Track forum general chit chat

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Going to the Ridge?

1) I'd probably have someone dismount the tire and double check. I had a screw close to the sidewall before a track day last year that I had plugged with no issues.

2) Yikes - never had that happen with my studs... a little disconcerting. When did you have them installed?

Going to COTA actually. I moved from Seattle to Austin

1) I will see if thats an options at the track but there is no plug because it holds air just fine

2) Installed around 6-7 months ago i wanna say no more than a year ago. I read that blue thread locker is rated to only 160F, maybe track temperatures caused them to become loose?

[jfritz27]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Going to COTA actually. I moved from Seattle to Austin

1) I will see if thats an options at the track but there is no plug because it holds air just fine

2) Installed around 6-7 months ago i wanna say no more than a year ago. I read that blue thread locker is rated to only 160F, maybe track temperatures caused them to become loose?

Given that they were all loose, probably because you used blue thread locker. Definitely should use red. Other things to consider might be improperly prepared/cleaned threads prior to install, but seemingly less likely if every single stud is loose.
Apex's install guide is quite thorough and a good read (in case you haven't seen it: https://www.apexraceparts.com/media/...structions.pdf)

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Hi everyone! Have a track day this weekend and had 2 questions:

1) 4 weeks Had a screw in my rear tire near shoulder that did not go all the way through i guess. I pulled it out and tire holds air no problem 4 weeks later. Is it safe to send it on the track?

2) was changing brake fluid and when taking wheels off one of the studs came out, checked other studs and all were super loose. Wtf? I used 25ft-lbs and blue thread locked. Why did they come loose? I removed all of them, applied blue thread locked again and torqued to like 27ft-lbs is it safe to send at this point?

Thank you

Most stud failures are due to insufficient installation torque

The BimmerWorld ones I've been using since the stone age ask for like 75 ftlb or something, and then they use red loctite. 25ftlb seems like asking for trouble


I keep thinking of posting a mini DIY for proper stud install which is quite simple with a magical tool. I'll get to it soon...

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Most stud failures are due to insufficient installation torque

The BimmerWorld ones I've been using since the stone age ask for like 75 ftlb or something, and then they use red loctite. 25ftlb seems like asking for trouble


I keep thinking of posting a mini DIY for proper stud install which is quite simple with a magical tool. I'll get to it soon...

Well those studs survived like 5 track days until i noticed something is weird.
Here are installation instructions that i followed

https://motorsporthardware.com/faq/

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Most stud failures are due to insufficient installation torque

The BimmerWorld ones I've been using since the stone age ask for like 75 ftlb or something, and then they use red loctite. 25ftlb seems like asking for trouble


I keep thinking of posting a mini DIY for proper stud install which is quite simple with a magical tool. I'll get to it soon...

What kind of tool btw? Also since it was fine for 5 track days and i just re torqued everything. I guess i should be fine right?

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by jfritz27

Given that they were all loose, probably because you used blue thread locker. Definitely should use red. Other things to consider might be improperly prepared/cleaned threads prior to install, but seemingly less likely if every single stud is loose.
Apex's install guide is quite thorough and a good read (in case you haven't seen it: https://www.apexraceparts.com/media/...structions.pdf)

Even they call for between 22 and 25lbs… but i followed motorsport hardware instructions who i bought these from and they call for 25lbs and blue loctite…

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by aswy6

What kind of tool btw? Also since it was fine for 5 track days and i just re torqued everything. I guess i should be fine right?

It's a stud removal tool that can also be used to install studs if you mcgyver it

I don't know if you're ok. 25ftlb sounds so low.

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

It's a stud removal tool that can also be used to install studs if you mcgyver it

I don't know if you're ok. 25ftlb sounds so low.

But why everyone besides bimmerworld pretty much calls for 25lbs then?

[RSXDC5]

I use MSI studs, same used in NASCAR if memory serves…

[aswy6]

Just called Motorsports Hardware and they confirmed that 25lbs should be just fine for torque in addition to blue thread locker. They did recommend to re-torque studs when tracking and using blue thread locker though

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by aswy6

But why everyone besides bimmerworld pretty much calls for 25lbs then?

I have no idea

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Most stud failures are due to insufficient installation torque

The BimmerWorld ones I've been using since the stone age ask for like 75 ftlb or something, and then they use red loctite. 25ftlb seems like asking for trouble


I keep thinking of posting a mini DIY for proper stud install which is quite simple with a magical tool. I'll get to it soon...

Post it! I busted up my knuckles trying the double nut method. No doubt I applied insufficient torque.

OP, great that you even noticed. Disaster avoided. It's good practice to inspect the studs every wheel change.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Just called Motorsports Hardware and they confirmed that 25lbs should be just fine for torque in addition to blue thread locker. They did recommend to re-torque studs when tracking and using blue thread locker though

I'd replace them honestly. If they are loose and you tracked them, with enough load you could have bent them ever so slightly increasing the chance of failure at the worst possible moment.

[drroc]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Most stud failures are due to insufficient installation torque

The BimmerWorld ones I've been using since the stone age ask for like 75 ftlb or something, and then they use red loctite. 25ftlb seems like asking for trouble


I keep thinking of posting a mini DIY for proper stud install which is quite simple with a magical tool. I'll get to it soon...

I've been using 25ft lb on the Motorsports hardware studs w/o issues for three seasons. I do coat them with blue loctite and let them sit for 24 hrs before I install them.

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by adc

Just came back from VIR with PCA, 3 day event and my first of the year. Went there to accomplish three things: shake off the winter rust from the driver, try out my new brakes, and see how I like a square setup.

First item accomplished but it took 3-4 sessions to get back in the same ballpark lap times as last year. These were done on Hoosier R7 275/315, with the rears fading noticeably from session to session.

So on Day 2 I switched to a set of Pirelli DH scrubs, 305/645, on the same Apex staggered wheels. And wow, OMG mind blown and I am now a square setup convert. By having more even traction at the front and at the rear, the car feels more natural. It takes better corner entry, it rotates so much easier and with a progressive feel, and I never felt it lacked any rear traction. In terms of outright grip, I didn’t feel a huge difference from the Hoosiers R7, except the Pirelli lasted the whole friggin session, that was the other thing that impressed me.

Two caveats. You have to judge the start tire pressure very well, in the 24-25 PSI or even lower, to end up at 31-32 hot. Anything higher and you’re just wasting good rubber, as the Pirelli does it’s best work in that range.

Secondly I’m not sure how long they last, we shall find out. But at $600/set, I almost don’t care.


Finally the AP 9660 brakes, running PFC 333 front and 11 rear on OEM caliper. This was the hardest thing to adjust to, the braking capacity and power is simply insane. I have to completely re-learn braking because I’m slowing down way too much right now. I mean really, I’ll need another 2 weekends just to adjust to this I’m sure.

Only caveat, the 333 pad will probably not last another weekend. I’d say it lasts 3 full days of hot lapping, and the 4th is touch and go, based on the current wear rate. I may need to find another compound to try.

I have to give props to SYT_Shadow and his brother for driving advice, tech advice and in-car instruction. As always, it’s all deeply rooted in practicality and experience, and so very effective.

The event was packed in my group, and with my speed increasing from day to day I was practically in a continuous traffic jam. I only had at most 1 clear lap per session so could only do low 2.07’s, but given everything else that changed from last year I think this is a solid time. I am convinced the car has a 2.05 in it without any crazy risks, and maybe a 2.04 with a better driver.

Last note is that on the 4th session on Day 3, I blew something in the engine compartment running super hard on the back straight. I was able to drive home albeit only by not requesting a lot of boost from the engine. 55-60mph all the way home, it was the opposite of glorious. Initially I thought it was the charge pipes but now I think it’s the J pipe. I’ve swapped the charge pipes and will do the J pipe this weekend as well.

What other pads have you ran?

I was just informed by Bimmerworld that PFC won't be making any more PFC11s for stock calipers. They recommend the 333, but they arnt in production yet.

I have ran ds1.11 and they wouldn't slow down the car very quick. So I need something better than those.

I was getting 6-8 days with my brake ducts out of PFC11s and they have good stopping power.

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

It's a stud removal tool that can also be used to install studs if you mcgyver it

I don't know if you're ok. 25ftlb sounds so low.

If you're talking about the stud removal tool I'm thinking of, it's the best thing since sliced bread!!

Looking forward to your install procedure

[RSXDC5]

Originally Posted by sly1types

What other pads have you ran?

I was just informed by Bimmerworld that PFC won't be making any more PFC11s for stock calipers. They recommend the 333, but they arnt in production yet.

I have ran ds1.11 and they wouldn't slow down the car very quick. So I need something better than those.

I was getting 6-8 days with my brake ducts out of PFC11s and they have good stopping power.

EBC RP-X is your pad, trust me

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by sly1types

What other pads have you ran?

I was just informed by Bimmerworld that PFC won't be making any more PFC11s for stock calipers. They recommend the 333, but they arnt in production yet.

I have ran ds1.11 and they wouldn't slow down the car very quick. So I need something better than those.

I was getting 6-8 days with my brake ducts out of PFC11s and they have good stopping power.

I literally just bought PFC11s from Bimmerworld for stock calipers this week - shipped out directly from PFC a few days ago. Maybe it’s the last batch? Not sure, but it’s a data point for you. Hope they can get you sorted!

[swagon]

Sport Plus in a 6-Speed car on track is a lot of fun. Blipping my downshifts under full braking is a good time. Now noticing the understeering tendencies of the stock setup as I'm progressing.

Also, found two broken studs in the paddock!

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

I literally just bought PFC11s from Bimmerworld for stock calipers this week - shipped out directly from PFC a few days ago. Maybe it’s the last batch? Not sure, but it’s a data point for you. Hope they can get you sorted!

You must have got one of the last ones. This was on Friday.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by sly1types

You must have got one of the last ones. This was on Friday.

Oh wow - yeah I ordered them on Monday!

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Oh wow - yeah I ordered them on Monday!

I called PFC and they said they have some in stock and doesn't show they are discontinuing them. So it sounds like I should be able to still get PFC11s 😊