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06-19-2013, 07:48 AM | #45 |
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i'm ok with the new force induced engine. it will have more low end torque than the e9x m3, but definitely won't sound as nice as a naturally aspirated engine s65 v8.
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06-19-2013, 08:52 AM | #46 |
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I have owned all M3 but an E30M and have an e92 now. I love the motor but I am looking forward to the new turboI6. Unlike most here I am not too concerned with it not being a completely new motor. I have no complaints with the 1M or 335i motor though I have never owned a car with either the N54 or N55. The mpg will be a small bonus but with the way I drive the car I doubt I will average much more than the low 17 I do now. Power delivery will be great and the torque will be a new experience for me. And if they break 7500rpm I have no complaints. Overall I am sure the motor will be fine and I will like it.
What is drawing me towards the new M4 is the technology. I have always driven manual so it will likely be my first DCT too. I look forward to the weight loss the most. I am hopeful for a full 150-100lbs though I doubt we will get that. Also I suppose that new trick M differential from the f10/12M will get carried over into this and it seems like a pretty cool thing to have. Also finally having proper brakes is a nice touch. I want the new M4 because of the sum of it's parts and what it is. I could just buy a 997 GT3 if I wanted to go fast with a manual and high revving motor. And admittingly I will miss this. But I would like to try something new. Besides I will still have my E92M anyawy lol (unless R8 V10 depreciate enough in the next 3 years lol) |
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06-19-2013, 11:22 PM | #47 |
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there are always people whining about new engine. when bmw ditched straight six for v8 for e9x i remember people whining. boost is good.. boost makes happiness.. fat mid range torque is what makes things easy anywhere..
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06-21-2013, 12:45 AM | #48 |
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^ instant throttle response, high revving is what does it for me. Torque? Pfftt as if I care.
I'd might as well get this over with. The I6 engines and now the S65 have been treats. With the advent of the turdbros, it is going to be a long time before BMW has anything that interests me. And for those that are hoping for zero turbo lag...take a spin in an M5. It's still there. |
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06-21-2013, 03:05 AM | #50 | |
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The only thing i can see someone like you complaining is when daily driving, where you are keeping revs low. not in the power zone, where the next M3 will shine. With that said. I love the sound of a V8, and the high revs. I could carless about MPG also. i am a rare breed, or maybe just have a lot of cash... either way. I think this is something you might not understand. honestly i do see where people like you are coming from. a engine thats makes more power, better on gas, more torque. i get it. but to me. i have never really liked practical cars. but this new one is better for BMW, and for many people |
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06-21-2013, 03:45 AM | #51 | |
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06-21-2013, 06:05 AM | #52 | |
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06-21-2013, 06:11 AM | #53 | |
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Ferrari 458 has a pretty damn close hp to tq ratio as the e9x m3. No one is complaining there. But yes you obviously need instant torque to make lane changes in a 35mph zone. |
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06-21-2013, 07:34 AM | #54 |
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06-21-2013, 11:39 AM | #55 | |
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06-21-2013, 02:21 PM | #56 | |
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With any common understanding of what turbo lag is, this is incorrect. I know what you are trying to say, take a turbo engine and basically disable or remove the turbo and you have an engine with less performance. That's not the point at all, lag is not about the peak or even overall power it is about the dynamics of the power increasing and decreasing. And yes me too, like many M enthusiasts prefer NA power.
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06-21-2013, 04:02 PM | #57 | |
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06-21-2013, 07:02 PM | #58 |
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No, absolutely wrong again. You can choose to have you own special little definition of a term but when that is at odds with everyone else (everyone in a very real and practical sense) then you end up living in your own isolated world where no one can communicate intelligently with you. Don't let your personal preferences and biases turn you into an isolationist. It's really quite a silly little game and definition you have here and I think you actually know that.
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06-21-2013, 07:23 PM | #59 | |
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You need to put down the crack pipe... Everything you said is utter hog wash. Also, when you take into account the E9Xs torque multiplication due to its gearing it is inline with its torque output with a lot of its lower revving brethren. There isn't one lazy gear in a E9X M3...I have driven plenty of 335s and yes the low end torque is nice but not near in terms of visceral feel, sound and performance. As far as Porsche, I owned a 997S and it sounded like ass until I added AWE 200 cpi cats and Borla cans along with the X51 exhaust manifolds. A E9X M3 sounds light years ahead better than the H6 in the base and S anyday of the week, now a GT3 is a different story...love the GT3, a $130K car. I for one realize the direction of the new S55 powerplant but I have to say I am dismayed quite a bit. The S65 is the last real BMW M powerplant, end of story. The engine blocks were one offs for the M division while the new S55 powerplant is derived from the N55, basically its a souped up 335i motor. I really hope I am wrong, I want the new powerplant to wow me... Dave |
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06-21-2013, 08:06 PM | #60 | |
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So, before buying a 335i: turbos are the devil, its e92 m3 w/ s65 or nothing! After buying a 335i: turbos are sweet, i could live with a turbo m3, the s65 is still awesome but I may not swing it due to mpg and age by the time I buy. I do not think the s55 will be dull by any stretch. It will be a monster that will spank an e92. However, the s65 will always be special and have that uniqueness to it, being a high revving v8 and probably the only v8 to ever grace an m3. |
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06-22-2013, 01:34 AM | #61 |
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Absolutely. The S65 V8 in the M3 is the closest thing you can get to the Ferrari F430 engine (outside of Maranello) but for probably 1/3rd of the price. No it's not a cross plane V8 and no it doesn't quite rev to 8500 rpm, yes, its specific torque and hp are a tad bit less but in most of those respects and others it is damn close. And if the F430 engine is not special to you then we can't even really continue any rational discussion.
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06-22-2013, 04:41 AM | #62 | |
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Maybe you don't take automotive engineering as any kind of science, but I certainly do, so will not rename something that is known in engineering circles because the masses know it as something else. Next we will be making up words like Nukular or engine dampener Afterall it was you who previously stated - The language describing science must be very precise to be correct! And as for biases turning one into an isolationist, your overwhelming bias of the s65 and NA comes across very clear. If you were a neutral engineer, you would have shot down the 'instant throttle response' description of an NA. As we engineers all know ALL engines suffer from 'Lag' whether they have a turbo or not. You need to be precise describing science. |
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06-22-2013, 02:50 PM | #63 | |
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06-22-2013, 11:50 PM | #64 | ||||
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Really, get with the program here. This is not even much of a debate or even discussion with you.
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06-22-2013, 11:51 PM | #65 |
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Sorry not me.
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06-23-2013, 09:47 AM | #66 | |||||
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At least you agree that, say, the S63Tu at 4.4 litres even when in 'lag' state will be at least if not better than an s65. Kind of poo poo's the people who believe the F10 M5 F12/13 M6 suffers from lag. I'm pretty sure I feel strong acceleration when driving the M6 Quote:
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Obviously current M3 owners would like the engine they know and love to move into the next car in some form or another.....but simple facts are, to extract the increase of power required, BMW would have to go against the global trends for economy and emissions, on an already thirsty engine. On the plus side, there was equally as much debate about the F10 M5 / M6 dropping the s85 engine. Seems like s63tu has gone down well with new owners, with only 'the sound' being a negative. As for turbo lag, check out race two in this e60 M5 vs. F10 M5 (race two singled out as it was closest start point for the both in terms of reaction time). Not bad for a over 100kg heavier car with 12% less displacement. |
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