BM3 CS map

[gemini.m3]

Thinking about getting the tune and using the CS map for a conservative bump while I prep for VTT crank hub solution. This topic has been beaten to death I'm sure, but I imagine that my chances of SCH are slightly less if I'm using a tune that is putting down OEMish power.

Of course, I realize that if it spins, I'm still out of luck as I'm sure BMW isn't interested in discussing the logic behind CS vs stage 1/2. DME tampering is DME tampering.

I was so happy the day I finally brought my M car home. I didn't realize you could barely tune it and the M tax is freaking insane. 5k for an exhaust? coming from 1k 335i MPE territory, that is quite the shock lol.

[TrueNorthM5]

Truthfully...nobody really knows for sure. There's some data that shows a correlation between power level and spunk crank hubs, but it's not scientific. As you've probably read...it has happened on stock cars, too. Some people have been lucky and BMW has still honored warranty.

Personally, if I had an 18' ZCP with a warranty...I'd enjoy the shit out of that car for the time being without doing a tune. Get some sticky tires, take it to the track, learn the car's limits. Once your bored, then consider your options

[Karmic Man]

All this worrying for +10 horsepower?

[chewbakam4]

If there’s anything ever to worry about then people will Sky is falling omg omg omg LOL Probability of you getting into a car accident is most likely far higher than the hub spinning given how low the numbers are but as soon as one of these threads shows up its like panic mode for newcomers especially. I’ve run my M4 countless hours of tracking, WOT I don’t even know how many runs over the 3 years. Solid car. In fact its been one of if not the most reliable ones I’ve owned. Can the hub spin? Sure it can and does happen but people should probably worry more about what and how much they eat daily than spinning their crank hub. Just my 2c not open for argument. Stock cars can have it happen too so +5hp or +200hp it really doesn’t matter when it happens at +0hp. If you’ll constantly worry about it then don’t tune cause worrying is way shittier than just enjoying a really really great car.

[Bluesummer]

I'm just sitting here waiting for someone to spin their "reinforced" hub with my popcorn...

[Mnoob2]

Have had my car for about 2 months now and running the CS map for 1 of those months. My biggest concern at the moment is traction. It has been super wet due to the weather but otherwise the car has been holding up, even when I lose traction.

[BIGW0RM]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

All this worrying for +10 horsepower?

That's not accurate at all.

The first CS map was WELL WELL over BMW CS power. Hence why they changed it to CS+. Id say there was well more than 10whp.

They detuned the CS+ and called it the new CS map. Which I feel is WELL more than 10WHP as well.

The data shows the spun hub is happening to all cars, stock and or tuned. So the question should be...

Do you want to risk losing your warranty or not? If you can't afford to drop 25K at a moment to fix it, then no you should not.

To base that decision on what additional HP you get doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter if you add 10 or 100whp. The second you change that ECU, you are done for unless VERY lucky and you sneak it by for warranty. Which is fraud.

I'm all for tuning. But the choice needs to be made based on can you cover it. Not how much HP is it giving me.

At least that's how I see it.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

That's not accurate at all.

The first CS map was WELL WELL over BMW CS power. Hence why they changed it to CS+. Id say there was well more than 10whp.

They detuned the CS+ and called it the new CS map. Which I feel is WELL more than 10WHP as well.

The data shows the spun hub is happening to all cars, stock and or tuned. So the question should be...

Do you want to risk losing your warranty or not? If you can't afford to drop 25K at a moment to fix it, then no you should not.

To base that decision on what additional HP you get doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter if you add 10 or 100whp. The second you change that ECU, you are done for unless VERY lucky and you sneak it by for warranty. Which is fraud.

I'm all for tuning. But the choice needs to be made based on can you cover it. Not how much HP is it giving me.

At least that's how I see it.

As far as I know, they didn't detune anything. Current CS map (not CS+) is an oem CS map based on the tables exported from an M3/M4 CS. In other words, it's not an approximation like CS+ was. I double checked this with couple people from BM3 team and hopefully they will correct me if I'm wrong. Btw, Halim made a thread comparing stock, ZCP, CS, and CS+ maps on the same dyno.

[chewbakam4]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

That's not accurate at all.

The first CS map was WELL WELL over BMW CS power. Hence why they changed it to CS+. Id say there was well more than 10whp.

They detuned the CS+ and called it the new CS map. Which I feel is WELL more than 10WHP as well.

The data shows the spun hub is happening to all cars, stock and or tuned. So the question should be...

Do you want to risk losing your warranty or not? If you can't afford to drop 25K at a moment to fix it, then no you should not.

To base that decision on what additional HP you get doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter if you add 10 or 100whp. The second you change that ECU, you are done for unless VERY lucky and you sneak it by for warranty. Which is fraud.

I'm all for tuning. But the choice needs to be made based on can you cover it. Not how much HP is it giving me.

At least that's how I see it.

You’re right but 25k? No one I know paid 25k and also no one I know had a catastrophic failure even though I’m sure some may have. In like 95% of cases this happens its like at idle or slow cruise and all you need is retime the motor and that’s nowhere near 25k.

[BIGW0RM]

Originally Posted by cntzl

As far as I know, they didn't detune anything. Current CS map (not CS+) is an oem CS map based on the tables exported from an M3/M4 CS. In other words, it's not an approximation like CS+ was. I double checked this with couple people from BM3 team and hopefully they will correct me if I'm wrong. Btw, Halim made a thread comparing stock, ZCP, CS, and CS+ maps on the same dyno.

I dont know what the current one came from. I was on the OG CS which became CS+. I was told THAT CS map at the time (again its now CS+) was exactly the same as the BMW CS map. That was NOT the case.

And the current CS map, I have no clue if its REAL oem like or not. Im not here to argue that.

My point was you cant base a tune decision off HP ratings and hope your safe.

And I explained my experience with the CS map based on the comment about 10 hp.

I like the CS map. And I think it drives the best. But I would not tune my car based on running a CS map and think Im safe. That was my whole point.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

I dont know what the current one came from. I was on the OG CS which became CS+. I was told THAT CS map at the time (again its now CS+) was exactly the same as the BMW CS map. That was NOT the case.

And the current CS map, I have no clue if its REAL oem like or not. Im not here to argue that.

My point was you cant base a tune decision off HP ratings and hope your safe.

And I explained my experience with the CS map based on the comment about 10 hp.

I like the CS map. And I think it drives the best. But I would not tune my car based on running a CS map and think Im safe. That was my whole point.

No, agree with you on everything you said. I was just pointing out where the current CS map came from. As you mentioned, no such thing as being safe after you unlock the DME.

[BIGW0RM]

Originally Posted by chewbakam4

You’re right but 25k? No one I know paid 25k and also no one I know had a catastrophic failure even though I’m sure some may have. In like 95% of cases this happens its like at idle or slow cruise and all you need is retime the motor and that’s nowhere near 25k.

Thank you. To be honest, I have no experience with a spun hub. I assumed the dealers would simply replace the whole motor before trying to work on it (at least it seems that way these days).

And I thought a new motor was 25K give or take. So while one might be able to get a fix for cheaper. Id rather know the worst odds. If Im totally off, my apologies.

[chmura]

IMO I would not do the upgrade crank hub. I would be more worried about the mechanics not doing something right and than your warranty will be voided anyway due to the fact it has been taken apart. I do not trust mechanics one bit unfortunately. There is no one out there that will take care of your car better than YOU.

Last year I went to M Thermal M Track days. All the people there were beating the living crap out of the M3's and M4. Bouncing off rev limiters all day long, super hard kick downs all day long, nothing happened to these cars after all this abuse.

I say do not worry about the crank hub and tune as you please. I do not think the crank hub is related to power output. Like mentioned above it happened by just cruising. I would say this happened to less than 1 percent of s55 motors out there.

[chewbakam4]

Originally Posted by chmura

IMO I would not do the upgrade crank hub. I would be more worried about the mechanics not doing something right and than your warranty will be voided anyway due to the fact it has been taken apart. I do not trust mechanics one bit unfortunately. There is no one out there that will take care of your car better than YOU.

Last year I went to M Thermal M Track days. All the people there were beating the living crap out of the M3's and M4. Bouncing off rev limiters all day long, super hard kick downs all day long, nothing happened to these cars after all this abuse.

I say do not worry about the crank hub and tune as you please. I do not think the crank hub is related to power output. Like mentioned above it happened by just cruising. I would say this happened to less than 1 percent of s55 motors out there.

+1000

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

That's not accurate at all.

The first CS map was WELL WELL over BMW CS power. Hence why they changed it to CS+. Id say there was well more than 10whp.

They detuned the CS+ and called it the new CS map. Which I feel is WELL more than 10WHP as well.

The data shows the spun hub is happening to all cars, stock and or tuned. So the question should be...

Do you want to risk losing your warranty or not? If you can't afford to drop 25K at a moment to fix it, then no you should not.

To base that decision on what additional HP you get doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter if you add 10 or 100whp. The second you change that ECU, you are done for unless VERY lucky and you sneak it by for warranty. Which is fraud.

I'm all for tuning. But the choice needs to be made based on can you cover it. Not how much HP is it giving me.

At least that's how I see it.

Guess my context was misunderstood. The whole point of my reply is to ask the OP if 10 extra horses justify all the worrying that he is giving to himself after the tune.

Only he can answer that for himself

Obviously if a SCH happens, it doesn't matter if its +10hp or -10hp. Once the DME has been modified, most likely you are on your own.

[melvyn]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

That's not accurate at all.

The first CS map was WELL WELL over BMW CS power. Hence why they changed it to CS+. Id say there was well more than 10whp.

They detuned the CS+ and called it the new CS map. Which I feel is WELL more than 10WHP as well.

The data shows the spun hub is happening to all cars, stock and or tuned. So the question should be...

Do you want to risk losing your warranty or not? If you can't afford to drop 25K at a moment to fix it, then no you should not.

To base that decision on what additional HP you get doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter if you add 10 or 100whp. The second you change that ECU, you are done for unless VERY lucky and you sneak it by for warranty. Which is fraud.

I'm all for tuning. But the choice needs to be made based on can you cover it. Not how much HP is it giving me.

At least that's how I see it.

Just picking up on your point of the BM3 CS map being more powerfull than the BMW CS map.In a nutshell, it is not.It is a lot more linea ,and you have to redline it to get the best power out of it.
On the other hand, the BMW CS map is all about a lump of midrange torque which falls off abrubtly at around 6.5k revs,keep short shifting makes it the more powerfull and faster map.

[M3GymNut]

I have a question. I have a 2015 M3 and was wondering if tuning it to the stock CS map would it be an issue if I have 6MT since the CS tuned vehicles only come with DCT?

[Zero_Cool]

Originally Posted by M3GymNut

I have a question. I have a 2015 M3 and was wondering if tuning it to the stock CS map would it be an issue if I have 6MT since the CS tuned vehicles only come with DCT?

I flashed my 18 ZCP M3 6spd to the CS map and I think it’s a great map. The throttle isn’t as jerky as some have mentioned. I have experienced a couple occasions where I’ve slowed down and down shifted at an awkward moment approaching traffic circles (EU) and it was jerky (like DCT in sport+). But overall the CS+ map makes my M feel alive. I also enjoy the rev match in sport+ too. I’m returning from a vacay to downpipes, chargepipes, and BM3 stage 2. So I can’t wait to experience that. I did opt to have the CBC installed too. I have personally seen an M2C with a SCH running bolt ons, CBC, BM3, and JB4 money shifting.. I think it can happen to anyone, but maybe less likely to those who have the spline lock system? But if you plan on modding you have to be aware of any issues it may cause and know Bmw may not warranty whatever was modded. “You gotta pay to play” Rod Blagojevich

[drgmt]

Only tune if

1. You have plenty of spare cash to fix issues that
may arise

2. Don't care about loosing your drivetrain warranty

If you have many concerns going in - then remain stock and enjoy the car that way.

[Ex_Stig]

All this talk about SCH and the auto kick down makes me wonder, why bother driving the car in auto mode???

I'm over 4K miles in my CS (with the BM3 Stage 1 for the last 1k miles) and I don't think the car has ever been I auto mode at all.

[SE7EN335]

Just to clarify for all the misinformation on this website, the current CS map is NOT the oem CS map. It is a slightly overpowered version map of the OEM CS map. I have Confirmed with Dzenan on BM3 Support and Facebook.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by SE7EN335

Just to clarify for all the misinformation on this website, the current CS map is NOT the oem CS map. It is a slightly overpowered version map of the OEM CS map. I have Confirmed with Dzenan on BM3 Support and Facebook.

No, it used to be what you are describing. Right now BM3 is offering two maps called CS and CS+. CS is the OEM CS map and CS+ is what used to be called the CS and it's BM3's approximation of CS with a little more top end. You can even fin dyno comparisons of these maps here:

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1542700