M3/M4 to Get Steel Driveshafts Beginning Nov. 2017. Sales top 68,000 to date.

[MRV99]

Who cares. If it does not effect performance then make it out of what ever they want. The only time I ever saw my drive shaft was when I had a BMW courtesy "inspection" and the car was on a lift.

Some say the I6 turbo from NA v8 was a step back but every f80 beat my E90 on the track. Especially one that had a straight

[jim996]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

And free poor reliability!

But can we not have this 27-times-before argument a 28th time here in this thread too? Please?

And free added depreciation

[JunkStory]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Either that or it's BS and they just want to cut costs, or perhaps even that they want to give the CS one more distinguishing characteristic to try to better justify its massive jump in MSRP from the base model M4.

This. I always imagined the production cost of the CFRP shaft to be very high. They are cost cutting no matter how you slice it. What sort of emission equipment can you possibly fit in that additional fraction of an inch of space?

[Kevinl]

Originally Posted by deadlyrhythm

This is lunacy.

This will cost you mileage (more mass on the drivetrain is a negative), they won't deduct the CF vs steel differential but you'll be pay for that wonderful petrol filter now (regular maintenance). Which by the way is useless in 99% of conditions.

Disgusted.

I get that you need to install the filter
But rather re-routing the gas line and moving the filter to a location which was perhaps more difficult, they chopped a pricey component which you valued for the sake of their simplicity and new bottom line.

Engineering isn't simple, it always takes dollars into account. When it came to this, they took the easy way out which was money. It's as simple as that. Honestly.

It's just apparent they will charge you the same amount of the CF DS but keep it for themselves knowing that few will notice, fewer will complain, but everybody will love how it still looks.

The filter is in the exhaust not the fuel line its a exhaust filter to remove particulates like for diesels now its coming to gasoline engines

[jim996]

Originally Posted by F83

Back in 2015 there was a thread that asked; "Will this car be a classic"?

Overwhelmingly most said no. Perhaps most still would. I said I believed it would be.

I feel that way because I will still keep my gasoline powered rear wheel drive, 6MT, carbon fiber drive shaft, possible to turn traction control entirely off, tuned without trouble because I don't have yet another emissions filter - car for the long haul.

Because soon you won't be able to buy that.

-----------

My thoughts exactly.....I'm keeping my 16 low mileage and In The garage. In 20 years I will be able to sell it to some wide eyed kid for 100 grand. It will be like the scene in the original Max Max where he says "it's the last of the V-8s"

[jim996]

[someMoreMplease]

Anybody who falls for this " M specific high-performance driveshaft made of steel ", is getting shafted by BMW.

[py0413]

Don't be surprised that the next generation M3/4 comes with M-performance automatic transmission, oh wait, isn't that already coming to the new M5 ?

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by JunkStory

This. I always imagined the production cost of the CFRP shaft to be very high. They are cost cutting no matter how you slice it. What sort of emission equipment can you possibly fit in that additional fraction of an inch of space?

Erm, something that gives off a hell of a lot of heat......maybe like a particulate filter that needs high heat regeneration cycles?

Seriously people, CFRP cannot stand high heat, so you cannot put something very hot near it. It sounds to me like there isn't the space to fit this new emissions filter without it being almost wrapped around the driveshaft. But it gets hot, so a steel shaft used instead.

[jackaleyess]

These European are such a hypocrite. There were the one that created big cap engine with melody and now because of the so-called carbon emission, there are never ending of downsizing and meaningless updates just to curb CO2 emission.

C'mon man. Stop worried too much about he fucking environment and make lovely engine with great exhaust notes.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Being a two piece typically, a steel one might have a little slack in the centre u joint. A little clunk as you go from power on to power off. But as it isn't complained about in the rest of the range, no real issue.

That's because they are too busy dealing with the over servoed brakes/wallowy suspension and diesel clatter to care what the drive shaft is doing.

[dsocold]

you cant give something and then take it back thats BS bmw shoulda found another way to integrate theyre excuse of removing a major feature...

[Golfster]

Maybe they are seeing issues with the CF shafts after extended mileage beyond what HALT/HASS tests predicted at time of design.

[Die ///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80

That sucks, nice downgrade of a great car. Did an american company acquire BMW? WTF.

No, but maybe a British company did

[georgere]

Originally Posted by BoxKing

Who da FK cares really?! Non of this will stop any of us future M car owners from buying(well maybe). If you planned to go elsewhere then do so and tell your story, but please stop your damn bitching about every god-damn-thing you don't like about the current changes.

Would you wear a ring out of aluminum and not gold but it would still cost and weight as a gold ring?

[m34m]

The car that keeps on disappointing. Probably one of the most anticipated models in automobiles history and the most monumental let down to match. I can't wait until this generation is put out to pasture where it belongs. Of course then the next iteration of stupidity will rear its head. Only the M2 gives me hope that they have a clue over there.

[Doctor///M]

Originally Posted by jim996

My thoughts exactly.....I'm keeping my 16 low mileage and In The garage. In 20 years I will be able to sell it to some wide eyed kid for 100 grand. It will be like the scene in the original Max Max where he says "it's the last of the V-8s"

...for a drive shaft? Wishful thinking.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by daffyduck

I have a few specific questions to those who obviously have more insights (haven't read anything from them on this thread so far):

1. When is the exact point of time where F80 are going to be product with the steel driveshaft? (the words "November" and "gradually" are not really precise, here)
2. When is the exact point of time where this emissions addon is going to be built in? ("a later point in time" is even worse!!)
3. Does the driveshaft affect performance or responsivness of the engine?
4. Does the emmissions addon affect sound?
5. Last but not least (less important, since it's just out of curiosity): What's the real reason BMW is doing this to a car that's half a year from EOP? Or does "gradually" mean that the F80 is secretly gonna be left out of all this?

Please PLEASE give us some hints on these questions!!

Hopefully some others can assist amid all the hand wringing and tears and wailing going on.

With respect to the " November and gradually "

These terms are being used specifically in order to be vague. There have been 68,000 vehicles made.. I would assume that BMW either has a production limitation... perhaps say they only contracted for 75,000 of these parts or perhaps their vendor has declined to produce more for them. This isn't any different than switching brand of tie rod during production. Running changes are made all the time.

They know that the end of the stock is coming and will end approximately in November. There aren't going to spec a particular date or week as fanatics will already be getting dodgy about what production month their vehicle is made.

Some will want to get a pre 11/17 car and others may actually prefer to get a car with the new driveshaft.. etc.

Originally Posted by TRZ06

I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet, but...

Maybe it's because the CFDS was so light and rigid , thats what was causing the jerky throttle starts.

I know in mine, it happens very easily, and once it starts , you have to completely back off the throttle until it stops. Mine is a DCT BTW, and happens in all throttle mappings under the right conditions.

I very much agree that a natural harmonic like this may be EXACTLY the issue that BMW is concerned about.

Another person indicated EXTREME heat. It's very possible that they have determined that the environment under a vehicle is such that it DEGRADES the CFDS over time, causing issues with longevity.

Indeed this could also simply be a cost cutting measure , however I really don't think so.

Will the steel driveshaft offer less PERFORMANCE than the CFDS version ?

Minimally. About the same loss in performance for M mirrors. If you have a car on order, it shouldn't change your mind on purchase.

Finally , another person mentioned that FORD has done the same thing with one of their vehicles. I'm betting that the " bling " doesn't really offer a cost vs performance benefit and may actually have a negative for the owner over time in some fashion ( higher failure rate etc )

[otay]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Erm, something that gives off a hell of a lot of heat......maybe like a particulate filter that needs high heat regeneration cycles?

Seriously people, CFRP cannot stand high heat, so you cannot put something very hot near it. It sounds to me like there isn't the space to fit this new emissions filter without it being almost wrapped around the driveshaft. But it gets hot, so a steel shaft used instead.

This right here. PPF/GPF is an exhaust component, and gov regulations are requiring it (or similar tech to meet emissions standards). 2 minutes of Google-ing, folks... that's all it takes.

Until we know the shaft weight difference, everyone should calm t.f. down...

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

We can joke about it as much as we want, but the CFRP driveshaft was marketed as a big thing when the F8X was released.

The names are changing too.

m3 and m4 heavyweight

[PawnStar]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet, but...

Maybe it's because the CFDS was so light and rigid , thats what was causing the jerky throttle starts.

I know in mine, it happens very easily, and once it starts , you have to completely back off the throttle until it stops. Mine is a DCT BTW, and happens in all throttle mappings under the right conditions.

no jerky throttle starts in my manual M4. Car is as smooth as my right foot allows. So nothing to do with CF driveshaft.

[Artemis]

"This measure will create the necessary technical basis for meeting future statutory emissions requirements."

Let someone please tell BMW that hydraulic steering systems and naturally-aspirated engines are better for the environment (even if it's fake news).