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      12-12-2013, 04:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTO24 View Post
Ferrari is moving to turbo too.
ya the direction of cars sucks. although if i had to move into FI. i would go s/C over trubo.
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      12-12-2013, 04:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTO24 View Post
Ferrari is moving to turbo too.
Even F1 is going to turbo's for next year.... SIGH!
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      12-12-2013, 04:45 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogart View Post
a flash tune, like COBB, is not a piggy back. the S55 is completely different than the N54/55. we'll just have to wait and see, but it will be a while. probably at least 6 months.
It took Cobb almost 3 years to develop a tune for n55 engine
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      12-12-2013, 04:54 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundpilot View Post
It took Cobb almost 3 years to develop a tune for n55 engine
I don't think they started working on the N55 until they were finished with the N54. I bet it took less than a year from the time they started to when the flash was ready for the public.
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      12-12-2013, 05:15 PM   #27
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Thread is full of fail. All the best running N54's utilize both piggyback + flash combos.
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      12-12-2013, 05:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JStang View Post
I don't think they started working on the N55 until they were finished with the N54. I bet it took less than a year from the time they started to when the flash was ready for the public.
You may be right. I got my 2011 135i in march of 2010(one of the first ones) and waited untill late 2012 to get my tune.
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      12-12-2013, 05:31 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrder View Post
Thread is full of fail. All the best running N54's utilize both piggyback + flash combos.
Yup...

But seriously, instead of simply just drag racing or doing high way pulls, do you really need more power on most tracks people have access to ( circuits, not strips )

I'm sure there will be plenty of other upgrade opportunities to lower your track times then simple power increase, eg: driver mods, chassis.

The car is not only lighter than the Previous gen, chassis balance will surely be better from the get go.
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      12-12-2013, 06:10 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiesowns View Post
Yup...

But seriously, instead of simply just drag racing or doing high way pulls, do you really need more power on most tracks people have access to ( circuits, not strips )

I'm sure there will be plenty of other upgrade opportunities to lower your track times then simple power increase, eg: driver mods, chassis.

The car is not only lighter than the Previous gen, chassis balance will surely be better from the get go.
There will be enough power for any track, but you will gain an advantage with tune over similarly prepped car with stock power. We are not talking about a SC here that costs a kidney. Good tunes for turbo engines are much cheaper, reliable and are very effective
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      12-12-2013, 07:34 PM   #31
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the upside to piggyback tunes, at least for the n54/55, is they allegedly won't be detected by the dealership, at least according to a few tuners I spoke to. I'm still skeptical about that though.

when i was playing with cheaper turbo cars I always went with custom tunes as the gain + reliability were so much greater, but the S55 probably wouldn't be cheap to replace

gotta pay to play
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      12-12-2013, 08:00 PM   #32
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The N54, N55, and S55 are all 3.0 liter straight six BMW engines that are based on essentially the same design.

The S55 is rated at 120+ hp over the other engines. Displacement remains the same.

Much of the "easy" gains the N54 guys got with their cars is already being accounted for in the S55 as it runs much higher boost straight from the factory.

Anyone who is expecting to "unleash the beast" with a Cobb AP or JB4 like you would on a N54 is in for a rude awakening. The stock turbos are already working their ass off, and if you are in high elevations you are especially ****ed.

That said, I do expect to see a healthy aftermarket for catless midpipes and upgraded turbos for these cars. But I doubt many casual daily drivers are going to want to go that extreme. The good news is the internals are buffed-up so this engine won't suffer the atrocious heat-soak issues the N54/N55 cars do.
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      12-12-2013, 08:03 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 435iaffair View Post
the upside to piggyback tunes, at least for the n54/55, is they allegedly won't be detected by the dealership, at least according to a few tuners I spoke to. I'm still skeptical about that though.

when i was playing with cheaper turbo cars I always went with custom tunes as the gain + reliability were so much greater, but the S55 probably wouldn't be cheap to replace

gotta pay to play
If your dealer wants to find a reason to deny a warranty they will find it. Sometimes they will just look for physical evidence of tampering on the ECU box and that is enough.

Arguments about "undetectable" tunes is complete nonsense in 2013. There are hundreds of ways BMW can tell you to take a walk once you turn up the boost and try to file a warranty claim.
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      12-12-2013, 08:18 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
If your dealer wants to find a reason to deny a warranty they will find it. Sometimes they will just look for physical evidence of tampering on the ECU box and that is enough.

Arguments about "undetectable" tunes is complete nonsense in 2013. There are hundreds of ways BMW can tell you to take a walk once you turn up the boost and try to file a warranty claim.
Completely agreed, which is why I never bought into it...might as well just get a real flash and call it a day
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      12-12-2013, 08:27 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTO24 View Post
Ferrari is moving to turbo too.
But they have publicly stated that their FI engines will exhibit NA level throttle response and lag and will sound wonderful. They incur the extra expense for a couple more years sticking with high revving NA until they feel the technology is a match for their and their clienteles expectations.
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      12-12-2013, 08:28 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
The good news is the internals are buffed-up so this engine won't suffer the atrocious heat-soak issues the N54/N55 cars do.
Good post, however, what the heck do internals have to do with heat soak. Perhaps you mean ancillaries?
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      12-12-2013, 08:51 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Good post, however, what the heck do internals have to do with heat soak. Perhaps you mean ancillaries?
I think he means "the engine" as in the whole drivetrain?
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      12-12-2013, 09:12 PM   #38
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So many people look at tuning as bragging rights. The have X wheel HP or output.

The problem is that this car is a factory RWD 12 second quarter mile car. More power doesn't linearly mean faster anymore. You might increase 30whp and still achieve about the same quarter mile time.

I've driven a 12 second quarter mile car. Frankly, on the street car, it blows my mind. Of course I could enjoy more raw thrust, but at what expense?

This thing is going to be making the rear tires SQUIRM stock with all that torque all over the powerband. The best investment is probably going to be, for raw acceleration, the most aggressive street legal tires available.

But no one wants to go that direction. I'd rather say I'm putting out 500hp.
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      12-12-2013, 09:27 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Good post, however, what the heck do internals have to do with heat soak. Perhaps you mean ancillaries?
I should finish my sentences before I post.

Buffed up internals and closed deck = capable of withstanding more boost

+

improved cooling

I didn't mean to imply forged internals are going to help keep the engine cool.
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      12-12-2013, 09:39 PM   #40
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Good lord there are some uninformed people in this thread!

First of all, a piggyback particularly ones like the JB4 and Procede add a TON of functionality that a flash simply cannot offer. Gauge hijacking is one of them and the feature that I could not live without. I don't want to add a gaudy boost gauge to my car to get an idea of what is going on regarding that. Flashes and piggybacks work best together. Also, piggybacks have NOTHING to do with N54s overheating on the track. BMW simply did not design the N54 cooling system with enough thermal headroom to handle the heat generated by them on the track. This happens whether modded or stock...obviously quicker modded since more power = more heat. The M3 has massive amounts more headroom with this in mind.

Next, the F8X will not run at 18 psi unless temps are very high, or you are at high altitude, or both. The ECU has an internal model and essentially knows how much power the engine is producing at any given time. They give it leeway to raise boost up to a max of 18 psi to maintain the rated power of 430 hp regardless of temps or altitude. I suspect most cars will run somewhere around 1 bar of boost (14-15 psi)...which even on the N54 with smaller turbos is good for M3 power ratings.

Additionally, 430 crank hp is nothing for a modern, direct injection 3L motor. This engine isn't anywhere near tapped out. The compressor wheels on the turbos are good for substantially more flow than the N54's which have no problem producing 450+ hp. I imagine the turbos will again be constrained on the hotsides, but nevertheless should be interesting how much power can be attained...certainly there will be large torque gains to be had.

I'm incredibly excited to pick mine up this summer. The wait makes it all that much more fun!
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      12-13-2013, 06:49 AM   #41
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COBB would be best. Then get PTF to protune it and the car will be a dream.
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      12-13-2013, 07:59 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
The stock turbos are already working their ass off,
Source please.
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      12-13-2013, 09:24 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post
Its called common sense.

We are not talking about a F1 engine here. There is only so much a standard production line 3 series engine from 4 years ago will do. The original engine was already outputting 300 hp using a turbo, we are 40% past that with an even bigger turbo(s). The current car could do 650hp with a supercharger, forget about those numbers with the new one unless you rebuild the entire engine.
Your common sense is wrong. Please refrain from commenting on things you clearly have no clue about.
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      12-13-2013, 09:32 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post
Its called common sense.

We are not talking about a F1 engine here. There is only so much a standard production line 3 series engine from 4 years ago will do. The original engine was already outputting 300 hp using a turbo, we are 40% past that with an even bigger turbo(s). The current car could do 650hp with a supercharger, forget about those numbers with the new one unless you rebuild the entire engine.
The original engine (assuming you mean N55) made 300hp with 0,5bar boost. Hardly any boost at all. Under ideal conditions a boost of 0,5bar increases power by 50%. In the real world a bit less. So the base N55 engine makes somewhere around 220hp unboosted. A VERY mildly tuned 3l engine from BMW the N55.

A Nissan GT-R can be tuned to 650hp on stock turbos:

http://aamcompetition.com/i-11658595...r-package.html

Why is the S55 not capable of at least half of the gain (100hp) the GT-R has on stock turbos?
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