Car and Driver M4cs Test

[BMWsully]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

Guys seriously ... 66lb weight savings is not even 2% of the car's weight... let's put things
into perspective.

Yes, let's ignore every other change besides the weight savings. The car is greater than the sum of its parts, trust me.

Instead of popping in to every CS thread, why don't you use that time to go drive one?

[RustySeatbelt]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

Guys seriously ... 66lb weight savings is not even 2% of the car's weight... let's put things
into perspective.

What perspective? I've seen a lot of money get spent to save very little weight in relation to the overall weight of the car. Generally the relationship you're pointing out doesn't matter, it's more important where that weight is being saved from. Saving 100lbs from the passenger cabin isn't going to be nearly as beneficial as saving 30 pounds of unsprung weight.

[stevehifi]

definitely those 763M wheels are nice in terms of weight savings.. probably the most significant weight savings of the car overall since its unsprung mass.

I was thinking of getting a set of 763Ms with PSCup2s to replace the 666M boat anchors.

[nicknaz]

If I was shopping for m4 anyway and could get m4cs close to pricing for m4 zcp (which seems possible based on all the deals shown on the forums?), it’s a no brainer regardless of what magazines say.

[Cars are the new horse]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

If I was shopping for m4 anyway and could get m4cs close to pricing for m4 zcp (which seems possible based on all the deals shown on the forums?), it’s a no brainer regardless of what magazines say.

Strongly disagree, but it depends on what matters to you. For me, the best blend of luxury/convenience is ZCP (where you get leather materials, a full door panel, and, most importantly comfort access). I get that people who spend more time at the track would want the CS, however.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by nirvanayoda

Strongly disagree, but it depends on what matters to you. For me, the best blend of luxury/convenience is ZCP (where you get leather materials, a full door panel, and, most importantly comfort access). I get that people who spend more time at the track would want the CS, however.

It’s mind boggling for me that comfort access and center console are deal breakers; we will need to agree to disagree on this one.

I wish the base m3 was the CS (with cup 2 tires) and that you could add back in comfort access and leather as part of a “touring package” and PSS tires as part of “commuter package”

And “competition package” should have a transponder, cage, harnesses and fixed back bucket seats and data logger, but that’s never going to happen. Black rear emblems it is!

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

It’s mind boggling for me that comfort access and center console are deal breakers; we will need to agree to disagree on this one.

I use my comfort access at least twice per day. At least once per week, I also have my hands full and I kick open my trunk with my foot. I have not had to fish a key out of my pocket since ... wow, maybe 2005? Or was it 2000?

and my heated steering wheel, well, I might die without that

The CS goodies are designed for the track and I get the value in those features for those who it matters to (CanAutM3 )

But for me, going to the track might be a once a year thing so I would be trading daily comfort features that mean a lot more to me than track focused features. In short, I would not take the CS, because it is not right for me - even if it was the same price.

At the end of the day, the real argument is, what exactly did BMW gain by removing those features and would their time have been better spent on something else to make the car faster/better handling rather than de-contenting and while adding significant price.

[Keca10]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I use my comfort access at least twice per day. At least once per week, I also have my hands full and I kick open my trunk with my foot. I have not had to fish a key out of my pocket since ... wow, maybe 2005? Or was it 2000?

and my heated steering wheel, well, I might die without that

The CS goodies are designed for the track and I get the value in those features for those who it matters to (CanAutM3 )

But for me, going to the track might be a once a year thing so I would be trading daily comfort features that mean a lot more to me than track focused features. In short, I would not take the CS, because it is not right for me - even if it was the same price.

At the end of the day, the real argument is, what exactly did BMW gain by removing those features and would their time have been better spent on something else to make the car faster/better handling rather than de-contenting and while adding significant price.

+1. Plus I wanted a manual.

I do get the love for he CS. It’s sweet and special. Just not the right car for me.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by doug_999

At the end of the day, the real argument is, what exactly did BMW gain by removing those features and would their time have been better spent on something else to make the car faster/better handling

Actually, that's exactly what they did. They made the M4cs faster and better handling than the CP

However I perfectly understand why some prefer an M4CP over an M4cs. As I've said many times before, the M4cs is not meant for everyone. It's great that we have the choice.

[kss]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

If I was shopping for m4 anyway and could get m4cs close to pricing for m4 zcp (which seems possible based on all the deals shown on the forums?), it’s a no brainer regardless of what magazines say.

The ZCP cars are also discounted. Last year my ZCP M3 was $28k off, this year they have a ZCP M4 for $12k off, while the M3 CS is only $2k off.

So it’s not like you would be comparing a discounted CS to an MSRP ZCP.

[trendy26]

Originally Posted by kss

The ZCP cars are also discounted. Last year my ZCP M3 was $28k off, this year they have a ZCP M4 for $12k off, while the M3 CS is only $2k off.

So it's not like you would be comparing a discounted CS to an MSRP ZCP.

I'm getting $30K off a '19 M4CS and basically paying peanuts to drive it. I do prefer a manual transmission as well as would like the comfort access and center console. At the end of the day, the CS is a superior car to the ZCP and the fact that it's over $100+ less per month on a lease, it was a no brainer for me. Worse case I'm not happy with it, the lease is only 24 months and I could easily transfer the lease being that the payment is in the mid $700's.

I had a '17 M4 Base with Manual of which I loved. Yet now I'm getting an M4 that has a sticker that's $34K higher than my Base M4, yet comes with the same monthly payment as well as 1 year shorter lease. No brainer for me!

[shortseller]

Originally Posted by kss

The ZCP cars are also discounted. Last year my ZCP M3 was $28k off, this year they have a ZCP M4 for $12k off, while the M3 CS is only $2k off.

So it’s not like you would be comparing a discounted CS to an MSRP ZCP.

Price of admission is worth it for the hood alone, it’s gorgeous (in an American muscle kind of way)if that floats your boat. That and the limited production run make it worth chasing. With that said, the CP is comfortable and has fixed a lot of the negatives from the original model and I believe does put it in the sweet spot of the range. Unless you’re a serious track enthusiast, to which the GTS might be a better fit. The CS seems to appeal to a very narrow car buyer, you lucky ones!

[blinkme323]

So as someone who has owned a 16 base M3, a 17 M3 ZCP and now an 18 CS, I think I can speak with some degree of authority on the differences between the three models (good and bad).

First off, I was VERY nervous coming from an MT car to the DCT of the CS. It has been almost 15 years since I owned a car with anything other than a manual, so you can understand my hesitation. To my surprise though, I have rarely missed my manual, as the DCT really is fantastic (why BMW is phasing it out, I don't know).

Secondly, I am not a blind BMW fan boy, I wasn't happy with many aspects of the base M3 and voiced them accordingly. I also was very happy with the ZCP and how it corrected many of those foibles. I'd also gladly trash the CS if it weren't up to snuff, but thankfully it is

Now on to the important stuff - I have logged hundreds of hours of track time in the F8x M3 (and plenty in commute time as well). I can easily say that the CS is markedly better than the base and ZCP in every relevant metric. The handling is tighter, it's more well balanced, power delivery is more linear, I can go on and on and on... The difference is so striking that I'm absolutely certain that BMW tweaked other aspects of this car that have just not been advertised.

As for the negatives, there is really only one for me, and that's the loss of comfort access. I don't even notice the loss of the console / armrest, but the damn comfort access gets me every time. It doesn't hinder my enjoyment of the car, but I'd def like to have it back.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Actually, that's exactly what they did. They made the M4cs faster and better handling than the CP
.

Not what I said... I think we can all agree that removing those features saved negligible weight. My point/comment was - what if they had spent that time, the time spent removing features on other parts of the car and made it even faster and better handling?

Heck, leave those features in, save the engineering (and cost) and you probably have a car that performs the exact same....

[trendy26]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Not what I said... I think we can all agree that removing those features saved negligible weight. My point/comment was - what if they had spent that time, the time spent removing features on other parts of the car and made it even faster and better handling?

Heck, leave those features in, save the engineering (and cost) and you probably have a car that performs the exact same....

I definitely agree with you there. I don't quite understand removing things such as Comfort Access and Center Console, as that weight is not negligible in the least bit. Door panels as well for that matter....

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Not what I said... I think we can all agree that removing those features saved negligible weight. My point/comment was - what if they had spent that time, the time spent removing features on other parts of the car and made it even faster and better handling?

Heck, leave those features in, save the engineering (and cost) and you probably have a car that performs the exact same....

What engineering and cost?

Comfort access is simply an option that is not included. No cost here. The single zone climate control is the base system on the 3/4-series, there's no engineering or cost with not including the heavier dual zone system. Same for the Hi-Fi sound system, there's no engineering or cost with not offering the heavier optional HK sound system. The same applies to the heated steering wheel. The lightweight door cards were simply taken off the GTS and also contribute to the enhanced driving experience from the reduced sound deadening. And I actually like the fact that they removed the center armrest for the improved elbow room it provides.

These were in fact easy and cost effective ways to remove weight while enhancing the driving experience. In terms of weight, every bit counts. But I also agree that that there is also some marketing behind this.

[spool twice]

bmw creates a model that delivers a more raw driving experience (like what an M3/M4 used to be), bmw owners complain that it lacks too many comfort/luxury features....go figure?

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I use my comfort access at least twice per day. At least once per week, I also have my hands full and I kick open my trunk with my foot. I have not had to fish a key out of my pocket since ... wow, maybe 2005? Or was it 2000?

and my heated steering wheel, well, I might die without that

The CS goodies are designed for the track and I get the value in those features for those who it matters to (CanAutM3 )

But for me, going to the track might be a once a year thing so I would be trading daily comfort features that mean a lot more to me than track focused features. In short, I would not take the CS, because it is not right for me - even if it was the same price.

At the end of the day, the real argument is, what exactly did BMW gain by removing those features and would their time have been better spent on something else to make the car faster/better handling rather than de-contenting and while adding significant price.

That's the point I was trying to make as well. How much were they really giving up (laptime or grams) by keeping a few extra convenience features? I understand trying to cut each and very gram since that's what we do in the automotive industry in general, but I'd argue the usefulness of those features outweigh the performance impact. Maybe it was just cost-cutting? idk, but obviously they aren't making as much profit on the CS's as they initially wanted/expected.

I do like the idea of better aligned packages. BASE to COMP to CS feature wise.

[M3GymNut]

Originally Posted by trendy26

I'm getting $30K off a '19 M4CS and basically paying peanuts to drive it. I do prefer a manual transmission as well as would like the comfort access and center console. At the end of the day, the CS is a superior car to the ZCP and the fact that it's over $100+ less per month on a lease, it was a no brainer for me. Worse case I'm not happy with it, the lease is only 24 months and I could easily transfer the lease being that the payment is in the mid $700's.

I had a '17 M4 Base with Manual of which I loved. Yet now I'm getting an M4 that has a sticker that's $34K higher than my Base M4, yet comes with the same monthly payment as well as 1 year shorter lease. No brainer for me!

How are you in the mid 700's with a 24 month lease? Unless you put a monster of a down which would be a complete waste.

[Colinv6]

I’ve said this before but I’ve owned a 2015 M3, a 2017 M3 comp and a 2018 M4CS, and there’s a magic about the CS that wasn’t there on the other 2.

Infact, I’d say out of the comp and non comp, I preferred the non comp. I was never really happy with how my comp drove, it had wierd understeer issues and felt quite disconnected. Maybe I had a bad one.

However, the CS is superb, it’s noticably faster, way more agile and direct and inspires real confidence. I have CCB and cup2 tyres which undoubtedly contribute a lot to this but it really is a more than the sum of its parts car.

As for comfort access, never spec it on any car, it’s a big security issue in the UK these days and I’ve never found an issue with pressing one button to unlock my car, I don’t even take the fob out of my pocket just reach in and push the button.

Electric seats, I love them, but why didn’t we get to choose manual seats? Surely the memory items weigh a tonne? Were manual seats an option elsewhere CanAutM3

For me, a more raw, basic car is more dramatic to drive and a rare thing these days so I’m all for it. Can’t see me ever selling this one tbh.

[M3GymNut]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I use my comfort access at least twice per day. At least once per week, I also have my hands full and I kick open my trunk with my foot. I have not had to fish a key out of my pocket since ... wow, maybe 2005? Or was it 2000?

and my heated steering wheel, well, I might die without that

The CS goodies are designed for the track and I get the value in those features for those who it matters to (CanAutM3 )

But for me, going to the track might be a once a year thing so I would be trading daily comfort features that mean a lot more to me than track focused features. In short, I would not take the CS, because it is not right for me - even if it was the same price.

At the end of the day, the real argument is, what exactly did BMW gain by removing those features and would their time have been better spent on something else to make the car faster/better handling rather than de-contenting and while adding significant price.

I understand completely what you are saying. But to not get the CS for the ZCP if what you are saying for the same amount is still a tough swallow, even if the CS may not have some of the features you want. The CS is just on another level even if the differences may seem minor but they're definitely not.

[trendy26]

Originally Posted by M3GymNut

How are you in the mid 700's with a 24 month lease? Unless you put a monster of a down which would be a complete waste.

$30K discount bud. Deals are to be had on the CS's. Only $1K did at signing - First payment and tag