Official F8X Track Alignment Specifications

[VeloF1]

2015 M4. Weekend car w/ track focus. Just added GC Camber plates. MP HAS set to BMW recommend height. Been on car for years. My prior alignment had -1.5 camber front (and, about the same in rear).

So, after install of Camber plates and new alignment -2.5 camber front, I noticed the front end is about 1/2” lower. No changes rear height on MP HAS.

So, does the increase in front negative camber result in the front end being lower? Regardless, I’d like the MP HAS to maintain BMW recommendations. Or, if anything, maybe lower front and rear together w/ rear slightly more. Now, the front is higher than rear which I want to avoid. I understand corner balancing may help, yet, I’m in Sacramento and haven’t found a highly recommended shop. Obviously, I can change height myself.

Did the new alignment (-2.5 front camber) cause the front height to drop .5 inches? If I increase front height, does that effect the -2.5 front camber? What do you think? I read on a Miata forum that adding 1 degree negative camber results in 1” drop for what it’s worth.

[Driver407]

Originally Posted by VeloF1

2015 M4. Weekend car w/ track focus. Just added GC Camber plates. MP HAS set to BMW recommend height. Been on car for years. My prior alignment had -1.5 camber front (and, about the same in rear).

So, after install of Camber plates and new alignment -2.5 camber front, I noticed the front end is about 1/2” lower. No changes rear height on MP HAS.

So, does the increase in front negative camber result in the front end being lower? Regardless, I’d like the MP HAS to maintain BMW recommendations. Or, if anything, maybe lower front and rear together w/ rear slightly more. Now, the front is higher than rear which I want to avoid. I understand corner balancing may help, yet, I’m in Sacramento and haven’t found a highly recommended shop. Obviously, I can change height myself.

Did the new alignment (-2.5 front camber) cause the front height to drop .5 inches? If I increase front height, does that effect the -2.5 front camber? What do you think? I read on a Miata forum that adding 1 degree negative camber results in 1” drop for what it’s worth.

Hi Eric, I shoulda mentioned when we chatted at the track. You seem to be aiming for what I also run. 2.5f T:1/16in and 1.6r T:3/16in. Ive been happy with the wear so far. I did 6 track days on my first set of NT01 and 2 days on my new set. Street setup also going strong. Is a nice balance for track and daily imo.

I had Valley Motorworks in sac do my track alignment and corner balance. They did a good job and the price wasnt too bad. I sat in the car. If you want installs and other labor id look elsewhere they are kinda overpriced for most things ive quoted. But alignment and all was decent.

You shouldnt be dropping just from the camber angle adjustments alone. (Im not an expert, so take that as you will, someone else can chime in) It will angle the top of the wheel inward toward the hood slightly which can look funny if you dont have spacers or proper offset aftermarket wheels.

Not sure if the GC plates are differently sized from the oem hats. Maybe there are a few mm there? Either way I dont think it should be a 1/2 inch.

[VeloF1]

Originally Posted by irokdayellup

Hi Eric, I shoulda mentioned when we chatted at the track. You seem to be aiming for what I also run. 2.5f T:1/16in and 1.6r T:3/16in. Ive been happy with the wear so far. I did 6 track days on my first set of NT01 and 2 days on my new set. Street setup also going strong. Is a nice balance for track and daily imo.

I had Valley Motorworks in sac do my track alignment and corner balance. They did a good job and the price wasnt too bad. I sat in the car. If you want installs and other labor id look elsewhere they are kinda overpriced for most things ive quoted. But alignment and all was decent.

You shouldnt be dropping just from the camber angle adjustments alone. (Im not an expert, so take that as you will, someone else can chime in) It will angle the top of the wheel inward toward the hood slightly which can look funny if you dont have spacers or proper offset aftermarket wheels.

Not sure if the GC plates are differently sized from the oem hats. Maybe there are a few mm there? Either way I dont think it should be a 1/2 inch.

I just added pix of Alignment to my post. Any further thoughts? Thanks for the recommendation of Valley Motorwerks!

[F80Speed77]

Originally Posted by VeloF1

2015 M4. Weekend car w/ track focus. Just added GC Camber plates. MP HAS set to BMW recommend height. Been on car for years. My prior alignment had -1.5 camber front (and, about the same in rear).

So, after install of Camber plates and new alignment -2.5 camber front, I noticed the front end is about 1/2” lower. No changes rear height on MP HAS.

So, does the increase in front negative camber result in the front end being lower? Regardless, I’d like the MP HAS to maintain BMW recommendations. Or, if anything, maybe lower front and rear together w/ rear slightly more. Now, the front is higher than rear which I want to avoid. I understand corner balancing may help, yet, I’m in Sacramento and haven’t found a highly recommended shop. Obviously, I can change height myself.

Did the new alignment (-2.5 front camber) cause the front height to drop .5 inches? If I increase front height, does that effect the -2.5 front camber? What do you think? I read on a Miata forum that adding 1 degree negative camber results in 1” drop for what it’s worth.

-2.5deg is probably the minimum for what you want in street/track compromise you could probably go up to -3deg if you want a little more track focus. Ideal track is -4+deg for the sticky 200TW tires and probably closer to -5 for R compounds.

Camber change does not affect ride height but adding the GC plates may have, most likely they are a little shorter than the stock top hats. Adjusting ride height will mess with your alignment some.

Also never apply anything from a Miata forum to this car haha, completely different suspension design at both the front and rear of the car. We have lots of good helpers in here with a bunch of experience.

[rborane]

MCS 1WNR - 600/900 spring rates

Front:
-2.2 camber
+.03 toe

Rear:
-1.7 camber
+.06 toe

Corner weights:
LF 1011, RF 1003, RR 901, LR 912

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by VeloF1

2015 M4. Weekend car w/ track focus. Just added GC Camber plates. MP HAS set to BMW recommend height. Been on car for years. My prior alignment had -1.5 camber front (and, about the same in rear).

So, after install of Camber plates and new alignment -2.5 camber front, I noticed the front end is about 1/2” lower. No changes rear height on MP HAS.

So, does the increase in front negative camber result in the front end being lower? Regardless, I’d like the MP HAS to maintain BMW recommendations. Or, if anything, maybe lower front and rear together w/ rear slightly more. Now, the front is higher than rear which I want to avoid. I understand corner balancing may help, yet, I’m in Sacramento and haven’t found a highly recommended shop. Obviously, I can change height myself.

Did the new alignment (-2.5 front camber) cause the front height to drop .5 inches? If I increase front height, does that effect the -2.5 front camber? What do you think? I read on a Miata forum that adding 1 degree negative camber results in 1” drop for what it’s worth.

installing GC plates nor changing camber should alter ride height to a meaningful degree.

Did you actually measure the ride height? Or is it only your perception? Because more negative camber will tuck the top of the wheel inside the fender, and will look like it sits lower, but it really does not.

[USSEnterprise]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

installing GC plates nor changing camber should alter ride height to a meaningful degree.

Did you actually measure the ride height? Or is it only your perception? Because more negative camber will tuck the top of the wheel inside the fender, and will look like it sits lower, but it really does not.

I know GC says the stack height of their camber plates is the same as stock, however I too lost front ride height when I installed GC camber plates. Noticeably more rubbing of the front splitter on driveway and roads where there wasn’t rubbing before. Cant explain it.

[VeloF1]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

installing GC plates nor changing camber should alter ride height to a meaningful degree.

Did you actually measure the ride height? Or is it only your perception? Because more negative camber will tuck the top of the wheel inside the fender, and will look like it sits lower, but it really does not.

I did the measurement per the MP HAS manual. And, rechecked after break-in period. However, I didn’t check measurement immediately prior to the install of the plates. So, I’m not 100% confidant.

Ps: I did use your settings w/ slight modification at Sonoma raceway a couple days ago. I like it.

[Reddevils7]

I was having a hard time finding current thread discussions on this but I'm more interested in street specs. could someone review this and give me any input. I'm thinking about raising the rear a little. not sure how dealer measured those but I measured it myself from bottom lip of wheel to fender and it's 24.75 inch front and 24.25 rear. alignment was done on 19" wheels but I'm running oem 666m now and the ride height I checked myself was with those new wheels. running bilstein b16d, otherwise stock with cs edc on a non zcp f82.[IMG]undefined[/IMG]

just realized those pics didn't upload right. on my phone the text looks garbled. will try to reupload.

[Matt Liang]

This is the wheel alignment I’ve done for today on my 2017 f80, ran 41000km
There is obvious differences of the camber and toe angle of the rear wheels.
Can anyone tell this difference is relatively acceptable or need to change any parts in my chassis?
Or any good suggestion/method to correct this alignment?

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by Matt Liang

Attachment 2708313

This is the wheel alignment I’ve done for today on my 2017 f80, ran 41000km
There is obvious differences of the camber and toe angle of the rear wheels.
Can anyone tell this difference is relatively acceptable or need to change any parts in my chassis?
Or any good suggestion/method to correct this alignment?

Rear camber and toe are both adjustable and relatively easily. Would definitely have the rear aligned and while you’re at it, the front toe.

Without aftermarket camber plates, the front camber is not adjustable.

[Monkey Throttle]

Hi,

I need some help. Please understand that I don't have a great vocabulary for mechanicals even though I'm a decently fast driver. I'm like Cole Trickle

I recently received my Vorschlag Camber Plates...
1) Where is a good place in Los Angeles to have these installed? I should do the install at a shop that also does alignment?
2) What setting do I want to instruct the shop to set?
- I use my 2018 M4 Competition Package mostly for track duty. I drive to and from the track and on occasion drive around time but very limited.
- I run Apex 18" wheels with Nitto NT01 275x35x18

What setting do I ask for on the front camber plates? What setting do I ask for on the factory rear?
Is there anything else I need to be aware of or ask for?

Thanks,

I should probably add, the main reason for my camber plates is to prolong tire life for track usage. I'm not as concerned about track time/speed performance.
I do drive to and from the track.

[silverbackf8x]

^ Highly recommend EAS - European Auto Source in Anaheim, CA for all ///M performance related parts and installation. Chewerks in Garden Grove is the Go To for setting up alignments … Both respected, reliable and dependable establishments.

[silverbackf8x]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Hi, .

What suspension setup are you running?
Are you running a square 275 setup?
Do you plan of changing the camber to a more aggressive setting at the track or drive/track as set?

[David0ff]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Hi,

I need some help. Please understand that I don't have a great vocabulary for mechanicals even though I'm a decently fast driver. I'm like Cole Trickle

I recently received my Vorschlag Camber Plates...
1) Where is a good place in Los Angeles to have these installed? I should do the install at a shop that also does alignment?
2) What setting do I want to instruct the shop to set?
- I use my 2018 M4 Competition Package mostly for track duty. I drive to and from the track and on occasion drive around time but very limited.
- I run Apex 18" wheels with Nitto NT01 275x35x18

What setting do I ask for on the front camber plates? What setting do I ask for on the factory rear?
Is there anything else I need to be aware of or ask for?

Thanks,

I should probably add, the main reason for my camber plates is to prolong tire life for track usage. I'm not as concerned about track time/speed performance.
I do drive to and from the track.

I'll give you a starting point for a good alignment. Then you can tweak from there

F
Camber -3.1x (Low 3.1)
Toe In 0.05(+/- 0.01)degrees per side

R
Camber -1.6x (Low 1.6)
Toe In 0.10(+/- 0.01)degrees per side

NT01 hot pressure target start 32psi Hot F&R.
Adjust as necessary to your liking for Under/Over steer balance +\- 1-2 PSi F/R

Have Fun!

[heyyouduh]

Hey guys, I have a F80 that's a daily driver and occasional HPDE. Recently got an alignment to -2.5 / -1.6 camber, 0 toe / slight toe in rear. Pretty happy with those settings on paper, will do a DE and see.

In the process found out front tie rods were seized and had to torch them and luckily didn't need to replace tie rods. Got me started reading suspension arms and alignments and saw a few users here with alignments that drifted with the stock eccentrics after track days.

1. Is this more of an issue with the faster/hardcore guys or is this pretty prevalent even with the dual duty guys on 200tw street tires like me? The OEM arms + camber plates have gotten the alignment I think will work, so I want to do the minimal I need to have fun, but also don't want to be second guessing if my alignment drifted after every track day.

2. I ended up buying OEM front tie rod and will just go ahead and replace them before my next alignment instead of dealing w/ potentially seized tie rods, looks like a nice piece with OEM pinch bolt. Do aftermarket tie rod ends offer significantly better ease of adjustment?

3. Seems like in regards to the rear, if indeed stock eccentrics drifting after track days is an issue the minimum to do would be toe arms + lockout washer and something like the Fall Line camber shims.

I was originally going to do a couple DEs and figure this out next spring, but there's some decent sales going on and wanted to see if anyone went through the same process maybe will just go ahead and take advantage of sales and get things done this winter. TIA.

[bimmerboyE92]

Originally Posted by heyyouduh

Hey guys, I have a F80 that's a daily driver and occasional HPDE. Recently got an alignment to -2.5 / -1.6 camber, 0 toe / slight toe in rear. Pretty happy with those settings on paper, will do a DE and see.

In the process found out front tie rods were seized and had to torch them and luckily didn't need to replace tie rods. Got me started reading suspension arms and alignments and saw a few users here with alignments that drifted with the stock eccentrics after track days.

1. Is this more of an issue with the faster/hardcore guys or is this pretty prevalent even with the dual duty guys on 200tw street tires like me? The OEM arms + camber plates have gotten the alignment I think will work, so I want to do the minimal I need to have fun, but also don't want to be second guessing if my alignment drifted after every track day.

2. I ended up buying OEM front tie rod and will just go ahead and replace them before my next alignment instead of dealing w/ potentially seized tie rods, looks like a nice piece with OEM pinch bolt. Do aftermarket tie rod ends offer significantly better ease of adjustment?

3. Seems like in regards to the rear, if indeed stock eccentrics drifting after track days is an issue the minimum to do would be toe arms + lockout washer and something like the Fall Line camber shims.

I was originally going to do a couple DEs and figure this out next spring, but there's some decent sales going on and wanted to see if anyone went through the same process maybe will just go ahead and take advantage of sales and get things done this winter. TIA.

We've found the rear eccentrics for toe have walked. Both times we suspect from an off track excursion. Have since moved to SPL toe arms with an eccentric delete. Easier to adjust and more robust then an eccentric. Rear toe is now rock solid and have mowed the lawn a few more times. Rear toe arms were relatively inexpensive. Rear camber has never moved for us and we are still using the stock eccentric.

The front toe has never moved. Every car that I've driven on the street will have tie rods siezed. But they don't move once set!!! Front camber moved once on a TC Kline camber plate but I think it's because the the bolts weren't tightened enough.

[heyyouduh]

Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92

We've found the rear eccentrics for toe have walked. Both times we suspect from an off track excursion. Have since moved to SPL toe arms with an eccentric delete. Easier to adjust and more robust then an eccentric. Rear toe is now rock solid and have mowed the lawn a few more times. Rear toe arms were relatively inexpensive. Rear camber has never moved for us and we are still using the stock eccentric.

The front toe has never moved. Every car that I've driven on the street will have tie rods siezed. But they don't move once set!!! Front camber moved once on a TC Kline camber plate but I think it's because the the bolts weren't tightened enough.

Thanks for the feedback, good to know the OEM eccentric for camber stays true although the shim kit is very affordable. I'll look into the toe arms for the rear. SPL has a 20% off sale for Black Friday I believe.

re tie rods, the OEM piece looks nice. I bought Lemforder tie rod assy (inner, outter, the boot that goes over steering rack end lol) from FCP just in case my alignment guy couldn't unseize them, but fortunately he did.

[CeglA]

I dont want to post new topic so I will try to ask here.
I made suspension geometry today. They asked me if I want track of daily settings. I sad daily. I dont track my car.
My current rear settings:
Left chamber -2.00, TOE 0.09
Right chamber -2.00, TOE 0.07
From what I read here this settings are probably too aggressive for daily drive? Could somebody confirm? I drive quite hard but I would like to have good traction on first gears during acceleration.
Is it worth to change rear chamber settings to around 1.4? Will I notice any improvement? Or maybe its worth to stay with 2.0?

Regards,
Chris

[rborane]

Thoughts on alignment sheet below? Daily driver with MCS 1WNR , SPL toe arms & Vorshlag camber plates. The shop calls this their "street sport" spec. I don't want to be going through tires quick…

[silverbackf8x]

Originally Posted by rborane

Thoughts on alignment sheet below? Daily driver with MCS 1WNR , SPL toe arms & Vorshlag camber plates. The shop calls this their "street sport" spec. I don't want to be going through tires quick…

I’d say that’s about right for what they are labeling/setting up as their camber package. Toe will effect the wear of the tire more so than camber. I tried going back and forth from a street setup to full track camber spec but in my opinion it wasn’t worth the time spent to swap things around.

I’m also running MCS Coilovers with Vorshlag Camber Plates and SPL suspension arms. My Track Spec Alignment was set by Rob at Chewerks. I leave it as is, just swap wheels at the track.

[EGbeater]

Originally Posted by CeglA

I dont want to post new topic so I will try to ask here.
I made suspension geometry today. They asked me if I want track of daily settings. I sad daily. I dont track my car.
My current rear settings:
Left chamber -2.00, TOE 0.09
Right chamber -2.00, TOE 0.07
From what I read here this settings are probably too aggressive for daily drive? Could somebody confirm? I drive quite hard but I would like to have good traction on first gears during acceleration.
Is it worth to change rear chamber settings to around 1.4? Will I notice any improvement? Or maybe its worth to stay with 2.0?

Regards,
Chris

IMO changing your rear negative camber from 2 degrees to 1.4 won't make that much difference in your grip in 1st and 2nd gear under hard acceleration. What will make a larger improvement is the rear tires you run (the type/compound more so than the width) and the tire sidewall height... shorter sidewall, lower profile/larger wheeldiameter will substantially reduce how much inherent compliance the tire has under hard acceleration and therefore grip. All else equal, a 35-series tire has substantially more compliance for longitudinal grip than a 30- or 25-series.