CSs won't hold value/be desirable over time because of DCT - do you agree?

[E46M3forRay]

Out of the 2 model CSs, the M3 will be more sought after holding its value higher than the M4.

Note that only 607 M3 CS are the the US. Much less now due to some have been totaled.

and that’s a good thing for me if I ever let my M3 CS go.

[IB M]

Originally Posted by 786

Why do you assume a GTS is only meant for the track? I use mine exclusively as a fun street car and love it for that purpose. Even if you wanted one solely for the track what "much better options" are there for the money ($80k)?

Also, lol at "CS = GTS", not even close. A CS wasn't even in consideration when I was shopping. Those will depreciate a lot more in the years to come imo. Not special enough and they made too many.

GTS vs CS is interesting

GTS is more bespoke and limited but IMO it is less aesthetically appealing for general duty. It belongs on the track soaked in brake dust with bits of rubber sticking to its face. The orange highlights and wing make it a tad boy racer for the street. The GTS will command higher prices long term but the CS won't be far behind especially if buyers want a street-able car in a vibrant color like SMB or Melbourne Red with the beautiful 763 wheels.

[scoale]

Originally Posted by IB M

GTS vs CS is interesting

GTS is more bespoke and limited but IMO it is less aesthetically appealing for general duty. It belongs on the track soaked in brake dust with bits of rubber sticking to its face. The orange highlights and wing make it a tad boy racer for the street. The GTS will command higher prices long term but the CS won't be far behind especially if buyers want a street-able car in a vibrant color like SMB or Melbourne Red with the beautiful 763 wheels.

Completely agree.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by scoale

Agree, if starting with a comp pack, you can tune CS steering and suspension. You can also swap to CS 763 wheels and tire sizes (19f/20b). At that point, you pretty much have a CS sans the xtra CF bits (hood, etc). Definitely makes sense to go this direction if you want best of CS w/ manual transmission.

You would also need to swap the front sway bar. The EDC is optimized to work with the complete CS suspension setup including R-comp tires, doing a partial will yield suboptimal results.

The "CF" bits are also aerodynamically functional. The front splitter, hood and rear gurney flap work in unison to generate downforce. A base/CP M4 has net lift at speed while the CS has net downforce. The hood also contribures to improve the flow through the radiators.

Originally Posted by scoale

Just wish comp package had come like this from the start.

It couldn't have. It is not a single element that makes the CS what it is. It is the small increments in every area that make it an all around better car. It is the small increase in power/torque, the small weight reduction, the added downforce and the suspension plus EDC/ABS/EPS/e-diff tuned for stickier R-comp tires that all add up to more than the sum the individual parts. The fact that I am 2.5 seconds faster with my CS around my local track than I was with my previous M4 on the same tires is a testament to how it all came together for the CS.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by 786

Why do you assume a GTS is only meant for the track? I use mine exclusively as a fun street car and love it for that purpose. Even if you wanted one solely for the track what “much better options” are there for the money ($80k)?

Also, lol at “CS = GTS”, not even close. A CS wasn’t even in consideration when I was shopping. Those will depreciate a lot more in the years to come imo. Not special enough and they made too many.

Because BMW said so.

What is the point of a roll cage or aero only effective at 100+mph on a street car ?

That doesn't mean owners cannot use them strickly for street use, but the design intent for the GTS still was a dedicated track car than can be driven to and from the track (still street legal). The GTS is definitely a more bespoke and special machine than the CS.

I personally wished more of the GTS would have trickled down to the CS. What kept me out of the GTS is the lack of practicality (my M4 is my daily driver and I have 2 kids). The CS would have been perfect IMO would they have just included the GTS' water injected engine and Ti exhaust, and MP-HAS.

[spool twice]

I too wish they would have included more GTS bits standard like the titanium exhaust, I bet it would sound heavenly as an equal-length set-up.

The GTS definitely has leveled out and probably appreciating. Exactly like how small production and BMW sub-set M models have done. The GTS is definitely a good long-term used car buy, hopefully the CS ends up being the same with, though it also makes a decent long-term new car buy with the discounts absorbing 1st year depreciation.

[786]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Because BMW said so.

What is the point of a roll cage or aero only effective at 100+mph on a street car ?

That doesn't mean owners cannot use them strickly for street use, but the design intent for the GTS still was a dedicated track car than can be driven to and from the track (still street legal). The GTS is definitely a more bespoke and special machine than the CS.

I personally wished more of the GTS would have trickled down to the CS. What kept me out of the GTS is the lack of practicality (my M4 is my daily driver and I have 2 kids). The CS would have been perfect IMO would they have just included the GTS' water injected engine and MP-HAS.

Where did BMW say the GTS was only meant for the track?

If I follow your logic what’s the point of having a street car that can go faster than the speed limit? Even a regular M4 would then be ‘unnecessary’ right? For example, the roll cage makes the car stiffer, which in turn makes the driving experience better. The GTS feels connected in a way I’ve not felt in any other M4 variant. What’s the point of a loud full titanium exhaust? Because it sounds awesome. All the changes add to the driving experience.

Imo, if the design intent was track only they wouldn’t have developed the car on the Nurburgring. That’s a very bumpy track in places and has all manner of cambers etc. Developing it there and achieving a good lap time (faster than a CGT) means it’ll work well on the street. The factory KW 3-ways feel amazing on the street.

Also, I like that the GTS feels so focused and uncompromising. Makes the driving experience all the more special. If it was practical enough to daily I wouldn’t be interested. I have a boring practical daily, so I look forward to driving the GTS and it never fails to impress.

I come from the Porsche world where everything is overpriced and a pita to get. The GTS is a hidden gem and such a good value to me. Maybe the same will be said about the CS in a few years, but I’d guess it’s not done depreciating.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by 786

Where did BMW say the GTS was only meant for the track?

If I follow your logic what’s the point of having a street car that can go faster than the speed limit? Even a regular M4 would then be ‘unnecessary’ right? For example, the roll cage makes the car stiffer, which in turn makes the driving experience better. The GTS feels connected in a way I’ve not felt in any other M4 variant. What’s the point of a loud full titanium exhaust? Because it sounds awesome. All the changes add to the driving experience.

Imo, if the design intent was track only they wouldn’t have developed the car on the Nurburgring. That’s a very bumpy track in places and has all manner of cambers etc. Developing it there and achieving a good lap time (faster than a CGT) means it’ll work well on the street. The factory KW 3-ways feel amazing on the street.

Also, I like that the GTS feels so focused and uncompromising. Makes the driving experience all the more special. If it was practical enough to daily I wouldn’t be interested. I have a boring practical daily, so I look forward to driving the GTS and it never fails to impress.

I come from the Porsche world where everything is overpriced and a pita to get. The GTS is a hidden gem and such a good value to me. Maybe the same will be said about the CS in a few years, but I’d guess it’s not done depreciating.

In the GTS press release:

With its powerful, motorsport-inspired looks and high-performance technology, the BMW M4 GTS has its sights set squarely on the race track.

We’ve taken a radical route with the set-up of the BMW M4 GTS to create a sports machine for the race track that delivers top-end dynamics and inspirational performance.

I also remember reading an article that defined the ///M model hierarchy. It went something like this

• Base=Daily use + Racetrack
• Competition= Daily use + Racetrack with enhanced performance
• CS= Racetrack optimized + daily use
• CSL(GTS)= Born for the Racetrack but still street legal (to drive to and from the track)

And yes, many cars are overly capable for the street. I personally have bought all my ///M to serve the dual duty of daily driver and track toy. If I were not to track my cars, I would have gotten something else, as there is no way to exploit the performance envelope of these cars within a reasonable margin of what is sane on public roads.

Like I said, nothing wrong to use a GTS on the street only, but that was not its design intent.

[trendy26]

Originally Posted by 786

How many did they end up making? If it's more than a couple thousand it's not really collectible (if you're into that sort of thing). Cars have to be really limited to be considered collectibles, and even then it's not assured. So I wouldn't assume any sort of collectibility will help buoy values for the CS.

My GTS is the perfect example, the first owner paid $135k for it and they only made 800 worldwide, it's now in the $80s used (with low miles). By your logic it should've retained a lot more value. Why would you assume the CS would depreciate less? A car that's less special, with much higher production numbers?

I hate to burst your bubble buddy, but there's much more of a market for the CS when compared to the GTS. The majority of people will not consider the GTS as a street car and pretty much appeal only to the crowd who want a dedicated track car.

I wouldn't be surprised if the GTS prices eventually fall below the CS prices. It's just not as appealing, hence why you were able to get yours for $80K. A couple years down the road it'll probably be worth $50-$60K....

[786]

Originally Posted by trendy26

I hate to burst your bubble buddy, but there's much more of a market for the CS when compared to the GTS. The majority of people will not consider the GTS as a street car and pretty much appeal only to the crowd who want a dedicated track car.

I wouldn't be surprised if the GTS prices eventually fall below the CS prices. It's just not as appealing, hence why you were able to get yours for $80K. A couple years down the road it'll probably be worth $50-$60K....

Lol, ok.

[Bimmed Out]

Originally Posted by Slowphiveo

Disagree because in a few years no one will know how to drive a manual trans car.

lol wut

[Secret Chimp]

Originally Posted by 786

Lol, ok.

a few CS owners in this thread might be high on their own farts. ;P

Both trim levels will hold their values better than the regular M4. The GTS is already increasing in value (though it might be short term) and the CS likely will increase eventually as well.

[MikeCH]

Originally Posted by trendy26

I hate to burst your bubble buddy, but there's much more of a market for the CS when compared to the GTS. The majority of people will not consider the GTS as a street car and pretty much appeal only to the crowd who want a dedicated track car.

I wouldn't be surprised if the GTS prices eventually fall below the CS prices. It's just not as appealing, hence why you were able to get yours for $80K. A couple years down the road it'll probably be worth $50-$60K....

WAT?!

I own an M4 CS (my DD) and it does not compare to a GTS... The GTS is better in all aspects and a lot more exclusive. You have probably never driven one to say the contrary.
Sorry but only people short on cash (or parking ******* for a second car would choose a CS over a GTS if they were priced similarly.
In Europe the price gap between them is huge, the GTS costs almost 2x a CS.
In the long run the GTS is a lot more likely to hold its value compared to a CS.