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      01-27-2014, 10:28 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Deal View Post
So cars sold on their own to a few enthusiast... BMW now wants to capitalize on the market and triple their revenue... Wow what a concept, making money :-)
Not denying any of that man. But as you yourself said, by capitalizing and selling the car to masses, they are losing those a "few" enthusiasts that you mention (which are the hardcore M3 guys on this forum). Not that you, BMW, me, or anyone cares.
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      01-27-2014, 10:29 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by clar View Post
Just wondering what animal it would be. A wartog is an animal too u know...
How about a sloth?
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      01-27-2014, 10:31 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealStig View Post
Not denying any of that man. But as you yourself said, by capitalizing and selling the car to masses, they are losing those a "few" enthusiasts that you mention (which are the hardcore M3 guys on this forum). Not that you, BMW, me, or anyone cares.
Well I do care to an extent, that means every other average joe will be driving one too so the exclusivity goes out the window. Look at GTR, I may only see two a week. I see m3s, c63amgs all over all the sudden (cheaper now).
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      01-27-2014, 11:11 PM   #114
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We will see. Is it as much of an animal as engine in P1 or 918 or even the new engine in C class AMG
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      01-27-2014, 11:21 PM   #115
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Actually, I think I'd prefer the charity car...means I got more value than the company did!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Deal View Post
7 years ago vs now, Geezus why is it so hard for people to move along when there is change? It's 2014, technology will only advance faster and become better so will advertising techniques. Everyone talks about BMW as if they are a charity, they are a business and just like any business they are here to make $$. Looks at all the brands that are successful, they advertise you to death until it's imbedded in our brain.
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      01-27-2014, 11:26 PM   #116
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Agree - amazing how a company like Porsche can deliver more of what enthusiasts want but still make SUVs and Sedans for the 'non enthusiast' consumers. And by the way, those 'non enthusiast vehicles' actually are the best handling/driving vehicles in their categories. All the while, Porsche has been able to have the highest profit margins of any automobile company (yes, even before they were bought out by VW). Bigger is not necessarily better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealStig View Post
Not denying any of that man. But as you yourself said, by capitalizing and selling the car to masses, they are losing those a "few" enthusiasts that you mention (which are the hardcore M3 guys on this forum). Not that you, BMW, me, or anyone cares.
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      01-27-2014, 11:56 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FogCityM3 View Post
Agree - amazing how a company like Porsche can deliver more of what enthusiasts want but still make SUVs and Sedans for the 'non enthusiast' consumers. And by the way, those 'non enthusiast vehicles' actually are the best handling/driving vehicles in their categories. All the while, Porsche has been able to have the highest profit margins of any automobile company (yes, even before they were bought out by VW). Bigger is not necessarily better.
That's what I'm talking about. Why is it so hard for people to see this??
BMW could make the best handling sedans and SAV and keep it's core enthusiast happy it it wanted to, but they'd rather just sell to the masses.

.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      01-28-2014, 12:07 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Deal
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealStig View Post
Not denying any of that man. But as you yourself said, by capitalizing and selling the car to masses, they are losing those a "few" enthusiasts that you mention (which are the hardcore M3 guys on this forum). Not that you, BMW, me, or anyone cares.
Well I do care to an extent, that means every other average joe will be driving one too so the exclusivity goes out the window. Look at GTR, I may only see two a week. I see m3s, c63amgs all over all the sudden (cheaper now).
Pfft! BMW's, ///M or not, have been California's German Civic FOREVER.
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      01-28-2014, 12:49 AM   #119
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So far ppl on this thread have compared the upcoming M4 to a Ferrari and now a corvette performance wise.....

Interesting.
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      01-28-2014, 01:29 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Deal View Post
Well I do care to an extent, that means every other average joe will be driving one too so the exclusivity goes out the window. Look at GTR, I may only see two a week. I see m3s, c63amgs all over all the sudden (cheaper now).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Pfft! BMW's, ///M or not, have been California's German Civic FOREVER.
It doesn't matter where I'm living or how many other M3's are on the road but I'm still not going to drive a GTR or Civic
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      01-28-2014, 01:37 AM   #121
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      01-28-2014, 01:40 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
Having seen swamp2's contributions in other threads, I'm nearly positive that was just a transpositional error. He meant 60-rear, 40-front distribution.
Yes, thanks, I could have and should have been more clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
While 60/40 might be significantly better, do we have some independent confirmation of that?
40F:60R, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End View Post
This creates a lighter nose with sharper turn-in, aids rear wheel traction during acceleration, and creates a more even load distribution under braking.
Bingo all three are important factors. This is why generally speaking the higher performance and more track oriented a car is, the more rear weight bias it will have compared to 50-50. F1 is not the best example since they develop absurd aero downforce, but they too must handle at low speed without crazy downforce. They too have a significant rear weight bias. Sure, you can always find cars that handle well with 50-50 or even a slight front bias but they are fighting the physics...
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Last edited by swamp2; 01-28-2014 at 01:48 AM..
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      01-28-2014, 02:09 AM   #123
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There will be independent reviews (not by BMW DTM drivers who are paid by BMW), tests, comparos with the competition and let's see the results, the car is not even out for sale yet and we are already making it a winner, I think it is too early, lets wait.
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      01-28-2014, 02:30 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2

40F:60R, yes.
As soon as I saw your original "60:40" post I knew people were gonna be confused, I knew you meant 60% of the weight in the rear is closer to ideal than 50:50 and you're absolutely right.

Based on my experience and what I've read on vehicle design, chassis setup, etc. it seems to me that 50:50 is a good target for a car that is fairly neutral; fun but also safe and easy to control. 40:60 is closer to what you want for the fastest lap times.
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      01-28-2014, 05:24 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
I am afraid of the amount of hype M3/M4 is getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlp View Post
I've owed every M3 since the e36 and based on history it is probable that I could own a F8X M3 as well but at this stage of the game this is starting to sound like contrived propaganda and unfortunately any anticipation is now starting wane. Amazed how many folks are already emotionally attached to this car based solely on pictures and some numbers. The endless and often baseless pontification is becoming nauseating. Looking forward to real world data and getting passed this window of speculation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlp View Post
It's simple. Marketing is just marketing. I don't need someone to tell me what they "think" they want me to hear to buy their product. I will decide on my own terms with real world data. No need to romanticize today based on what I think it will be. I will make a decision based on what it actually does. Not hating...just saying .

I saw the M4 concept in person back in August @ Laguna Seca so I have had a lot of time to take in the car and data. Cautiously optimistic


Great points. I won't lie, the anticipation and marketing hype in the air is beginning to feel similar to the excitement leading up to the release of the f30 cars. We all know how that went. And to me, the f80 will be such a radically different car than the e90/92 that it's impossible (statistically) that all these people will be pleased. Artificial sound, I-6 / V-8, EPS, forced induction, larger dimensions, ...
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      01-28-2014, 06:43 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Deal View Post
Look at GTR, I may only see two a week. I see m3s, c63amgs all over all the sudden (cheaper now).
That's mainly because with a M3 or AMG, you still can pick up some friends or kids, go to the grocery store, or go on holiday with that car.

Different audience.
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      01-28-2014, 06:53 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezmaass View Post
No one is ready for this engine? Come now... too much marketing speak. I believe it'll be remarkable like past M tunes, bit to say nobody will be ready for it?
Are we again comparing tuned vs stock ?

Edit: Oops, you meant tunes as in "original-BMW-tuned-by-M-division."
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      01-28-2014, 06:55 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
As far as I know, two things:

1. Variable turbine geometry turbos are a PITA in many ways.
Care to enlighten us ? Tnx.
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      01-28-2014, 08:55 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FogCityM3 View Post
Agree - amazing how a company like Porsche can deliver more of what enthusiasts want but still make SUVs and Sedans for the 'non enthusiast' consumers. And by the way, those 'non enthusiast vehicles' actually are the best handling/driving vehicles in their categories. All the while, Porsche has been able to have the highest profit margins of any automobile company (yes, even before they were bought out by VW). Bigger is not necessarily better.
Yes it is Amazing...but ultimately Porsche belongs to VW now. Its also amazing how a comparable Porsche costs A LOT more than a comparable performing BMW, and Porsche will nickle and dime you for options like no other. M4 Starts around 65K, a 911 S starts a 98K, X5M $90K, Cayenne turbo S $148K. M5/M6 GC $90/115K, Panamara Turbo/S $140/180K. I'm sure if BMW tacked on an additional $40 to $50K onto its M cars they would be pretty awesome too...but so much less obtainable.. Also the "non enthusiast" porches are still more stiffly sprung than anything else in their classes, giving the sporty feel, but im sure the "non enthusiasts" put up with it for the badge.

Last edited by cs4444; 01-28-2014 at 09:10 AM..
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      01-28-2014, 08:57 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
As soon as I saw your original "60:40" post I knew people were gonna be confused, I knew you meant 60% of the weight in the rear is closer to ideal than 50:50 and you're absolutely right.

Based on my experience and what I've read on vehicle design, chassis setup, etc. it seems to me that 50:50 is a good target for a car that is fairly neutral; fun but also safe and easy to control. 40:60 is closer to what you want for the fastest lap times.
And possibly the optimum that can be achieved on a car that is based on a family saloon...

So credit to BMW for at least trying to get as close to 50/50 as possible, instead of just doing an Audi and creating nose heavy cars. Without adding ballast, it's probably not realistic to expect a 40/60 weight distribution on a M car.
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      01-28-2014, 09:15 AM   #131
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Bmw Employee Speaks Of Impressive Bmw Engine!

Stop The Presses!
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      01-28-2014, 09:16 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadmax View Post
There will be independent reviews (not by BMW DTM drivers who are paid by BMW), tests, comparos with the competition and let's see the results, the car is not even out for sale yet and we are already making it a winner, I think it is too early, lets wait.
Hear hear. Seriously, this absurd quote results in a 6 page thread? Come on guys, I expect more.
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