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      01-28-2014, 10:32 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by RealStig View Post
What letter? Where is it?
Roundel, Jan 2014, page 12. Runflats, bad Vibrations.
Dude is 75 yo and well off enought to own an X5 and M5. Sold them both to get AMG's and he's done with BMW.

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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      01-28-2014, 11:10 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw View Post
How does the M5 suck? I would rather have it than anything in its class. Which is pretty much a E63. RS 7 doesn't count being that is more in M6 GC. I don't get it, where people get off saying this stuff ? Go drive these cars you guys are making blind judgments off what some jackass says!
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

"So color us pissed that the M5 suffers shortfalls in three areas where an M usually excels: steering, suspension, and brakes."


http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._panamera_gts/

This line was particularly painful to read, "I really like the new M5. Granted, it's not a very good M vehicle, but it is an outstanding long-haul luxury yacht."

.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ck_comparison/

Painful lines to read: "Apart from everything else, confidence is a key factor, and I was simply more confident behind the wheel of the Mercedes than I was when driving the BMW." and "The adjustable steering's even worse. You get the impression it was decided that the car would have three different steering modes, and then the engineers were given the task of thinking up what exactly those modes should be. Their solutions were heavy, heavier, and sword-in-stone. None is very good."

It doesn't lose all comparo's but the M5 used to win by a large margin.
It's not like I'm a BMW hater. I'm a Lifetime Roundel member and have owned only BMW's for 15+ years except for a couple Odyssey vans.
.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      01-28-2014, 11:47 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phishhead24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Deal View Post
Lol the earlier poster that quoted you, it's all good man.
That would be me. I don't take any offense because I do know what I am talking about. I find out for myself instead of taking anyone's opinion on here. That is including the people I like. I know my preferences and capabilities in a vehicle. That brings up one of my main points. I have seen more idiots rolling around in cars that they can not handle than ever before. MANY of them seem to grace these forums. So, just because you have an ///M that does not afford any of you latitude when it comes to knowledge base. DONE WITH RANT!
Was directed at you, at Aus, you have had nothing but a good attitude in here. It's everyone else from the 3-series community that come in here and talks shit.
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      01-29-2014, 12:11 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

"So color us pissed that the M5 suffers shortfalls in three areas where an M usually excels: steering, suspension, and brakes."


http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._panamera_gts/

This line was particularly painful to read, "I really like the new M5. Granted, it's not a very good M vehicle, but it is an outstanding long-haul luxury yacht."

.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ck_comparison/

Painful lines to read: "Apart from everything else, confidence is a key factor, and I was simply more confident behind the wheel of the Mercedes than I was when driving the BMW." and "The adjustable steering's even worse. You get the impression it was decided that the car would have three different steering modes, and then the engineers were given the task of thinking up what exactly those modes should be. Their solutions were heavy, heavier, and sword-in-stone. None is very good."

It doesn't lose all comparo's but the M5 used to win by a large margin.
It's not like I'm a BMW hater. I'm a Lifetime Roundel member and have owned only BMW's for 15+ years except for a couple Odyssey vans.
.
Big differences between m3 and m5

-m5 gained 500 lbs over prior gen
-m5 is now based on 7 series platform / wheelbase

In contrast, the m3 has lost 200 lbs over the prior gen and has many tech features and stiffer materiels which will vastly improve handling.

The m5 is much larger than the m3 and is ~ 1000+ lbs heavier.

Yes, 1000 lbs.

The m5 and m3 had totally differnt goals and deviate from their predecessors in completely opposite ways. So a comparison between the two on anything but the type of engine is a mistake
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      01-29-2014, 01:05 AM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Big differences between m3 and m5

-m5 gained 500 lbs over prior gen
-m5 is now based on 7 series platform / wheelbase

In contrast, the m3 has lost 200 lbs over the prior gen and has many tech features and stiffer materiels which will vastly improve handling.

The m5 is much larger than the m3 and is ~ 1000+ lbs heavier.

Yes, 1000 lbs.

The m5 and m3 had totally differnt goals and deviate from their predecessors in completely opposite ways. So a comparison between the two on anything but the type of engine is a mistake
But the comparison is not between M3 and M5, but rather between M5 and its peers. And it does not fare well.

And then the fear is that the same team designed the M3...
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      01-29-2014, 01:24 AM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackLight
Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Big differences between m3 and m5

-m5 gained 500 lbs over prior gen
-m5 is now based on 7 series platform / wheelbase

In contrast, the m3 has lost 200 lbs over the prior gen and has many tech features and stiffer materiels which will vastly improve handling.

The m5 is much larger than the m3 and is ~ 1000+ lbs heavier.

Yes, 1000 lbs.

The m5 and m3 had totally differnt goals and deviate from their predecessors in completely opposite ways. So a comparison between the two on anything but the type of engine is a mistake
But the comparison is not between M3 and M5, but rather between M5 and its peers. And it does not fare well.

And then the fear is that the same team designed the M3...
What doesn't it fair well against? Screw E63, auto tranny and AWD.
Plus it's 3 years old now? RS7 is not a Sedan. Panamara not in the same class either and way more expensive.
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      01-29-2014, 02:23 AM   #205
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Who gives a shit what anyone inside BMW says about their own cars, lets wait for the outside reviews.
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      01-29-2014, 02:25 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
In contrast, the m3 has lost 200 lbs over the prior gen and has many tech features and stiffer materiels which will vastly improve handling.
You're certainly on the right track here but technically this is incorrect.

The car is 80 kg lighter than a similarly equipped E92 M3, that is about 175 lb and straight from the horses mouth. Also, stiffer materials are not the essence of making a stiffer chassis, it is much more about where you use the materials and how much in what place. This is how a predominantly steel chassis has continued to get stiffer across generation of the M3. An exception to this will be the case of the full CFRP monocoque type of chassis. In this case the stiffness of the material itself will significantly contribute to the stiffness of the chassis. So although it is almost for certain that the new chassis is stiffer than the outgoing one both in bending and in torsion, we don't know that for sure yet.
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      01-29-2014, 03:09 AM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

"So color us pissed that the M5 suffers shortfalls in three areas where an M usually excels: steering, suspension, and brakes."


http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._panamera_gts/

This line was particularly painful to read, "I really like the new M5. Granted, it's not a very good M vehicle, but it is an outstanding long-haul luxury yacht."

.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ck_comparison/

Painful lines to read: "Apart from everything else, confidence is a key factor, and I was simply more confident behind the wheel of the Mercedes than I was when driving the BMW." and "The adjustable steering's even worse. You get the impression it was decided that the car would have three different steering modes, and then the engineers were given the task of thinking up what exactly those modes should be. Their solutions were heavy, heavier, and sword-in-stone. None is very good."

It doesn't lose all comparo's but the M5 used to win by a large margin.
It's not like I'm a BMW hater. I'm a Lifetime Roundel member and have owned only BMW's for 15+ years except for a couple Odyssey vans.
.
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      01-29-2014, 04:20 AM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw View Post
Was directed at you, at Aus, you have had nothing but a good attitude in here. It's everyone else from the 3-series community that come in here and talks shit.
Imagine that, a guy who's owned three generations of 3 series BMW's looking into the next 3/4 series. Epic observation.


BOSS, it still doesn't make the M5 go away. No doubt the GC has done much better, but they still released the M5 with the vibrating steering wheel.
The M5 is generally considered the top //M, and they released it with crapppy steering. You can even get discounts on them in the US now because they're just not selling. That higher end buyer reads all the mags and want's the one that wins all the comparos.
.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      01-29-2014, 04:49 AM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by phishhead24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Deal View Post
Lol the earlier poster that quoted you, it's all good man.
That would be me. I don't take any offense because I do know what I am talking about. I find out for myself instead of taking anyone's opinion on here. That is including the people I like. I know my preferences and capabilities in a vehicle. That brings up one of my main points. I have seen more idiots rolling around in cars that they can not handle than ever before. MANY of them seem to grace these forums. So, just because you have an ///M that does not afford any of you latitude when it comes to knowledge base. DONE WITH RANT!
Was directed at you, at Aus, you have had nothing but a good attitude in here. It's everyone else from the 3-series community that come in here and talks shit.
I'm confused. Did I say something to piss you off?
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      01-29-2014, 05:43 AM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Big differences between m3 and m5

-m5 gained 500 lbs over prior gen
-m5 is now based on 7 series platform / wheelbase

In contrast, the m3 has lost 200 lbs over the prior gen and has many tech features and stiffer materiels which will vastly improve handling.

The m5 is much larger than the m3 and is ~ 1000+ lbs heavier.

Yes, 1000 lbs.

The m5 and m3 had totally differnt goals and deviate from their predecessors in completely opposite ways. So a comparison between the two on anything but the type of engine is a mistake
More like 176lb for a 6MT and 131lb for a DCT.

But I get your point, weight lossed is WAY better than weight gained
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      01-29-2014, 05:48 AM   #211
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Another example of internet forums bringing out the worst (and most dumb) form of our own selves. Carry on, ...
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      01-29-2014, 05:53 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Imagine that, a guy who's owned three generations of 3 series BMW's looking into the next 3/4 series. Epic observation.


BOSS, it still doesn't make the M5 go away. No doubt the GC has done much better, but they still released the M5 with the vibrating steering wheel.
The M5 is generally considered the top //M, and they released it with crapppy steering. You can even get discounts on them in the US now because they're just not selling. That higher end buyer reads all the mags and want's the one that wins all the comparos.
.
Funny, I have always seen the M3 as the "top" ///M model. Not from a price perspective but from a "motorsprt" perspective. With the M5 being a luxo bahn stormer and the M3 being a multi purpose car with very good track abilities. I guess it is a question of perspective; since I prefer the M3 niche, I might be biased . Anyway, to me, they are different cars that fill different needs.
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      01-29-2014, 07:00 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Funny, I have always seen the M3 as the "top" ///M model. Not from a price perspective but from a "motorsprt" perspective. With the M5 being a luxo bahn stormer and the M3 being a multi purpose car with very good track abilities. I guess it is a question of perspective; since I prefer the M3 niche, I might be biased . Anyway, to me, they are different cars that fill different needs.
Even BMW M GMBH considers the M3 (and now M4) to be their most important car.
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      01-29-2014, 08:59 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackLight View Post
But the comparison is not between M3 and M5, but rather between M5 and its peers. And it does not fare well.

And then the fear is that the same team designed the M3...
I understand that. But the complaints on the m5 are all based on its size and weight.

The m3, in contrast is even lighter than the outgoing model and was focused on weight loss.

So they will perform differently than their predecessors
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      01-29-2014, 09:10 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Imagine that, a guy who's owned three generations of 3 series BMW's looking into the next 3/4 series. Epic observation.


BOSS, it still doesn't make the M5 go away. No doubt the GC has done much better, but they still released the M5 with the vibrating steering wheel.
The M5 is generally considered the top //M, and they released it with crapppy steering. You can even get discounts on them in the US now because they're just not selling. That higher end buyer reads all the mags and want's the one that wins all the compares.
.
I don't know anything about the steering and this and that about the M5, but what he said there is actually true. I have had 3 new jersey dealerships trying to sell me M5s every time I queried about ordering the new M3, one was as much as $18,000 off MSRP, simply because the cars have been sitting their lots for a very long time. These guys were bending over backwards, calling me several times over the course of many weeks and I could tell from their persistence they were having a hard time selling the cars. At the time my current lease was 5 months or so close to ending and one guy offered me buying out my car and taking care of those 5 lease payments. I obviously didn't go for it because it's not my type of car, but I believe prices speak for themselves. M5s don't sell too well these days and I hardly see one on the road.
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      01-29-2014, 09:13 AM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
I understand that. But the complaints on the m5 are all based on its size and weight.

The m3, in contrast is even lighter than the outgoing model and was focused on weight loss.

So they will perform differently than their predecessors
Kenny,

That's actually not entirely true. I think M5 is lighter than all of its competitors.

That being said, there is no way the new M3 is going to get the type of bad reviews M5 did, absolutely no way. Not unless ///M screwed something up bad big time.
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      01-29-2014, 09:21 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post

BOSS, it still doesn't make the M5 go away. No doubt the GC has done much better, but they still released the M5 with the vibrating steering wheel.
The M5 is generally considered the top //M, and they released it with crapppy steering. You can even get discounts on them in the US now because they're just not selling. That higher end buyer reads all the mags and want's the one that wins all the comparos.
.
It's no coinsidence that ZCP came out less than a year after it's release and is the most comprehensive package ever offered. Someone was trying to save face if you ask me. I'm sure the early adopters were pissed.
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      01-29-2014, 10:54 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing View Post
I won't be eating any words, because there are plenty of fast sedans out there. Lets not forget a panamera turbo a schools everything bmw on the track being 4600 lbs and it's also faster than a dedicated track car in the m3 gts in a straight by a lot.
Are you sure the Panamera Turbo "schools everything BMW" on a track???





As far as I can tell, the M6 GC beats the Panamera Turbo by over 1,5s around this track...
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      01-29-2014, 10:58 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phishhead24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by phishhead24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Deal View Post
Lol the earlier poster that quoted you, it's all good man.
That would be me. I don't take any offense because I do know what I am talking about. I find out for myself instead of taking anyone's opinion on here. That is including the people I like. I know my preferences and capabilities in a vehicle. That brings up one of my main points. I have seen more idiots rolling around in cars that they can not handle than ever before. MANY of them seem to grace these forums. So, just because you have an ///M that does not afford any of you latitude when it comes to knowledge base. DONE WITH RANT!
Was directed at you, at Aus, you have had nothing but a good attitude in here. It's everyone else from the 3-series community that come in here and talks shit.
I'm confused. Did I say something to piss you off?
Wasn't directed at you.
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      01-29-2014, 11:11 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Are you sure the Panamera Turbo "schools everything BMW" on a track???

As far as I can tell, the M6 GC beats the Panamera Turbo by over 1,5s around this track...
Exactly, M5 is more of a drivers car than M6GC. Screw MT, that guy loved M6GC but hated M5????

M5 is awesome. You have to own it to realize it.

As far as the discounts go, I received similar % off of my M3. Don't see M5's on the road? I don't see many new E63 amg's, RS7, or Panamera turbo either.

As far as that old guy converting to AMG's. Good for him. I had to lemon my 2012 550I for vibration issues, BMW stepped up and took care of me. Guess what? I bought 2 more BMW's that same year. No issues what so ever.
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