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      02-11-2015, 02:37 PM   #1
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Interview: Development of the new BMW M3 and M4. (Part 2)

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Part 2 of the Development of the new M3/M4 from M-Power.com [also see Part 1]:

http://m-power.com/_open/b/editorial.jsp?lang=en&x=3283

Interview: Development of the new BMW M3 and BMW M4. (Part 2).
How do you create an icon?
Part 2: The wish for realism.



The BMW M3 Sedan, BMW M4 Coupé and BMW M4 Convertible are the latest additions in a long success story. We wanted to know how they came about. So we asked two central members of the development team, product manager Christoph Smieskol and project manager Michael Wimbeck, to tell us more. The first part of the interview ('A question of character') dealt mainly with the goals that the designers set themselves; the question they address in this second part is how the high-performance M automobiles made their way onto the roads.







Christoph Smieskol (left) and Michael Wimbeck.
Mr Wimbeck, How do you go about making an M automobile like the BMW M3 or BMW M4?


Michael Wimbeck: The first thing we think about is how to find the best way of realising what is required of the vehicle.


We are not so dogmatic that we stick stubbornly to a particular type of technology, but we do have a clear idea of what the M stands for. The M philosophy is to give the customer an overall concept that is as coherent as possible. This in turn determines the choice of technology.









For example, with the new BMW M3 and M4, we decided to move over from an eight-cylinder naturally aspirated engine to a newly designed M TwinPower turbo six-cylinder and to develop a new electromechanical steering.









It was quite clear to us that our fans would question us most intensively about these two new developments. And now that the cars are out on the road, we have received a lot of positive criticism, particularly in these two points. It can therefore be concluded that we have succeeded in our mission of creating a benchmark vehicle within the competition field.

The development process did not require us to make any major leaps forward or suddenly base our activities on new technologies. The common thread retains its validity from start to finish; only then is it possible to maintain the high depth of development and to achieve the overall design harmony that forms the focal point of every M automobile. Only then are the components perfectly coordinated with each other. If, after half of the development period has passed, I suddenly notice that I have to take a sudden change in direction, then I cannot attain this depth of development.







Christoph Smieskol: An important aspect of the project was that we always maintained a clear understanding of what it was we wanted. We defined the character of the BMW M3 and BMW M4 on the basis of the M philosophy, and we always had a clear and consistent image of where it was we were going. The factor of weight reduction was our yardstick. And the heart of every M automobile is its engine. We had to be certain that both of these areas were elaborated absolutely coherently to ensure that in the end, the overall design harmony that we wanted was discernable. No individual department worked alone but everyone maintained a clear vision of our objective in the form of the overall package.

Michael Wimbeck: We have some real technology freaks in some of our departments. And whenever you spoke with these colleagues and asked them how they would go about doing things, the answer they gave you was often one that exactly matched our philosophy. Sometimes, these colleagues thought that they weren't allowed to do what they really wanted to do. And very often, we said, 'no, no that is just the right thing. Contribute your ideas. Make a really cool car, one that you would like to drive yourself.' And once they realised that could – and were even expected to – approach things that way, the result was fantastic.









You get the impression that there are many people working together on a relatively small space at BMW M GmbH, people who really put their heart and soul into what they do.



Christoph Smieskol: Yes, that is true. The short distances are important, and after a few projects I can really say that we have an outstanding team. I have experienced many 'aficionados' who are all part of the process and often take unconventional routes towards their objective. There is no work to rule without looking left or right, but everyone thinks together to find the best way of reaching the common goal. There are many examples of this: with regard to the steering, there were some long discussions about how it should be dimensioned so that it would work with maximum precision and spread. How should the exhaust system sound and how do we create the right sound?







Race driver Bruno Spengler (left) and Bernd Barbisch.
We have repeatedly enhanced the tyres in collaboration with the supplier – at times based on feedback received from DTM racing drivers. This necessitates looping through the top people in the technical departments a few times to ensure that in the end, the car turns out exactly as it has.







Kick-off.
Michael Wimbeck: As a project team, I see our job as giving these colleagues the freedom to create the working conditions they need to attain optimum results, obviously bearing in mind the tight cost targets. When people are realising themselves while moving in the right direction, you have to give them the space they need to do it. It is also important to interconnect them properly and say, 'shall we sit down in this or that grouping and talk about the following problem?' Although actually, that isn't so difficult. The development department here in Garching is of a manageable size and many people also spend time together outside work. Even then, we talk a lot about our development activities. But in the end, I believe that you can really see if a car has been built with passion by people who have had the chance to dedicate themselves to the job.


Creating a clearly defined consensus in terms of the goal to be achieved enables a certain freedom in the form of the realisation.


It is important to get people together around a table at an early stage. This often gives rise to possibilities that nobody would previously have thought of.


Christoph Smieskol: A good example of this is the tailgate of the BMW M4 Coupé: in the course of the tests conducted for the project at the Nürburgring north loop, it was noted that the aerodynamic balance of the Coupé was not perfect. This meant that we had to devise an optimisation for the boot lid.









We could simply have stuck a spoiler on it. But with the BMW M4 Coupé, its size would have had to be far in excess of the small spoiler lip that works so well in the BMW M3 Sedan. This would not have been compatible with weight requirements and it would have left the designers gasping for air (laughs). Which led to the suggestion from the technical departments to integrate the spoiler in the shape of the tailgate. And while we are redesigning the tailgate, then we can make it considerably lighter than the standard part by using C-SMC material. Then the designer had the idea of continuing the design line of the powerdomes over the roof and into the tailgate. In this way, everybody contributed towards optimising the final aerodynamics, design and weight.









Michael Wimbeck: It was a similar thing with some of the component modules. The question was often 'if we are going to have change this module anyway to comply with our specifications, what else is there that we can do on top? The necessary change is going to incur costs anyway, so let's sit down together and try to come up with some ways of getting more use out of the modification.'


For example weight reduction: cars are getting bigger and bigger and basically also heavier. Reducing a car's weight is a difficult and costly process. It is as if every single gram saved takes a major effort.


Michael Wimbeck: The subject of lightweight construction is a very detailed business. Each individual has to make his own contribution. Of course there are some highlights like our CFK components. But it is no longer the case nowadays that you can simple replace five parts and suddenly the car is thirty kilograms lighter – not even if you spend a lot of money on it. The components of the base vehicle are already so well dimensioned by BMW AG that you ultimately need a broad-based attack to achieve the kind of weight-saving that we have managed to do with the BMW M3 and BMW M4, and one that serves the overall design harmony.







http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...struction.html
Mr Wimbeck, you once told me that this overall design harmony only became visible at a relatively late stage in the development process. Is it true that it only becomes apparent that components are at various stages of development after they have been installed in the test vehicles?


Michael Wimbeck: Yes that is correct. First of all, each technical department performs optimisations within its own field. The department can already selectively evaluate its results with its trained eyes, but it is only when everything comes together that the pictures pans back to reveal the vehicle as a whole. Great praise is deserved by those colleagues who manage to optimise their area of the design without being able to refer to the rest in optimum form.









The advantage to us is that we are able to conduct simultaneous tests across different departments at our test centre in southern France, in the winter test at Arjeplog in Sweden (LINK) and at the Nürburgring. This allows colleagues to discuss things and systematically compare notes; for example the engine team can engage in exchanges with the control systems team or chassis and tyre team, etc. We don't have to wait until the next department gets hold of the car, but together we benefit from a huge joint surge in development.


One example concerning overall design harmony: Every Friday we used to have a meeting at the Regensburg plant in which the BMW M3 Sedan and BMW M4 Convertible were being built. The motorway from Munich to Regensburg is at times somewhat demanding. I made the most of the opportunity to drive a different test vehicle to Regensburg virtually every Friday and to compare it each time with my own BMW M3 E92. For quite a long time, I felt more comfortable in my BMW M3 E92 when driving in the fast motorway bends.









At some point, I spoke to Markus Gratzl, the head of our chassis development department. I can still remember telling him, 'Markus, something isn't right. I am driving the new car with sweat breaking out on my forehead but when I drive my own BMW M3."







Markus Gratzl (left) and race driver Timo Glock.
E92, I feel like I can count the daisies on the side of the road, despite my high speed.' Markus laughed and promised me that next time I would get a car in which not just some components were at a high state of development, but all of them. The following Friday,I couldn't stop grinning, because I thought I was now finally sitting in the right car, now I could drive relaxed and with precision. This is not something that only a professional driver or racing driver would notice but even someone like me, when driving from Munich to a meeting in Regensburg.


Did the cooperation between the Munich and Regensburg plants, in which the BMW M4 Coupé, BMW M3 Sedan and BMW M4 Convertible were built, play an important role?


Michael Wimbeck: The two plants in Munich and Regensburg supported us extremely well. We repeatedly tormented the colleagues there with our demands on the production facilities, such as the rigidity measures that were implemented in the body shell.









Our argumentation was always – 'this is a BMW M3, or a BMW M4, we simply need these part in our vehicle. However you choose to make them in a large series-production process, they are absolutely vital for the character of this vehicle.' Most of the time, we were able to convince them pretty quickly and there was no instance where they managed to talk us out of it.







Buildt in Regensburg: BMW M3 Sedan and BMW M4 Convertible.
I took every opportunity to follow the process along the production line when each first vehicle was being made, both in Munich and Regensburg. Only then do you see what 'crimes' you have committed and what efforts and flexibility are required. Both plant teams deserve huge, huge praise for going the proverbial extra mile for our sake.







BMW M4 Coupé in BMW's Munich plant.
Christoph Smieskol: The BMW M3 had been built at the Regensburg plant for many years already, so they were already familiar with our demands.







Plant Regensburg.
But for the Munich plant, this was the first time in 23 years that they were building an M automobile. The works manager and works project manager were not only 100% with us but it even felt like 180%. You could even tell from the team there what enthusiasm and motivation a car like this can generate. There were some who all but kneeled down before the first finished vehicles – the BMW M4 Coupés were literally surrounded by large groups of people.







Hermann Bohrer.
Mr Bohrer, the head of the Munich plant said that on a number of occasions they were called upon to learn something new. Even though they appeared surprised about a few things, they realised that was how it had to be.


Michael Wimbeck: When the preliminary series was finished and a few more vehicles were available at the plant, I told everyone who was involved with our car, 'please take one of these cars home with you, drive it around, and if you are fully confused and cannot tell what is right or wrong – then all is well. You just have to keep on driving and at some point the moment will come when you are addicted to exactly that. Then we have done our job.'


One question that is frequently asked is how you chose the colours Austin Yellow for the BMW M4 Coupé and Yasmarina Blue for the BMW M3 Sedan?









Christoph Smieskol: We have a certain colour tradition. There are certain historically defined colours at BMW M, both with respect to blue and the different yellow hues. We have been doing this for several generations already, so the question was how to carry on with this tradition and develop it further.







Brochure BMW M3 Coupé (E46).
We don't want to keep applying the old colours but we wish to move things on as we advance towards the future. Yellow is a characteristic colour that matches the carbon-fibre parts and also goes very well with the dark wheel rims. This is where we have revived the tradition of the BMW M3 E46 and BMW M3 E36.







Former Guigaro M.
The blue theme has also passed through the generations. Blue is one of the three colours that appear in the three stripes of the Guigaro M. Based on this, we were able to work together with the designers to find the optimum direction.








Michael Wimbeck: We even managed to have the second ever BMW M4 Coupé to leave the production line painted in Austin Yellow. You can imagine the commotion in the plant when this car passed through the line.


If you were to order one yourself, whether a BMW M3 Sedan or a BMW M4 Coupé? How would you want it to look?







BMW M3 Sedan.
Christoph Smieskol: That is a very difficult question. To begin with, I was a great fan of the BMW M4 Coupé. But now, the more I see the BMW M3 Sedan, the more I like its quite particular character. The four doors in conjunction with the large wheel arches are rather impudent.







Michael Wimbeck (right), Michael Wimbeck's BMW M4 Coupé and Christoph Smieskol (left))
Michael Wimbeck: I have already chosen the BMW M4 Coupé almost with the launch specification, i.e. in the same way that the car was presented to the public. In Austin Yellow, with black rims, and black full-leather upholstery. I have spent the last three years seeing to it that we produce a vehicle exactly like this – and so obviously that was the one I wanted to have.







Michael Wimbeck in hiis BMW M4 Coupé. Mention the baby seats in the back....
Christoph Smieskol: And in case you are unable to find a new colour that reflects your ideal wishes: we recently had a BMW M3 Sedan standing here in mineral grey, with black rims and a BMW Individual Amaro Brown interior – this was indeed a fascinating colour combination.


Mr Smieskol and Mr Wimbeck, thank you very much for the interview.
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      02-11-2015, 02:44 PM   #2
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Sweet!! Thanks for sharing.

I found this comment interesting: "The development process did not require us to make any major leaps forward or suddenly base our activities on new technologies."

I'm not too sure how to digest that, other than tried and true technologies are sufficient to create a new icon?
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      02-11-2015, 02:46 PM   #3
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Thanks for posting!
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      02-11-2015, 02:49 PM   #4
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Thanks!!
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      02-11-2015, 02:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Posting the 2nd part of the interview as published 10min ago on m-Power.com:

http://m-power.com/_open/b/editorial.jsp?lang=en&x=3283

(Noticed that my previous post on the interview part 1, which was NOT posted on these forums when I posted it, was merged into a new thread started by one of the mods apparently several hours before my post... Even though all of the comments on that thread is posted AFTER my original thread was posted... Strange...)
Thanks for posting Boss
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      02-11-2015, 02:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
We don't want to keep applying the old colours but we wish to move things on as we advance towards the future. Yellow is a characteristic colour that matches the carbon-fibre parts and also goes very well with the dark wheel rims. This is where we have revived the tradition of the BMW M3 E46 and BMW M3 E36.
Quote:
hat is a very difficult question. To begin with, I was a great fan of the BMW M4 Coupé. But now, the more I see the BMW M3 Sedan, the more I like its quite particular character. The four doors in conjunction with the large wheel arches are rather impudent.
Yum.
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      02-11-2015, 03:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor///M View Post
Sweet!! Thanks for sharing.

I found this comment interesting: "The development process did not require us to make any major leaps forward or suddenly base our activities on new technologies."

I'm not too sure how to digest that, other than tried and true technologies are sufficient to create a new icon?
I think the rest of the paragraph is the key:

Quote:
The development process did not require us to make any major leaps forward or suddenly base our activities on new technologies. The common thread retains its validity from start to finish; only then is it possible to maintain the high depth of development and to achieve the overall design harmony that forms the focal point of every M automobile. Only then are the components perfectly coordinated with each other. If, after half of the development period has passed, I suddenly notice that I have to take a sudden change in direction, then I cannot attain this depth of development.
As I understand it, they are saying "we decided early to go down this direction and could then spend the entire development period perfecting it, rather than being uncertain on day 1 and making herky-jerky movements back and forth and ending up with a less well tested/developed/half-baked project"
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      02-11-2015, 03:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myzmak View Post
I think the rest of the paragraph is the key:



As I understand it, they are saying "we decided early to go down this direction and could then spend the entire development period perfecting it, rather than being uncertain on day 1 and making herky-jerky movements back and forth and ending up with a less well tested/developed/half-baked project"
True. I guess it's finding that delicate balance, since they surely would've come up with a list of improvements based on the previous gen while having to adopt a sustainable approach to development of the new model.
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      02-11-2015, 03:43 PM   #9
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The greatest and most iconic "everyday" cars are ones that have not taken technological leaps each generation. They were not revolutionary. Instead, they focused on evolutionary engineering towards perfection.

A 911 is what it is because they haven't been constantly toying with integrating new technologies or dramatically changing the drivetrain around. Think about this fact: Not only has the 911 (the core models) used the same layout and powertrain design for 9 generations or so....since 1995 the displacement of the 911 and 911 S has not changed by more than 6-7% or about .2 liters. In 20 years, those engineers have been refining a platform whose biggest weight driver (the engine) and chassis structure (placing the engine) has stayed within 6-7% basic sizing. The main change, and it was a big one, was going to water cooling....a technology Porsche had already used in house for many years before they put it on the 911. The big truly new changes in the engine were things like moving away from the Mezger block, which they screwed up, and direct injection.

Same thing with the Vette. While they've changed in size/displacement around a bit more, but those engineers focused on developing the best pushrod v8 for a sports car they could.

It saves soooo much effort to stay with consistent design themes and allows it be directed elsewhere. Which is why I think this m3 is the best showroom stock in terms of weight reduction and weight placement, chassis design and rigidity, cooling, and braking performance.
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      02-11-2015, 07:42 PM   #10
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The longer I own this car the more I live it. Ess tune helps to
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      02-11-2015, 10:30 PM   #11
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Even the lead design engineers prefer the M3 lol
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      02-11-2015, 11:19 PM   #12
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I love my F80, but this puff piece was just too much.
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      02-12-2015, 02:21 AM   #13
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now how are they going to top this.. hmmm
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      02-12-2015, 09:10 AM   #14
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Very cool. Thank you for sharing!
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The lack of love won't come from the fact that it's not on a race track but rather that it is on the ground and, in fact, ruined.
my 2 feets are currently on the ground, are they ruined? haha
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      02-12-2015, 09:47 AM   #15
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I love reading through stuff like this. It always amazes me how much goes into these cars. When I drive them I totally get it.
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      02-12-2015, 08:22 PM   #16
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Two paragraphs of why BMW is getting soft

In a company like BMW AG, of whom BMW M GmbH is a subsidiary, it is not so easy to get a vehicle with such a unique position into serial production. We had to convince many people that a vehicle like this is even allowed to have such an independent character, because customers really expect this character.

Sometimes, these colleagues thought that they weren't allowed to do what they really wanted to do. And very often, we said, 'no, no that is just the right thing. Contribute your ideas. Make a really cool car, one that you would like to drive yourself.' And once they realised that could – and were even expected to – approach things that way, the result was fa
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      02-12-2015, 09:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oaktree View Post
Two paragraphs of why BMW is getting soft

In a company like BMW AG, of whom BMW M GmbH is a subsidiary, it is not so easy to get a vehicle with such a unique position into serial production. We had to convince many people that a vehicle like this is even allowed to have such an independent character, because customers really expect this character.

Sometimes, these colleagues thought that they weren't allowed to do what they really wanted to do. And very often, we said, 'no, no that is just the right thing. Contribute your ideas. Make a really cool car, one that you would like to drive yourself.' And once they realised that could – and were even expected to – approach things that way, the result was fa
I'm sorry but.....you drive an X5.....and you post about BMW going soft.....

To each his own in car choice, but those who not only live in glass houses, but help build them...........
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      02-13-2015, 07:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myzmak View Post
I'm sorry but.....you drive an X5.....and you post about BMW going soft.....

To each his own in car choice, but those who not only live in glass houses, but help build them...........
Unfortunately my e92 M3 can't tow the e36 M3 to the race track. And my point is corporate culture. In large companies (which I used to work for) you can create a culture where people feel they can't what they think is right for the car and brand because it wasn't in the product brief. I find this irritating since M is a performance brand. When you have convince somebody to speak up and do X it's sad. It sounds like M needs more leeway from BMW. I believe this is why the i brand is a separate silo as they believed it never would have come to fruition under standard layers of BMW management. They know it, the interviewers know it and I hope they continue to push for better vehicles.
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      02-13-2015, 09:15 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Oaktree View Post
Unfortunately my e92 M3 can't tow the e36 M3 to the race track. And my point is corporate culture. In large companies (which I used to work for) you can create a culture where people feel they can't what they think is right for the car and brand because it wasn't in the product brief. I find this irritating since M is a performance brand. When you have convince somebody to speak up and do X it's sad. It sounds like M needs more leeway from BMW. I believe this is why the i brand is a separate silo as they believed it never would have come to fruition under standard layers of BMW management. They know it, the interviewers know it and I hope they continue to push for better vehicles.
I understand the practical need for an SUV and your point. However, my point was that at least one of your vehicle choices is the sort of commercial success that many people would say led to the friction behind the quotations you had above.

And to put those in more context, they come as follows:

Quote:
Christoph Smieskol: We wanted to turn the wheel back a little and give the car a few of its rough edges back, to turn its performance into something with more experience value. This is reflected in the fact that we still offer manual gear changing, because the customers still want to deal more consciously with the car's operation, both with and without throttle blipping. We also wanted to enhance the response of the brakes, steering and chassis and make the vehicle and its reactions even more directly experiential. I can really feel what I am driving.

Was everyone immediately thrilled?


Michael Wimbeck: In a company like BMW AG, of whom BMW M GmbH is a subsidiary, it is not so easy to get a vehicle with such a unique position into serial production. We had to convince many people that a vehicle like this is even allowed to have such an independent character, because customers really expect this character.

There were several long discussions, in which I often heard, 'Mr Wimbeck, we need to satisfy the most critical customers,' to which I replied that from my point of view, it did not apply so absolutely to an M automobile. Because if we always wanted to satisfy the most critical customers, there would be times when we would be disadvantaging 99% of the other customers.


Once example concerns the sound when the waste gate is opened (LINK), whistling sounds could be heard. We said that this was characteristic and that it wouldn't worry anyone if they heard that this was in fact a turbo engine whenever they took their foot off the pedal. In an M car, such behaviour is not only admissible, it is actually desirable.

Christoph Smieskol: The subject of sound is a very sensitive one in M automobiles. There are many operational noises that we regard as part of the car's natural character. Whether these are intake noises, the sound of the exhaust valves opening, or gearbox sounds, they indicate to the driver what is going on in the car at any given moment. In this respect, it is not desirable to smoothen out every single irregularity.

However, it takes a lot of effort to convince people. As Michael already said, people often think quite differently at BMW AG – simply because of the different demands that customers place on their vehicles. A BMW 320d might want to drive thirty or forty thousand kilometres a year with as little bother as possible. But our customers want to experience something every day. They are fascinated with the act of driving – so you can see that the demands placed on a car made by BMW AG are often completely different from those of a high-performance M automobile.

Michael Wimbeck: It was very important that everybody pulled in the same direction and that they all supported us when it came to convincing people. This is what ultimately allowed us to turn the character screw a little further.


....

Christoph Smieskol: An important aspect of the project was that we always maintained a clear understanding of what it was we wanted. We defined the character of the BMW M3 and BMW M4 on the basis of the M philosophy, and we always had a clear and consistent image of where it was we were going. The factor of weight reduction was our yardstick. And the heart of every M automobile is its engine. We had to be certain that both of these areas were elaborated absolutely coherently to ensure that in the end, the overall design harmony that we wanted was discernable. No individual department worked alone but everyone maintained a clear vision of our objective in the form of the overall package.

Michael Wimbeck: We have some real technology freaks in some of our departments. And whenever you spoke with these colleagues and asked them how they would go about doing things, the answer they gave you was often one that exactly matched our philosophy. Sometimes, these colleagues thought that they weren't allowed to do what they really wanted to do. And very often, we said, 'no, no that is just the right thing. Contribute your ideas. Make a really cool car, one that you would like to drive yourself.' And once they realised that could – and were even expected to – approach things that way, the result was fantastic.


Frankly, I think this is just stating a bit of an obvious point. M is a subsidiary of BMW. BMW makes vehicles with commercial appeal for the masses (ie: the X5 or the 320d), which vehciles have to be made comfortable all the time.

M vehicles have a more targeted audience with whom (the point he was making) some discomfort built in so that the driver can have a more connected experience in driving.

BMW has always been a very big company and I wouldn't expect the internal "unleash your creativity/make a car that is different from the main brand" discussions on the F8X team to have been any different from the discussions on either of your M3s.

Put another way, I don't think your initial thesis of BMW "going soft" because they work to establish their unique needs within the larger/soft brand is valid. I think this is much more a "tale as old as time" situation.
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      02-13-2015, 10:04 AM   #20
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BMW can create any car they want and I support that 150%. I'm wishing for an X7 and I think the 2 series active tourer is a good looking mini-van, bring it on! Everyone has to cultivate the core business to allow them to innovate in new categories, i brand and M.
How I read it and interpreted the article is the discussions were different on the F8X than the e9X. The article stated they were trying to get back the life that made the e46 M3 the bestselling M3, having to change internally how people think of the car, clear goals of getting weight out, the need to make it more wild, need to reprogram the sport settings so the delta is bigger and you can't run sport plus in the snow. Those tidbits tell me they think they lost some of the M roots – speed, lightness, agility. To me they got "soft" and had to refocus efforts on the F8X. This will be my end of comments and I’m looking forward to my 2016 M3.
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      02-13-2015, 11:57 AM   #21
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2015 F80 M3  [10.00]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oaktree View Post
BMW can create any car they want and I support that 150%. I'm wishing for an X7 and I think the 2 series active tourer is a good looking mini-van, bring it on! Everyone has to cultivate the core business to allow them to innovate in new categories, i brand and M.
How I read it and interpreted the article is the discussions were different on the F8X than the e9X. The article stated they were trying to get back the life that made the e46 M3 the bestselling M3, having to change internally how people think of the car, clear goals of getting weight out, the need to make it more wild, need to reprogram the sport settings so the delta is bigger and you can't run sport plus in the snow. Those tidbits tell me they think they lost some of the M roots – speed, lightness, agility. To me they got "soft" and had to refocus efforts on the F8X. This will be my end of comments and I’m looking forward to my 2016 M3.
Yes, I agree with this point. I think (especially with part 1 of the interview) that is exactly what they are getting at - something that is now (maybe) beginning to be appreciated in reviews of the F8X.

I'm not sure it was specific to ///M and BMW, though. I think that as the 1990s became the 2000s there was a general push in car making to go 'bigger and more lux'. the E9x just went along with that trend (as it had to in order to compete/sell). I like the refocus here, though, on the edge instead of just 'bigger, more features, more power'.

....hope to see you back here when you get the F80 M3.
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      02-14-2015, 11:37 PM   #22
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But these 3 series cars are simply getting too big to really get back to the E46 "roots" on really minimal weight savings (but a step in the right direction). Know a few hardcore M guys that are waiting for the M2 instead.

Also this whole "we are not so dogmatic anymore, so we really looked at everything and decided upon a turbo" is complete and utter BS. I think this company has completely lost me as a future customer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oaktree View Post
BMW can create any car they want and I support that 150%. I'm wishing for an X7 and I think the 2 series active tourer is a good looking mini-van, bring it on! Everyone has to cultivate the core business to allow them to innovate in new categories, i brand and M.
How I read it and interpreted the article is the discussions were different on the F8X than the e9X. The article stated they were trying to get back the life that made the e46 M3 the bestselling M3, having to change internally how people think of the car, clear goals of getting weight out, the need to make it more wild, need to reprogram the sport settings so the delta is bigger and you can't run sport plus in the snow. Those tidbits tell me they think they lost some of the M roots – speed, lightness, agility. To me they got "soft" and had to refocus efforts on the F8X. This will be my end of comments and I’m looking forward to my 2016 M3.

Last edited by FogCityM3; 02-14-2015 at 11:45 PM..
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