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      03-25-2015, 12:16 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
The 2015 435i is classed as F street. I would think the M3 would be B-street based upon the cars I see there.
Well, based on my background I don't think it has a chance in B-street, and like I said the SEB never underclasses a new and expensive car -- they always err on the side of overclassing it just like they did initially with the E9x M3 in A-stock for a number of years. F-street is a catch all for *many* cars including the E39 M5, etc, etc. There are only a few cars that are competitive in the class however, and the 435i isn't one of them...not by a long shot. Remember, just because a car is put into a given class it doesn't mean it is even close to being a competitive car in that class. Things like an E34 525i and an AMC Javelin on classed in F-street too for example..care to try one of those? LOL There are many, many cars classed by the SCCA in various spots that have no chance of competing of course.

Note that going up against the S2000s and C5 Vettes is going to be one heck of a challenge simply due to the sheer size of the M3 requiring larger radii on every single element on the course. However, if it has a chance, someone will likely prep one and take it to Nationals -- hopefully they'll be a board member too!
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Last edited by CSBM5; 03-25-2015 at 12:22 PM..
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      03-25-2015, 12:45 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
No not at all. SCCA has a strict classing system, and the E9x M3 along with the S550 Mustang are *the* cars in F-street -- expect multiple national trophies this year by the E9x M3 as competitors are realizing its potential (one almost won in 2013, first year it was eligible in F-stock/street class). Miatas are in E-street -- totally different class and irrelevant to the discussion, although if you're talking about absolute times, E9x M3 F-street class top easily beat the best Miata times at the Nationals last year, but again, irrelevant since these cars are not classed together.

Just like at the track, the driver is a huge component of the equation. (spoken as a 40 year autocrosser, 35 year track/time trial/instructor).

Regards,
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Sorry, I should have been more clear. I was thinking about the 07 MSR package miata. Seems like that does very well in B street and the car that placed 3rd in that class sold recently here in San Diego for $10k.

If I was looking for an autoX toy seems like a $10k beater in B street would be more cost effective than the more $$ F streets you've mentioned.

Yea, I'm pretty clear that driver makes a big difference, thanks for that pro tip
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      03-25-2015, 12:48 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
If I was looking for an autoX toy seems like a $10k beater in B street would be more cost effective than the more $$ F streets you've mentioned.
I guess...would be more cost effective to buy a 10 year old Civic 4-door than a new F8x for daily driver duties too! Autox has all levels of expense from GT3s to shifter karts.
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      03-25-2015, 01:06 PM   #92
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Makes me wish I had kept my ol' boxster and stripped it down instead of selling it for <$9k.

Man I hated that shifter/trans/engine combo. And it's steering wheel was enormous. And I had it running 265 wide rears on a ~2800 pound, 205hp chassis....but damn if that thing couldn't stick to the ceiling if I was cornering hard enough....
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      03-25-2015, 01:31 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
I guess...would be more cost effective to buy a 10 year old Civic 4-door than a new F8x for daily driver duties too! Autox has all levels of expense from GT3s to shifter karts.
Don't remind me.

I briefly thought about going back down that road and bailing out of the F80 purchase as I was cutting the cheque (i.e. why I was looking at MSR Miata classifieds)
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      03-26-2015, 01:57 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
Still don't think B-street will work for it though, sadly. It needs to be in F-street most likely.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but my point is that F9x was really at the end one event, one car, one driver. He did superbly, amazing driver and well prep'd car. However, overall the F9x or the F8x is not the best platform for Nationals, hence people do not spend enough money to develop those cars. It is easier to do so with the marque and models you already mentioned.

At the same time, you are judging competitiveness within classes understandably, but as you also accurately mention, SCCA changes classes of cars over the years based on competitiveness. So, if the F8x ends up in F-stock, I would guess it will be more competitive than f9x if properly developed.

The reason I think that may be the case is because of the rear suspension, the amount of tire you can fit up front and there is so much work that still needs to be done to figure out the front bar and the shocks, not to mention that the f8x probably undercut f9x' weight too. It takes years to get to that level if someone is willing to put the money into it.
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      03-26-2015, 07:07 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
I agree with most of what you are saying, but my point is that F9x was really at the end one event, one car, one driver. He did superbly, amazing driver and well prep'd car. However, overall the F9x or the F8x is not the best platform for Nationals, hence people do not spend enough money to develop those cars. It is easier to do so with the marque and models you already mentioned.

At the same time, you are judging competitiveness within classes understandably, but as you also accurately mention, SCCA changes classes of cars over the years based on competitiveness. So, if the F8x ends up in F-stock, I would guess it will be more competitive than f9x if properly developed.

The reason I think that may be the case is because of the rear suspension, the amount of tire you can fit up front and there is so much work that still needs to be done to figure out the front bar and the shocks, not to mention that the f8x probably undercut f9x' weight too. It takes years to get to that level if someone is willing to put the money into it.
I think you're underestimating the E9x showings now in F-street. It's the flip side -- just now there are numerous decent drivers getting into the car for this season (witness the F-street thread where a few are present) as the cost of entry into the platform is within reach of many more than it was in recent past. It's going to be interesting to see the competition this season with the S550 'stang and E9x M3 (and also E46 M3). The E9x M3 is lighter, narrower, shorter and faster than the Mustang (realize the S550 2015 Mustang is just a bit longer than my E39 M5).

As to amount of tire up front, there is no difference between the F8x and E9x in that regard. The ZCP has the same width wheels, and those are the limiting factor on street tire widths; although Richbot ran in E90 M3 in A-stock a couple of years back using 295/30 and 315/30 Hoosier A6s, and had no clearance issues. There is however a hindrance with the F8x in that you can't even get that little bit of extra negative camber up front by removing the pins and sliding the strut towers as on the E9x. That part is sad since it sure would have been nice for BMW to finally catch up with Detroit in that regard (i.e. the Mustang you can adjust to a bit more than -2 degrees camber -- sure would be nice to have).

Cheers,
Chuck
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      12-16-2015, 05:09 PM   #96
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Car and Driver M3 Long Term Test Update

According to their most recent update, the long term testers at Car and Driver are getting "tired" of the M3: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rm-test-review
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      12-16-2015, 05:59 PM   #97
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I read their periodic reviews. Through greater than 30,000 miles, they have not had any mechanical issues which is a good thing given the youthful age of the S55.

The "noises" they are likely tired of are due to the reduced insulation with the F8x to keep weight down. I have 16,000 miles in my M3 and have not had a single problem.

Maybe they should have opted for the DCT if they don't like rowing gears in daily traffic. I can see where that may be tedious at times.

It's not a perfect car...but holy cow, it checks a lot of boxes as an all round performer. Plus, the wife would not let me acquire the car if I couldn't place two booster seats for the kiddies in the back.

Here's to many more uneventful miles in my F80...
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      12-16-2015, 06:18 PM   #98
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10,500 miles on mine, I find the ride the best of the 3 BMW's I've owned(in comfort at least). Cold start up doesn't bother me as the N54 I had sounded similar on cold startup.

Thankfully I have had nothing wrong or any of the weird stuff they have listed, and of course did not tick the CCB option.
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      12-16-2015, 06:35 PM   #99
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Interesting how they went from this in the second update:

... the M3 continues to impress as a comfortable high-speed highway cruiser. Yes, the ride is a bit stiff, even with the suspension in Comfort mode, but we imagine this would be less of an issue if Michiganís worthless state legislature would come up with a plan to fix our terrible roads...

To this in the third:

...It also means suffering a loud, bone-jarring ride that cannot be ameliorated, even by switching the adjustable suspension into Comfort mode...
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      12-16-2015, 07:35 PM   #100
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I just don't get the comments about "bone jarring", etc. regarding the suspension. In comfort mode, it is as comfortable as any other performance car I have driven and never bothers me or my passengers.
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      12-16-2015, 07:39 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
Interesting how they went from this in the second update:

... the M3 continues to impress as a comfortable high-speed highway cruiser. Yes, the ride is a bit stiff, even with the suspension in Comfort mode, but we imagine this would be less of an issue if Michiganís worthless state legislature would come up with a plan to fix our terrible roads...

To this in the third:

...It also means suffering a loud, bone-jarring ride that cannot be ameliorated, even by switching the adjustable suspension into Comfort mode...
I agree, they contradict themselves there...poor review if I've ever seen one.
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      12-16-2015, 08:00 PM   #102
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Not as bad as this....

http://m.caranddriver.com/reviews/20...e-three-page-2
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      12-16-2015, 08:22 PM   #103
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i left a comment, they need to hear from real users. trolls from the internet are attacking with glee.
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      12-16-2015, 09:03 PM   #104
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Quote:
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I agree, they contradict themselves there...poor review if I've ever seen one.
Well, not really. A car's ride degrades over time with shock, bushing, and tire wear. I live on the other side of town from their offices. The roads on my side of town are quite a bit better, and probably better represent the "average" fair to good roads that most of you drive on. As such, I'm happy with my M3's ride. When I venture over to their side of town, there are some roads where the M3 can be pretty brutal.
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      12-16-2015, 09:12 PM   #105
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If the suspension were softer I suppose they'd complain about body roll. I never cared for soft suspension as a driver. As a passenger it's cool.

When I was a die-hard motorcycle ONLY kid, I used to make fun of "box jockeys" (car drivers) because they lean the wrong way into a turn.

Horses for courses
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      12-16-2015, 10:01 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigilant View Post
I read their periodic reviews. Through greater than 30,000 miles, they have not had any mechanical issues which is a good thing given the youthful age of the S55.

The "noises" they are likely tired of are due to the reduced insulation with the F8x to keep weight down. I have 16,000 miles in my M3 and have not had a single problem.

Maybe they should have opted for the DCT if they don't like rowing gears in daily traffic. I can see where that may be tedious at times.

It's not a perfect car...but holy cow, it checks a lot of boxes as an all round performer. Plus, the wife would not let me acquire the car if I couldn't place two booster seats for the kiddies in the back.

Here's to many more uneventful miles in my F80...

30,000mi and no Crank Hub issue!!!!!
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      12-16-2015, 10:02 PM   #107
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The problem with the suspension is it's rather stiff, but without stellar damping. I don't mind paying the "stiff" penalty if it's for performance, but the adaptive doesn't quite deliver there.

The damping is good, but not great.


Go drive a performance car with the magnetic suspension and see how much better they could do on the M.
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      12-16-2015, 10:18 PM   #108
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Car&Driver article says 2015 BMW M3 MT is not a good Daily Driver. Any comments?

The referred article can be found here: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rm-test-review.

I have driven a 3 series as a daily driver since 2004. I am in my third one now (325i -> 330i Sport -> 335i M), and I am considering upgrading to an M3 in 2016. Based of the reviews I have read so far, this M3 generation seems to be the best so far. So, I am very excited. However, this article caught me surprise and kind of put a funk in my mood.

You have to take everything with a grain of salt, but they have very harsh comments.

I have seen videos demonstrating how loud the car is when starting from cold. Is it really that obnoxious that would drive you to hate the car?

I assume the suspension is stiffer given than it is more of a sports car. However, is the ride really that much harsher than the 3 Series?

The article also mentions a lot of annoying noises with the car that they have taken it to the dealer several times to rectify, and still are not satisfied.

They make it sound like the M3 is an overpriced piece of junk. Even the comments at the bottom of the article seem to agree.

What are people experiences of the M3 as a daily driver compared to the 3 series?

Thanks!
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      12-16-2015, 10:47 PM   #109
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Super fast, super fun. Pulls like a freight train.
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      12-16-2015, 10:52 PM   #110
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It is my daily driver. Nice to be able to transform the car at the push of a button or buttons.

Sometimes the ride can be tough for a daily but I got the adjustable system so that helps a little. No regrets at all.

I have an occasional rattle but nothing major.
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