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      02-18-2015, 10:21 AM   #1
Jim Gianatsis / QWK M4
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Thumbs up Tire Size Increases on Stock Wheels

Hi Guys, I wanted to give you some feedback on increasing the tire sizes on the M3/4's OEM stock M3/4 9x19 Front, and 10x19 Rear Wheels.

The stock Michelin Pilot Sports at 255F / 275R are too narrow for a car with this much power and braking force, especially with the optional Brembo Carbon Composite Brakes.

I had wanted to go to wider rims to match changing to wider tires. But wider rims also add more unsprung weight which cancels any perceived handling gain. Changing to expensive forged wheels would be lighter, but no one is making forged wheels in 0.5" wider than stock sizes. All the Forged applications for M3/4s are 10x19 front, and 11x19 rear, and to be honest this setup looks stupid on the car (especially with stock or just 1-size wider tires, and it still adds back more rotating and unsprung weight. So I'm just sticking with the stock M wheels for now and not wasting $4,000 for 1' wider forged wheels that end up not being much lighter, and don't really improve handling (especially with stock width size tires).

So, I moved the stock rear 275s to the Front 9x19 stock wheels, and added new 295/30s to the stock 10x19 Rear Wheels. This is an approved fitment from Michelin for these wider tires on the stock width wheels. I actually found the 295/30x19s at my local America's tire Store for just $275 ea, far less than mail order from Tire Rack (which didn't even offer the 295/30x19 size). And America's did all the tire switching and balancing very affordably.

My M4 now looks, handles and sticks so much better with this small and affordable (2) tire change.

Se the photos of the tire change on my M4 here - https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=9369dfd153
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      02-18-2015, 01:20 PM   #2
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How is the handling? Is the steering heavier and less precise? Any downsides to the change? I am seriously considering going this route to get more meat in the back.
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      02-19-2015, 08:22 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Gianatsis / QWK M4
Hi Guys, I wanted to give you some feedback on increasing the tire sizes on the M3/4's OEM stock M3/4 9x19 Front, and 10x19 Rear Wheels.

The stock Michelin Pilot Sports at 255F / 275R are too narrow for a car with this much power and braking force, especially with the optional Brembo Carbon Composite Brakes.

I had wanted to go to wider rims to match changing to wider tires. But wider rims also add more unsprung weight which cancels any perceived handling gain. Changing to expensive forged wheels would be lighter, but no one is making forged wheels in 0.5" wider than stock sizes. All the Forged applications for M3/4s are 10x19 front, and 11x19 rear, and to be honest this setup looks stupid on the car (especially with stock or just 1-size wider tires, and it still adds back more rotating and unsprung weight. So I'm just sticking with the stock M wheels for now and not wasting $4,000 for 1' wider forged wheels that end up not being much lighter, and don't really improve handling (especially with stock width size tires).

So, I moved the stock rear 275s to the Front 9x19 stock wheels, and added new 295/30s to the stock 10x19 Rear Wheels. This is an approved fitment from Michelin for these wider tires on the stock width wheels. I actually found the 295/30x19s at my local America's tire Store for just $275 ea, far less than mail order from Tire Rack (which didn't even offer the 295/30x19 size). And America's did all the tire switching and balancing very affordably.

My M4 now looks, handles and sticks so much better with this small and affordable (2) tire change.

Se the photos of the tire change on my M4 here - https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=9369dfd153
I'm curious about this as well. Is the increased grip noticeable under acceleration? Does it reduce the tendency to break loose?
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      02-19-2015, 08:46 PM   #4
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The front sidewall and overall diameter is now 15mm bigger than the rears. It is it noticeable?
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      02-19-2015, 09:09 PM   #5
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Just a couple of comments...

There are flow formed wheels (Vorsteiner VFF-03 just as an example) that are not that expensive, are available in 9.5 and 10.5 width and are lighter than OEM 19" wheels. They would allow you to run a wider tire without more unsprung mass and also maintain a better responsiveness by better supporting the sidewall of a wider tire. They also have an offset that increases track width which is also helpful in handling (although I would suggest minimally). Whenever you put a wide tire on a narrow wheel, the sidewall will flex more and you lose some level of responsiveness and sharpness. Also, keep in mind that contact patch is influenced by wheel width and not just tire width. Regardless, the extra performance does come with a $$ cost... although with some wheels now available it isn't huge.
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Last edited by gthal; 02-19-2015 at 09:35 PM..
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      02-20-2015, 01:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Gianatsis / QWK M4 View Post
Changing to expensive forged wheels would be lighter, but no one is making forged wheels in 0.5" wider than stock sizes.
Just ask HRE, ADV1, MORR, PUR (in other words ANY custom wheel manufacturer) and they make it the width you want. Zero problem getting a 9.5" and 10.5" wheel.
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      02-20-2015, 01:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
They also have an offset that increases track width which is also helpful in handling (although I would suggest minimally).
Well, you can't just say that slapping a set of spacers on a car improves the handling. Might be true in some cases but the suspension (suspension travel, angles and so on) on the car is fine tuned for the exact track width the car has from the factory so with spacers (or other offset wheels) you might screw that up totally or you might get lucky and find a better balance.

The most likely outcome - who knows without proper testing?
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      02-20-2015, 05:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Gianatsis / QWK M4 View Post
Hi Guys, I wanted to give you some feedback on increasing the tire sizes on the M3/4's OEM stock M3/4 9x19 Front, and 10x19 Rear Wheels.

The stock Michelin Pilot Sports at 255F / 275R are too narrow for a car with this much power and braking force, especially with the optional Brembo Carbon Composite Brakes.

I had wanted to go to wider rims to match changing to wider tires. But wider rims also add more unsprung weight which cancels any perceived handling gain. Changing to expensive forged wheels would be lighter, but no one is making forged wheels in 0.5" wider than stock sizes. All the Forged applications for M3/4s are 10x19 front, and 11x19 rear, and to be honest this setup looks stupid on the car (especially with stock or just 1-size wider tires, and it still adds back more rotating and unsprung weight. So I'm just sticking with the stock M wheels for now and not wasting $4,000 for 1' wider forged wheels that end up not being much lighter, and don't really improve handling (especially with stock width size tires).

So, I moved the stock rear 275s to the Front 9x19 stock wheels, and added new 295/30s to the stock 10x19 Rear Wheels. This is an approved fitment from Michelin for these wider tires on the stock width wheels. I actually found the 295/30x19s at my local America's tire Store for just $275 ea, far less than mail order from Tire Rack (which didn't even offer the 295/30x19 size). And America's did all the tire switching and balancing very affordably.

My M4 now looks, handles and sticks so much better with this small and affordable (2) tire change.

Se the photos of the tire change on my M4 here - https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=9369dfd153
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      02-20-2015, 06:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossifumi View Post
Well, you can't just say that slapping a set of spacers on a car improves the handling. Might be true in some cases but the suspension (suspension travel, angles and so on) on the car is fine tuned for the exact track width the car has from the factory so with spacers (or other offset wheels) you might screw that up totally or you might get lucky and find a better balance.

The most likely outcome - who knows without proper testing?
Noted and agreed... I probably wasn't explaining my view on it clearly but that was why I added with probable "minimal benefit"
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      02-20-2015, 08:46 AM   #10
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I would say my biggest concern with the setup you propose is the significant change in front to rear stagger. Your front tires now have a bigger diameter than the rears. This will have a negative impact on the DSC/MDM/ABS calibration. You will see DSC/MDM interfere much more often because it will constantly perceive that the rear wheels are spinning too fast relative to the front.

Did you consider 295/35R19 for the rear instead? That would have maintained the front to rear stagger ratio close to stock. Further, the 295/35R19 PSS is specifically designed to run on a 19"x10" wheel for the F10 M5 application.

Did you have a look at this thread regarding tire width options?

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1089535
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      02-20-2015, 07:43 PM   #11
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Smart move. Relatively cheap and I'm sure the difference is noticeable. I think you are a genius!
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      02-20-2015, 09:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathangracey View Post
Smart move. Relatively cheap and I'm sure the difference is noticeable. I think you are a genius!
I think what this guy has done is a smarter move (read my post above yours)
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      02-20-2015, 11:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I think what this guy has done is a smarter move (read my post above yours)

Agreed. Even better.

What I meant was:
Smart move to run the rear tires up front.


We only have to buy 2 tires instead of four to get the grip this car needs.
Learning a lot here. Thanks everyone...
for the good ideas
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