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      05-14-2014, 12:21 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by dondula View Post
So when I watch this review above even though it was a 507 package c63 which only unlocks the engine, different shifter fabric, steering wheel fabric and a vented hood that is just for looks, this guy must be smoking crack to think it's better. with all the toys the M4 has... The c63 is only good for it's engine, has nothing else to offer. Any BMW M is such a well balanced car and not only drives around a track faster, but is quick in a straight line and performs everything very well, The M is the complete package. Who cares about straight line performance?

I would rather have a car that does everything really well, instead of one thing just great.

Really sorry to offend any benz fans out there. I truly think benz pays off many reviewers to bolster the review of their cars.. They are powerful enough to do so and wouldn't be surprised if they did.

Call me crazy, but I feel the M3 I had was the most well rounded car I have ever had.
Why did you pass on the Perf package on your C63? My buddies tracks his C63 with P31 package. LSD is a must. He also fitted some wider tires, the stock tire widths are a joke. Interior is outdated, but the seats are to die for. Flat bottom steering wheel is a nice touch.

I thoroughly enjoy driving the C63 on track/road. It is a completely different experience to my M3. Just a brutal machine and sounds fantastic. Only thing I don't like very much as you stated is the transmission. The MCT can not keep up with the DCT.
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      05-14-2014, 12:44 PM   #24
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      05-14-2014, 12:55 PM   #25
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First comparo and beaten by a 440 lbs heavier Benz in driver excitement and steering feel. WTF BMW why do you keep doing this!
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      05-14-2014, 01:39 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
Why did you pass on the Perf package on your C63? My buddies tracks his C63 with P31 package. LSD is a must. He also fitted some wider tires, the stock tire widths are a joke. Interior is outdated, but the seats are to die for. Flat bottom steering wheel is a nice touch.

I thoroughly enjoy driving the C63 on track/road. It is a completely different experience to my M3. Just a brutal machine and sounds fantastic. Only thing I don't like very much as you stated is the transmission. The MCT can not keep up with the DCT.
I needed a car ASAP since I crashed my M and that is what was available that my dealer could trade for. The car came equipped how it came. Flat top and bottom wheel is ok.. A little thin for my taste. Prefer something more chunky that you can actually grab.

If you compare base c63 specs VS base M3 specs right off the web, BMW give you a lot more than Mercedes does.

A stock M3 runs faster lap times than a c63 fully loaded even a 507 pack which is over 100k price tag.

The Mercedes nav system is terrible and even with the 1.5 inch larger screen it is still small... The benz I drive is absolutely the worst. after having the car 10 months I still didn't catch on how to quickly navigate.. How about the air conditioner or heat, from 70 jumps to 72 when you set it.. there is no 71. It jumps two degrees with every single turn of the knob, so getting the cabin to the exact temp you want it is impossible.

I look at the entire picture and IMO M3 is more well rounded.

Not to mention, I think BMW doesn't have as big of a head as Mercedes does. You can tell just by dealing with these two companies, That BMW goes further to satisfy their customers and earn your business than Mercedes does.

Last edited by dondula; 05-14-2014 at 01:55 PM..
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      05-14-2014, 01:44 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by chiplee View Post
I agree that it's questionable whether driving experience/excitement is a primary factor for you. I'm probably BMW's target audience for this new M3/4. I think much of the BMW line up is now targeted at average consumers vice purists, and that's me, an average consumer. I've always lusted after an M3 but never owned one; never even driven one. I'm buying mine without a test drive. I've been a turbo enthusiast my whole driving life and I don't mind muted exhaust notes. In fact I love them. What matters to me when I spend money is to get the most bang for the buck; the best of all possible worlds. That is torque on tap from an engine that won't penalize me with 15mpg every time I move the car. I want comfort, versatility, dare I say "practicality" if such a thing exists in the $60k+ realm. I just don't know who is doing that better this year than BMW. Those are all my important factors though and yes, "different strokes", "to each his/her own", etc.
Well said. I can tell you that I have owned the E46 m3 and the E92 M3, but I don't think the F8x is going to disappoint. I think most people don't consider the fact that the car is going to pull hard for so long that they are "numb" to the acceleration so it doesn't feel as exciting up top. The promise of torque response and better handling excite me. Not to mention getting back into the turbo world.
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      05-14-2014, 01:48 PM   #28
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I haven't had a turbo since my '01 S4. Really looking forward to having another boosted car.
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      05-14-2014, 01:54 PM   #29
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Wow, just wow. Never have owned a Mercedes and never will. This really puts things in perspective. I think you said it best that BMW gives you the most bang for your buck. I really enjoy the Free 50,000 mile maintenance you get with BMW's and factor that into the price of the car for me. I can't wait for you to get your new M4, sounds like it's been a long time coming. Almost there dude!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dondula View Post
I think I am a pretty good person to comment on this being I have owned both a 2013 M3 and a 2013 C63..


Call me crazy, but I feel the M3 I had was the most well rounded car I have ever had.
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      05-14-2014, 02:03 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Wow, just wow. Never have owned a Mercedes and never will. This really puts things in perspective. I think you said it best that BMW gives you the most bang for your buck. I really enjoy the Free 50,000 mile maintenance you get with BMW's and factor that into the price of the car for me. I can't wait for you to get your new M4, sounds like it's been a long time coming. Almost there dude!
Thank you for the kind words!

BMW charges us for these "free services" but in the end they off set the price of the car to accommodate these charges. who wants to pay a few grand for performance pads every 7k mi? then you end up granny breaking to stretch a couple more months out of the pads.. with BMW you don't have to worry about that and can really break..

Mercedes has been around too long for their own good and they are very tricky company. IMO they false advertise a lot and bolster a lot that is all black and white. "multi clutch" "6.3L" when there is no "Multi Clutch and you get a 6.2L etc..

3k for a slip diff with benz when BMW gives it away standard.

Mercedes defiantly knows how to make the maximum profit they can from their customers. Benz used to give included services similar to BMW but stopped that a few years ago.

I really think some people just like the name "Benz" and how it makes them feel more over the actual performance when it comes to AMG VS M...

AMG has a long way to go IMO. AMG standard option even upgraded options have wood trim.. 2,800 for CF trim.. I am shocked that benz would even make wood an option in a AMG "Sport car" nothing makes you feel more like an old man or feeling like you're driving a luxury car then wood trim. Nothing race inspired by it at all. They should offer black trim, silver trim, or CF trim and that's it.

New re-designed C Class is due out this summer, AMG version a year to follow. Rumor has it that it will have a V-6 turbo, dual clutch etc.. But even then after they update all their out of date crap, I still wouldn't want to pay more for something I can get for less and IMO done better by M

Last edited by dondula; 05-14-2014 at 02:13 PM..
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      05-14-2014, 02:07 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Buddy Revell View Post
Thanks for that. He didn't seem to be a huge fan of the previous M3 when it came out either:
Sounds so good!
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      05-14-2014, 02:22 PM   #32
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Mercs are ugly compared to BMWs IMHO, also no manual gearbox for the c63 so yeaa BMW > MB lol
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      05-14-2014, 02:24 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dondula View Post
I needed a car ASAP since I crashed my M and that is what was available that my dealer could trade for. The car came equipped how it came. Flat top and bottom wheel is ok.. A little thin for my taste. Prefer something more chunky that you can actually grab.

If you compare base c63 specs VS base M3 specs right off the web, BMW give you a lot more than Mercedes does.

A stock M3 runs faster lap times than a c63 fully loaded even a 507 pack which is over 100k price tag.

The Mercedes nav system is terrible and even with the 1.5 inch larger screen it is still small... The benz I drive is absolutely the worst. after having the car 10 months I still didn't catch on how to quickly navigate.. How about the air conditioner or heat, from 70 jumps to 72 when you set it.. there is no 71. It jumps two degrees with every single turn of the knob, so getting the cabin to the exact temp you want it is impossible.

I look at the entire picture and IMO M3 is more well rounded.

Not to mention, I think BMW doesn't have as big of a head as Mercedes does. You can tell just by dealing with these two companies, That BMW goes further to satisfy their customers and earn your business than Mercedes does.
My customer service experience with Mercedes has been absolutely fantastic.

Also, the stock C63 runs a faster lap time around the 'ring than the E92 M3 (by 4 seconds).

My experiences with the car have been vastly different as well.

After 6 BMWs in the past 6 years, I was comparing an E92 M3 against a '13 C63 sedan.

I thought the M3 had the better transmission (particularly in M mode), but I preferred the C63's power delivery, steering feel (better weight, sharper turn-in), and suspension (which was firmer and had better damping).

I could tell that the M3 was the lighter car as it was substantially less frightening to bring in the rear of that car after stepping it out. However, once I had some practice with the C63, I thought the power oversteer situations were quite fun.

Sounds like your problems with Mercedes helped to sour your impressions of the car. And I don't blame you. I've been there as well.
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      05-14-2014, 02:27 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dondula View Post
New re-designed C Class is due out this summer, AMG version a year to follow. Rumor has it that it will have a V-6 turbo, dual clutch etc.. But even then after they update all their out of date crap, I still wouldn't want to pay more for something I can get for less and IMO done better by M
The W205 C63 will have a 4.0L biturbo V8 with between 480-510 horsepower.
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      05-14-2014, 02:37 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
The W205 C63 will have a 4.0L biturbo V8 with between 480-510 horsepower.
thanks for clearing that up about the engine

One thing, where did you read that the c63 had a faster lap time because every single review I have ever watched e92 M3 vs c63 coupe, the M3 "spanked" the c63 on the track.

Do you agree with me about the dated interior and the AC control jumping two degrees with every turn and the I drive system in the merc not nearly as user friendly as BMW?

Keep in mind I am mostly proving my points stock vs stock.

But you are the first person that told me a C is faster around a track.

here is one of many video's for M3 vs C63 track times.
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      05-14-2014, 02:44 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by dondula View Post
thanks for clearing that up about the engine

One thing, where did you read that the c63 had a faster lap time because every single review I have ever watched e92 M3 vs c63 coupe, the M3 "spanked" the c63 on the track.

Do you agree with me about the dated interior and the AC control jumping two degrees with every turn and the I drive system in the merc not nearly as user friendly as BMW?

Keep in mind I am mostly proving my points stock vs stock.

But you are the first person that told me a C is faster around a track.

here is one of many video's for M3 vs C63 track times.
The video you posted featured the pre-LCI W204 C63. In 2012, the C63 received major updates from Mercedes AMG, including a new suspension and new transmission, among other things.

I don't have any problems with my climate control. And I found the COMAND system pretty intuitive to use. Is iDrive better? Yes, it's more comprehensive, but COMAND is by no means intolerable. I don't mess around much with the infotainment system in any car so both systems suit my needs.

Regarding the interior, the C63's seats blew away the M3's. So I thought the M3 was outdated in that respect. I also thought the C63's flat-top, flat-bottom steering wheel was perfect with respect to thickness. I have an all-alcantara version of the wheel on the way so I'm ensure I'll enjoy that version even more.

And here are the lap times around the 'ring (http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html):

C63 - 8:01

M3 - 8:05

As far as lap times are concerned, neither car is "universally" faster than the other around a road course. On tighter, more technical tracks, the M3's lesser weight will be an advantage. On faster tracks filled with high-speed sweepers, the C63's additional power is going to provide a major advantage.

And here are a few reviews in which the C63 was not spanked at all:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

The C63 lost out by a single point against the M3.

Here's another review against an RS5:

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      05-14-2014, 03:00 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Wow, just wow. Never have owned a Mercedes and never will. This really puts things in perspective. I think you said it best that BMW gives you the most bang for your buck. I really enjoy the Free 50,000 mile maintenance you get with BMW's and factor that into the price of the car for me. I can't wait for you to get your new M4, sounds like it's been a long time coming. Almost there dude!
The BMW is the less expensive car and has very friendly leases. That makes them more affordable to a larger audience.

Don't be fooled by the maintenance. That is built into the price.
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      05-14-2014, 03:08 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
The BMW is the less expensive car and has very friendly leases. That makes them more affordable to a larger audience.

Don't be fooled by the maintenance. That is built into the price.
Correct.

I have also found that it is much harder to schedule service with BMW. I have to do it like 2-3 weeks in advance in order to guarantee a BMW loaner.

With MB, I can call a day in advance and have a MB loaner every time.

Overall, my experience with both brands has been absolutely stellar.

On a side note, I loved the E9X M3. If I could've justified two, gas-guzzling cars of the same "niche," I would've got them both. I'm very eager to drive the F80 M3. It has some things now that the previous M3 lacked: gobs of torque, world-class front bucket seats, and fixed front and rear calipers as standard (for the first time, surprisingly).
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      05-14-2014, 03:39 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
Correct.

I have also found that it is much harder to schedule service with BMW. I have to do it like 2-3 weeks in advance in order to guarantee a BMW loaner.

With MB, I can call a day in advance and have a MB loaner every time.

Overall, my experience with both brands has been absolutely stellar.

On a side note, I loved the E9X M3. If I could've justified two, gas-guzzling cars of the same "niche," I would've got them both. I'm very eager to drive the F80 M3. It has some things now that the previous M3 lacked: gobs of torque, world-class front bucket seats, and fixed front and rear calipers as standard (for the first time, surprisingly).
Decided on the color yet?

I don't like looking at the merc. It just makes me think, that I may have rushed with my decision to avoid them.
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      05-14-2014, 03:56 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Lups View Post
I don't like looking at the merc. It just makes me think, that I may have rushed with my decision to avoid them.
Big no no here!
You can still go for a Merc when the kids are out of the house... a nice little 2-seater then
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      05-14-2014, 04:00 PM   #41
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Big no no here!
You can still go for a Merc when the kids are out of the house... a nice little 2-seater then
Haha. Not going to wait that long, and then it will be boats. I'll move to Lapland and be a fisher. That would suit my antisocial tendencies.
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      05-14-2014, 04:11 PM   #42
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steve is just a C63 fanboy.. he hated the v8 M3 too... M4 destorys the c63 in everyway. most people agree in the youtube comments too.
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      05-14-2014, 04:16 PM   #43
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Decided on the color yet?

I don't like looking at the merc. It just makes me think, that I may have rushed with my decision to avoid them.
Don't worry, you can't go wrong with either choice.

Color is the only thing I can't decide. I've done Estoril and Le Mans blue in the past. Yas Marina is too Papa Smurf for me. Silverstone w/ Sakhir is the safe bet. Although I really like the cloth/leather combination as well.
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      05-14-2014, 04:17 PM   #44
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steve is just a C63 fanboy.. he hated the v8 M3 too... M4 destorys the c63 in everyway. most people agree in the youtube comments too.
I thought you were more even-keeled than that my friend. "Destroys" is a strong word.
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