate the difference?

Everything is theoretical until we actually see results...

[Commanderwiggin]

Originally Posted by Bluer2

What are our injectors rated at? 750g/min?

S55 821g/min is what I have.

[TopJimmy]

Just googling the injector sites I see that a conversion can be done into pounds of fuel per hour for both specs:

S55 DI @ 821g/min converts to 108.6lb/hr (52.1% more than 750cc PI)
S63 DI @ 903g/min converts to 119.4lb/hr (9.95% more than S55 DI)

Add PI @ 750cc/min converts to 71.4lb/hr (65.75% more than S55 DI)
Add PI @ 950cc/min converts to 90.4lb/hr (83.24% more than S55 DI)

Disclaimers: this was from Google, not physics class. Max safe flow is 80% as per Bosch, but that's the same across the board, so irrelevant. The late-night calcs above may be wrong, but they do pass a quick smell test... It makes sense that the DI that BMW picked for S55 flows about 50% more than typical old 750cc port injection. It also seems that just the DI upgrade gets you 10% more (lets say 20% just for fun, if these new HPFPs work added miracles). By adding 750cc PI to stock DI it seems you can flow 65% more.

Last thought...above may be completely wrong.

-TJ

[///BMW Junkie]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

Just googling the injector sites I see that a conversion can be done into pounds of fuel per hour for both specs:

S55 DI @ 821g/min converts to 108.6lb/hr (52.1% more than 750cc PI)
S63 DI @ 903g/min converts to 119.4lb/hr (9.95% more than S55 DI)

Add PI @ 750cc/min converts to 71.4lb/hr (65.75% more than S55 DI)
Add PI @ 950cc/min converts to 90.4lb/hr (83.24% more than S55 DI)

Disclaimers: this was from Google, not physics class. Max safe flow is 80% as per Bosch, but that's the same across the board, so irrelevant. The late-night calcs above may be wrong, but they do pass a quick smell test... It makes sense that the DI that BMW picked for S55 flows about 50% more than typical old 750cc port injection. It also seems that just the DI upgrade gets you 10% more (lets say 20% just for fun, if these new HPFPs work added miracles). By adding 750cc PI to stock DI it seems you can flow 65% more.

Last thought...above may be completely wrong.

-TJ

Even if completely wrong, this is awesome!

[MJ6]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Not enough info gathered to post yet. We'll post once the other M4 is finished tuning.

Any updates? We're all here waiting with baited breath on the results
Even if the comparative data isn't complete, did you notice any measurable increase in fueling capacity with the upgraded HPFP and stock injectors on the first customers car?

[sly1types]

Nothing this monumental is out this long without results unless it doesn’t work...

[MJ6]

Originally Posted by sly1types

Nothing this monumental is out this long without results unless it doesn't work...

Not going to lie, the lack of quantifiable data from both manufacturer and third-party sources is disconcerting

**edit **
I did receive an answer from Spool regarding supported output, but no definitive plots to verify unfortunately.

[Bluer2]

If that is true that means M5 injectors will handle up to 825whp on full E with the Spool HPFP.

[TopJimmy]

I'm not sure where the S55 data for their statement of 750whp for E85 on stock injectors (without PI or Meth) comes from. The F80Paul website shows the upper limit of full E85 on stock injectors at 575whp with stock turbos. With big turbos you can hit 650whp but you need to reduce E content to E50 or the stock fuel system maxes out. To hit 750whp you need big turbos with E85 and PI.

Right now we are getting best power using E80 with stock turbos and stock fuel system.

Sorry if it seems I'm negative on Spool but I'm not. I would just like to see some good comparison datalogs or dyno pulls to see the value.

[Bluer2]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

I'm not sure where the S55 data for their statement of 750whp for E85 on stock injectors (without PI or Meth) comes from. The F80Paul website shows the upper limit of full E85 on stock injectors at 575whp with stock turbos. With big turbos you can hit 650whp but you need to reduce E content to E50 or the stock fuel system maxes out. To hit 750whp you need big turbos with E85 and PI.

Right now we are getting best power using E80 with stock turbos and stock fuel system.

Sorry if it seems I'm negative on Spool but I'm not. I would just like to see some good comparison datalogs or dyno pulls to see the value.

the hpfp start crashing first before the injectors. you need to upgrade the hpfp first to find the limit of the stock injectors. am i right?

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by Bluer2

the hpfp start crashing first before the injectors. you need to upgrade the hpfp first to find the limit of the stock injectors. am i right?

This may be the case with large turbos. With stock turbos and E80/85 we haven't crashed the HPFPs yet...but we're still doing tune revisions.

[///BMW Junkie]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

I'm not sure where the S55 data for their statement of 750whp for E85 on stock injectors (without PI or Meth) comes from. The F80Paul website shows the upper limit of full E85 on stock injectors at 575whp with stock turbos. With big turbos you can hit 650whp but you need to reduce E content to E50 or the stock fuel system maxes out. To hit 750whp you need big turbos with E85 and PI.

Right now we are getting best power using E80 with stock turbos and stock fuel system.

Sorry if it seems I'm negative on Spool but I'm not. I would just like to see some good comparison datalogs or dyno pulls to see the value.

I'm assuming from their testing. 🤷🏼 If I could push up to 750 with their HPLP/LPFP alone, I'd be happy.

[Bluer2]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Not enough info gathered to post yet. We'll post once the other M4 is finished tuning.

Tom, where you at? How long does it take to tune this thing?

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Bluer2

Tom, where you at? How long does it take to tune this thing?

Brand new Carbahn engine was recently installed, still going through break-in.

[MJ6]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Brand new Carbahn engine was recently installed, still going through break-in.

While we're waiting for comparative results, are there any preliminary insights you could perhaps sate our appetites with as it pertains to the first vehicle?
Does the kit show promise from a tuning standpoint?
Are the units solid from a quality point of view?

[MJ6]

Just a heads up for those waiting for additional HPFP offerings.

Looks like 2021 might be off to a good start.



I've also been speaking to a representative from Kratos and was informed that their Engineering Department has been working with Dorch Engineering in the testing of these units, as well as testing a Bosch injector upgrade that will be compatible with the stock fueling system.

I don't know about y'all, but those are two announcements that I'm now anxiously awaiting to be released.

[///BMW Junkie]

Originally Posted by MJ6

Just a heads up for those waiting for additional HPFP offerings.

Looks like 2021 might be off to a good start.

Attachment 2484992

I've also been speaking to a representative from Kratos and was informed that their Engineering Department has been working with Dorch Engineering in the testing of these units, as well as testing a Bosch injector upgrade that will be compatible with the stock fueling system.

I don't know about y'all, but those are two announcements that I'm now anxiously awaiting to be released.

Thanks for sharing, awesome news!

[Dippydo]

With the cost of the HPFP, I am not sure why PI is not an option. Right now the Spool pumps cost more than even a stage 4 Fuel it kit at regular price.

[MJ6]

Originally Posted by Dippydo

With the cost of the HPFP, I am not sure why PI is not an option. Right now the Spool pumps cost more than even a stage 4 Fuel it kit at regular price.

True, and nothing against port injection at all, I'd just prefer to go the HPFP route and avoid the necessity of an additional controller right now.