Anyone else get banned from the G8X section for making fun of its looks?

[Tecnniqe]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

More Hyundai N content, they just put out this fantastic ad today.

And to hear Biermann talk about the new Kona N, head to 8:35.

Thats a good ad!

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I giggle at the Hyundai references. None of us are buying Biermann's Hyundai's.

100% would buy a Veloster N. If my son has his way, I'll have to.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I giggle at the Hyundai references. None of us are buying Biermann's Hyundai's.

Well they aren't the same class of car so that would make sense. Those of us looking for an M3 competitor are not going to pick up a Veloster, they aren't even for comparing. The point for these posts isn't to compare Hyundai N vs BMW M3, as they are clearly going after different markets, but rather showcase Hyundai's enthusiasm and focus on more performance oriented vehicles for enthusiasts. This is just a starting point for Hyundai, a future that they are building and a commitment to the enthusiast market that they are trying to make. While many of us here can afford much more than a hot hatch Hyundai for our everyday and weekend cars, not everyone can sadly afford a BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche. More enthusiasts cars at a low cost of entry while still providing great fun are great for everyone.

Hyundai has shown us that they can turn s*** into greatness. If you asked someone in the 90's what future Hyundai/Kia would have in the US , most people would have said dead in the water. But Hyundai took their criticisms and built upon them. Now look at them, Tellurides are literally all sold out with markups despite being on the market for two years, they are introducing performance variants of their sedans, hatches, and SUV's, new EV's are being showcased to secure their future (Kia even has a 500+ HP EV ready for 2022), and they have even built a great luxury brand with serious contenders. Who would have thought?

The wife and I have been very close to picking up a G70, but we only didn't pull the trigger because we needed an SUV at a time that they didn't offer one, but I could definitely see a future with a Hyundai/Kia/Genesis in the garage, they are a brand that I seriously look forward to with great interest in the future.

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Well they aren't the same class of car so that would make sense. Those of us looking for an M3 competitor are not going to pick up a Veloster, they aren't even for comparing. The point for these posts isn't to compare Hyundai N vs BMW M3, as they are clearly going after different markets, but rather showcase Hyundai's enthusiasm and focus on more performance oriented vehicles for enthusiasts. This is just a starting point for Hyundai, a future that they are building and a commitment to the enthusiast market that they are trying to make. While many of us here can afford much more than a hot hatch Hyundai for our everyday and weekend cars, not everyone can sadly afford a BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche. More enthusiasts cars at a low cost of entry while still providing great fun are great for everyone.

Hyundai has shown us that they can turn s*** into greatness. If you asked someone in the 90's what future Hyundai/Kia would have in the US , most people would have said dead in the water. But Hyundai took their criticisms and built upon them. Now look at them, Tellurides are literally all sold out with markups despite being on the market for two years, they are introducing performance variants of their sedans, hatches, and SUV's, new EV's are being showcased to secure their future (Kia even has a 500+ HP EV ready for 2022), and they have even built a great luxury brand with serious contenders. Who would have thought?

The wife and I have been very close to picking up a G70, but we only didn't pull the trigger because we needed an SUV at a time that they didn't offer one, but I could definitely see a future with a Hyundai/Kia/Genesis in the garage, they are a brand that I seriously look forward to with great interest in the future.

My old man used to only drive German cars : M3s, C63s, etc etc.

Then he decided he was getting old and promptly traded them all in for a telluride and a stinger.

Hyundai/Kia are making some mega cars these days.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by dialogical

My old man used to only drive German cars : M3s, C63s, etc etc.

Then he decided he was getting old and promptly traded them all in for a telluride and a stinger.

Hyundai/Kia are making some mega cars these days.

Agree, my uncle has a Stinger and also came from years of MB's and BMW's, excellent GT car, really nails the dual personality, not to mention looks great (he got the beautiful red press color) and super practical with the hatch.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by dialogical

My old man used to only drive German cars : M3s, C63s, etc etc.

Then he decided he was getting old and promptly traded them all in for a telluride and a stinger.

Hyundai/Kia are making some mega cars these days.

I drove the Stinger at a pre-release test performed by an auto rag. It's good, but it's no BMW 3.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I drove the Stinger at a pre-release test performed by an auto rag. It's good, but it's no BMW 3.

Well its the size and weight of the 5 and more GT oriented, it's definitely better than any current G30. The Genesis G70 is the 3er competitor and is more fun to drive than the Stinger due to the smaller dimensions and less weight. In my opinion though both products were better than the F30 (even in LCI form).

[CT_M3]

Not arguing on the performance. It should BE better, otherwise, it'd be a flop of engineering proportions unlike anything BMW has experienced yet.

I'm fine with the performance, but then slapping on more hp covers up issues like added weight etc. Engine technology has incrementally advanced so I would expect the S58 to be better. It's not engineering excellence, its engineering laziness. Take for example the newly revealed GT3. Did Porsche dump a more powerful engine? No. Instead they chose to make changes all around the car with major changes to suspension and aero.

Think of the size of the car, its huge now! I've seen the new cars in person and its just too much. There's a certain threshold personally for what I look for in a fun tossable car. More size is not it. I can't overlook the size of the car, but there's nothing else other than the 2 series and there are no 2 series M sedans (yet).

For me, the doodads do nothing. Name me something fundamentally significant in the G series that isn't in the F series. You have everything you need. Digital gauges are poorly executed and will age poorly with time. Yes, the entertainment value is high initially, but I'm not into those because I know that after a year, it will be blaise. That's not what I got this car for.

If I was looking for a car with those dimensions, I might as well go for the big kahuna M5 Competition.

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

I hear you. I would just note there is a fundamental difference in corporate strategy here mentioned by others: BMW M is dependent on the platforms developed by BMW because the M3 is not and has never been a standalone product like the 911. BMW M can only do so much with what they are given.

That said, I don't have any problem with the way the G80 drives. I did a test drive (of a manual sedan) and I think it's brilliant. Reviewers who know more than I say it has tons of grip, it's as tossable as the shorter wheelbase F87, it's comfortable, the interior is a huge upgrade from the F-series cars, it's as fast or slightly faster (incremental improvement is still improvement) than the F80 in a straight line and around a track, etc. Yes, the loss of the DCT is a shame. And the styling is really controversial and probably too dramatic. But for the grilles, though, I think we'd all be having a much different conversation.

[Tecnniqe]

Originally Posted by CT_M3

Name me something fundamentally significant in the G series that isn't in the F series.

The Drift app

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by CT_M3

Not arguing on the performance. It should BE better, otherwise, it'd be a flop of engineering proportions unlike anything BMW has experienced yet.

I'm fine with the performance, but then slapping on more hp covers up issues like added weight etc. Engine technology has incrementally advanced so I would expect the S58 to be better. It's not engineering excellence, its engineering laziness. Take for example the newly revealed GT3. Did Porsche dump a more powerful engine? No. Instead they chose to make changes all around the car with major changes to suspension and aero.

Think of the size of the car, its huge now! I've seen the new cars in person and its just too much. There's a certain threshold personally for what I look for in a fun tossable car. More size is not it. I can't overlook the size of the car, but there's nothing else other than the 2 series and there are no 2 series M sedans (yet).

For me, the doodads do nothing. Name me something fundamentally significant in the G series that isn't in the F series. You have everything you need. Digital gauges are poorly executed and will age poorly with time. Yes, the entertainment value is high initially, but I'm not into those because I know that after a year, it will be blaise. That's not what I got this car for.

If I was looking for a car with those dimensions, I might as well go for the big kahuna M5 Competition.

I keeping hearing this "oh the M3 is just an M5 now so I'll just get that" stuff floating around the internet these days. The only issue is that comparison isn't really valid.

Yes, the new M3 is a whopping 4 inches bigger. It's also more than 400lbs lighter than the new M5. It's even more than 200lbs lighter than the E39 M5.

Every reviewer I've seen has spoken at length about how the M3 has much more engaging steering, feels more tossable and nimble, and communicates better than the M5. As someone who has driven both, I wholeheartedly agree.

If you want to say that the M3 loses something without the DCT, that's fair. If you want to call it ugly that's your opinion to hold. But saying the M3 is just like the M5 is objectively false.

[CT_M3]

You know the saying, crossing the Rubicon? That's what I mean. Once you've crossed it, you look at other alternatives. That's my point.

For a demonstration of what I mean, see Matt Farah's video.

(3:20 onwards mark)

We can agree to disagree. Car choices are subjective, a blend of emotions, objective numbers and subjective needs and wants. The G8x will never be on my radar (and I can say that pretty confidently).

Originally Posted by dialogical

I keeping hearing this "oh the M3 is just an M5 now so I'll just get that" stuff floating around the internet these days. The only issue is that comparison isn't really valid.

Yes, the new M3 is a whopping 4 inches bigger. It's also more than 400lbs lighter than the new M5. It's even more than 200lbs lighter than the E39 M5.

Every reviewer I've seen has spoken at length about how the M3 has much more engaging steering, feels more tossable and nimble, and communicates better than the M5. As someone who has driven both, I wholeheartedly agree.

If you want to say that the M3 loses something without the DCT, that's fair. If you want to call it ugly that's your opinion to hold. But saying the M3 is just like the M5 is objectively false.

[02M3ForMe]

In a few months to a year when cars are plentiful and proper test drives are much easier to come by, some of you are going to look back on some of these "M5" posts and cherry-picked YouTube reviews and say, "WTF was that guy talking about?"

[CT_M3]

Enjoy your car in good health! I've been nothing but respectful and I expect the same in a normal discourse. If you're happy with the car, great! But don't expect others to have the same opinion as you. We all have different perspectives.

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

In a few months to a year when cars are plentiful and proper test drives are much easier to come by, some of you are going to look back on some of these "M5" posts and say, "WTF was that guy talking about?"

[Multimodal]

Originally Posted by CT_M3

For me, the doodads do nothing. Name me something fundamentally significant in the G series that isn't in the F series. You have everything you need. Digital gauges are poorly executed and will age poorly with time. Yes, the entertainment value is high initially, but I'm not into those because I know that after a year, it will be blaise. That's not what I got this car for.

Difference of opinion there I guess. "You have everything you need" is a personal statement. My 70 year old parents have a different standard of "enough" than I do and my grandparents born in the 1920s would have another perspective yet again.

I went from an E70 X5 to G05 X5 last year primarily for the upgraded interior and cutting-edge capabilities like adaptive cruise control with lane-centering steering. It felt like I went from "analog" to "digital" and I loved that. Now I'm thinking about spending $60K on a M2C and it's hard to get comfortable with going back to "analog," especially when for $70K I could have a car that's regarded as delivering all the performance of the M2C with the modern accoutrements of the G-series interior.

[GERMAN M3]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

100% would buy a Veloster N. If my son has his way, I'll have to.

Yeah, my son is quite intrigued as well FormulaMMM . He is leaning towards some type of hatchback.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I drove the Stinger at a pre-release test performed by an auto rag. It's good, but it's no BMW 3.

I'd agree with this.

I drove the Stinger as well and my issue with it was how long it felt. Interior wasn't wowtastic but it wasn't bad either. Takes a bit getting used to.

The N cars by Biermann needs one thing badly, that's Limited Slip Diff or the darn thing will keep spinning it's tires because the front cannot handle it on it's own.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Arcades

The N cars by Biermann needs one thing badly, that's Limited Slip Diff or the darn thing will keep spinning it's tires because the front cannot handle it on it's own.

I think they have or are getting one, no?

Like most sporty DCTs, the Veloster N's will ship with paddle shifters and a launch control feature.

This new wet-clutch unit has been endurance-tested to ensure "sustained high-performance" levels, Hyundai says, backing its claim up with some footage of the Veloster N being hammered around what appears to be its California City proving grounds. Hyundai is also baking the current Veloster N's Performance package equipment — which includes the mechanical limited-slip differential — into the base model, which should make life easier for shoppers. Hyundai's suite of active driver assistance tech is also coming to the N as standard equipment.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Arcades

The N cars by Biermann needs one thing badly, that's Limited Slip Diff or the darn thing will keep spinning it's tires because the front cannot handle it on it's own.

I believe you're thinking of the N-Line cars (like M-Performance) which was in the Throttle House review posted in here a while back. I'm pretty sure the N cars have LSD's (I also believe they recently made it standard when they made the performance pack standard for the new model years).

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

I think they have or are getting one, no?

Like most sporty DCTs, the Veloster N's will ship with paddle shifters and a launch control feature.

This new wet-clutch unit has been endurance-tested to ensure "sustained high-performance" levels, Hyundai says, backing its claim up with some footage of the Veloster N being hammered around what appears to be its California City proving grounds. Hyundai is also baking the current Veloster N's Performance package equipment — which includes the mechanical limited-slip differential — into the base model, which should make life easier for shoppers. Hyundai's suite of active driver assistance tech is also coming to the N as standard equipment.

Think some of them are getting it but not all?

Either that or the Kia ones aren't. All I remember seeing (and I could be wrong) is that some of them don't have it.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by CT_M3

Enjoy your car in good health! I've been nothing but respectful and I expect the same in a normal discourse. If you're happy with the car, great! But don't expect others to have the same opinion as you. We all have different perspectives.

I appreciate you being respectful.

As I've said, I'm not trying to change your opinion. I'm pretty effective at soft selling. I'm being direct precisely because it doesn't matter to me whether you like the car or not.

I read something objectively false and I provided my counterpoint.

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by CT_M3

You know the saying, crossing the Rubicon? That's what I mean. Once you've crossed it, you look at other alternatives. That's my point.

For a demonstration of what I mean, see Matt Farah's video.

(3:20 onwards mark)

We can agree to disagree. Car choices are subjective, a blend of emotions, objective numbers and subjective needs and wants. The G8x will never be on my radar (and I can say that pretty confidently).

Gotcha. Your opinion is valid.

I do need to point out that the review you linked has a ton of errors and inaccuracies (emblematic of the smokingTire stuff now that Farah's essentially moved on and only doing it for money).

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by CT_M3

Enjoy your car in good health! I've been nothing but respectful and I expect the same in a normal discourse. If you're happy with the car, great! But don't expect others to have the same opinion as you. We all have different perspectives.

The thing with cars is the same always.

As cars gets newer, they lose something in return. Technology replaces driving interaction. The more electronics you shove in a car, the less engaging it will be.

That is true for every brand out there including Porsche. There is a reason why so many older and previous 911s like the previous 911 C2S w/ NA Flat Six. A car that is now close to 10 years old is selling close to 100k w/ 20k mileage on them because of the engine itself being preturbo. I saw my uncle buy one for a family friend of ours and ship it to Taiwan. He wanted purely because it was a NA engine and not the turbo one in the refresh.

Biermann threw a lot of shade at BMW for investing in "useless tech" in cars. Case in point, the Drift Analyzer.