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      01-04-2020, 02:43 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSXiMUS View Post
That might be true with the older low-torque high-revving naturally-aspirated M3s, which feels more engaging wringing out with a manual but the F8x is a completely different beast in that it feels MUCH better suited with the DCT.

While the S55 is a magnificent piece of engineering, driving it with a 6MT introduces the same "rubberband" feel that's associated with a lot of turbo cars, although to a much lesser degree. The DCT equipped car hides that trait pretty much completely and it feels naturally aspirated, I don't know if it's the DCT gearing or the instant shifts but it feels way more responsive and aggressive.
i'd say its the opposite.

the e92 needed the DCT to keep it in the narrow powerband. Much easier to shuffle between gears and be at the right rpm with a dct.

the f80 has such a large broad powerband that you really don't need to push it all the way to redline or downshift to scoot around traffic or slide the back end around.

and yes dct in the f80 will mask the lag between shifts. you can keep the throttle at one position and shift up without needing to spool the turbo up again.

but there is still alot of lag in these cars. they dont feel NA at all. not that thats a bad thing.
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      01-04-2020, 03:15 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
i'd say its the opposite.

the e92 needed the DCT to keep it in the narrow powerband. Much easier to shuffle between gears and be at the right rpm with a dct.

the f80 has such a large broad powerband that you really don't need to push it all the way to redline or downshift to scoot around traffic or slide the back end around.

and yes dct in the f80 will mask the lag between shifts. you can keep the throttle at one position and shift up without needing to spool the turbo up again.

but there is still alot of lag in these cars. they dont feel NA at all. not that thats a bad thing.
I think you're missing the point of my response, I'm trying to convey that the reason past manual M3's were highly sought after was due to their high revving nature. Wringing out a naturally aspirated motor to 8k and hearing it sing while manually choosing your own gears is a much more visceral/fun experience compared to the F8x with the 6MT. The 6MT experience in the F8x is a rather dull one, in my opinion, there really isn't any drama or excitement to be had which to me is the main selling point of rowing your own gears. I still stand by my opinion that the F8x with it's turbocharged 6 is best suited with a DCT just like the GT-R.

As far as the S55 not feeling naturally aspirated, out of all the turbo cars I've driven, yes GTR included, the W205 C63 S and the F8x DCT are the two closest to feeling naturally aspirated to me. Sure they'll never have the "instant" response when you jab the throttle but they sure come real close. Driving the 6MT F8x definitely feels more like a turbo car to me. Chris Harris also commented once the F80 M3 DCT feels naturally aspirated and he's driven pretty much every high-performance car, N/A or Forced Fed so take that for what it's worth.

I also don't find the S65 in my E92 to have a narrow powerband, sure it doesn't really get moving till past 4k but you could short shift it and still land in a pretty meaty part of the power curve. A narrow powerband to me would be an S2000, or any Honda B series motor or Toyota 2ZZ where once you don't time your shift perfectly at redline you'll fall out of the high lift lobe and it feels like an eternity to pick up again.
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      01-04-2020, 06:43 AM   #47
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      01-04-2020, 10:45 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSXiMUS View Post
I think you're missing the point of my response, I'm trying to convey that the reason past manual M3's were highly sought after was due to their high revving nature. Wringing out a naturally aspirated motor to 8k and hearing it sing while manually choosing your own gears is a much more visceral/fun experience compared to the F8x with the 6MT. The 6MT experience in the F8x is a rather dull one, in my opinion, there really isn't any drama or excitement to be had which to me is the main selling point of rowing your own gears. I still stand by my opinion that the F8x with it's turbocharged 6 is best suited with a DCT just like the GT-R.

As far as the S55 not feeling naturally aspirated, out of all the turbo cars I've driven, yes GTR included, the W205 C63 S and the F8x DCT are the two closest to feeling naturally aspirated to me. Sure they'll never have the "instant" response when you jab the throttle but they sure come real close. Driving the 6MT F8x definitely feels more like a turbo car to me. Chris Harris also commented once the F80 M3 DCT feels naturally aspirated and he's driven pretty much every high-performance car, N/A or Forced Fed so take that for what it's worth.

I also don't find the S65 in my E92 to have a narrow powerband, sure it doesn't really get moving till past 4k but you could short shift it and still land in a pretty meaty part of the power curve. A narrow powerband to me would be an S2000, or any Honda B series motor or Toyota 2ZZ where once you don't time your shift perfectly at redline you'll fall out of the high lift lobe and it feels like an eternity to pick up again.
Agree with this. With the responsiveness and torque of the M4 it feels more like an American V8 to me.
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      01-04-2020, 10:56 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f80er View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
M4s are tanking while M3s are holding strong. Simple as that.

There are loads of M4s available (and soft demand) and so auction prices are super low which is what sets the trade in values.
Loads of m3s as well but their prices tend to be higher as you said.

Some so high I can't imagine anyone is going to pay that much. IE anything over $60K is crazy to me because they could have been had for a $5k give or take more when new.

Speaking of which can anyone tell me what the deal is with these seats? https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...8000/overview/
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M4s are tanking while M3s are holding strong. Simple as that.

There are loads of M4s available (and soft demand) and so auction prices are super low which is what sets the trade in values.
Loads of m3s as well but their prices tend to be higher as you said.

Some so high I can't imagine anyone is going to pay that much. IE anything over $60K is crazy to me because they could have been had for a $5k give or take more when new.

Speaking of which can anyone tell me what the deal is with these seats? https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...8000/overview/
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      01-04-2020, 11:07 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSXiMUS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
While that's somewhat true, the problem (or advantage) is that there are so few manual M3/M4s that they seem to be quickly snapped up whenever available by the relatively small group of discerning manual transmission buyers out in the market.

I spoke with a salesperson at carmax who said he has a list of buyers to contact when any manual M3 or M4 comes in and they sell really quickly. I sold my manual transmission 335is and 535i to carmax and got really great prices on both.
That might be true with the older low-torque high-revving naturally-aspirated M3s, which feels more engaging wringing out with a manual but the F8x is a completely different beast in that it feels MUCH better suited with the DCT.

While the S55 is a magnificent piece of engineering, driving it with a 6MT introduces the same "rubberband" feel that's associated with a lot of turbo cars, although to a much lesser degree. The DCT equipped car hides that trait pretty much completely and it feels naturally aspirated, I don't know if it's the DCT gearing or the instant shifts but it feels way more responsive and aggressive.

Sure there will always be the die-hard manual shopper who wants to buy a car strictly for the "fun" factor, not necessarily seeking max performance. From what I've seen, the vast majority of shoppers looking at the F8x are a different type, they know the performance these cars are capable of and that's what they want first and foremost. Every customer I have dealt with inquiring about the F8x wanted a DCT btw... Source: I'm a Senior Consultant for CarMax.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSXiMUS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
While that's somewhat true, the problem (or advantage) is that there are so few manual M3/M4s that they seem to be quickly snapped up whenever available by the relatively small group of discerning manual transmission buyers out in the market.

I spoke with a salesperson at carmax who said he has a list of buyers to contact when any manual M3 or M4 comes in and they sell really quickly. I sold my manual transmission 335is and 535i to carmax and got really great prices on both.
That might be true with the older low-torque high-revving naturally-aspirated M3s, which feels more engaging wringing out with a manual but the F8x is a completely different beast in that it feels MUCH better suited with the DCT.

While the S55 is a magnificent piece of engineering, driving it with a 6MT introduces the same "rubberband" feel that's associated with a lot of turbo cars, although to a much lesser degree. The DCT equipped car hides that trait pretty much completely and it feels naturally aspirated, I don't know if it's the DCT gearing or the instant shifts but it feels way more responsive and aggressive.

Sure there will always be the die-hard manual shopper who wants to buy a car strictly for the "fun" factor, not necessarily seeking max performance. From what I've seen, the vast majority of shoppers looking at the F8x are a different type, they know the performance these cars are capable of and that's what they want first and foremost. Every customer I have dealt with inquiring about the F8x wanted a DCT btw... Source: I'm a Senior Consultant for CarMax.
No one asks for an Automatic M3.

You ask for a 6 speed Manual.

I agree with performance aspect of DCT.
I test drove One.

Anyone age of 10 years of age who can see over the dash and reach the pedals with 3 minutes of driving instruction can drive auto M3 in minutes.

Wait if they can reach the pedals

Wait if they can start the car they can drive it with DCT
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      01-04-2020, 11:24 AM   #51
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Owning a 2015 M4 right now, I'm basically in the best spot I've ever been with a car.

1. It's paid off. Car payments and debt should be avoided at all cost.
2. It's no longer an expensive car (relatively speaking). I could sell it for $36-38k.
3. Being an inexpensive car, I no longer obsess over minor scratches or blemishes.
4. I have an extended warranty through 2023 on it.
5. Still low miles, only 38k on it.
6. Perfect condition inside/outside, it's still one of the best looking cars on the road. Even here in Miami, the land of exotics, my car gets tons of attention. People love it, I even had a Superfast owner honk and give me a thumbs up the other day.
7. Performance, quality, comfort, everything is still top tier for me. I want for nothing.
8. Nothing is available for less than five times the amount I'd even consider trading for. A Porsche GT car, or I keep the M4. It's that simple for me.
9. The new 3/4 series are looking horrid in my opinion, I feel no need to "upgrade".
10. It's a 6MT.

I love my car. I don't think I've ever been so satisfied along with no wandering eyes towards anything newer and more expensive.
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      01-05-2020, 07:46 AM   #52
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No one asks for an Automatic M3. Bias much? In fact less than 25% ask for manual and each iteration of the M3 has seen less and less manuals. Just because a 10 year old can drive a dct proves nothing. Are you suggesting F1 racings is for 10 year olds because they use dcts?

I own two manual cars (65 Corvair Corsa; 07 911) and they are great, but the dct is also great (and I use it in manual mode 99% of the time).
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      01-05-2020, 09:56 AM   #53
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The DCT offers supercar level shift speeds and has rock solid reliability. There is no shame in owning one. Both transmission options are great.
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      01-05-2020, 02:34 PM   #54
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Mark my words, these cars will stabilize and be worth decent money down the road. The fact is, this is a really well built car with very few issues, where you can still get a DCT and/or true manual - in a real 4 or 5 seat config.

I just don't think we are going to see the issues the e90 cars have had and thus my comments. Just like what's his name's video said
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      01-05-2020, 03:47 PM   #55
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Mark my words, these cars will stabilize and be worth decent money down the road. The fact is, this is a really well built car with very few issues, where you can still get a DCT and/or true manual - in a real 4 or 5 seat config.

I just don't think we are going to see the issues the e90 cars have had and thus my comments. Just like what's his name's video said
In addition to reliability, I believe the classic look of the F80 platform will be revered similar to the e46.
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      01-05-2020, 10:27 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Owning a 2015 M4 right now, I'm basically in the best spot I've ever been with a car.

1. It's paid off. Car payments and debt should be avoided at all cost.
2. It's no longer an expensive car (relatively speaking). I could sell it for $36-38k.
3. Being an inexpensive car, I no longer obsess over minor scratches or blemishes.
4. I have an extended warranty through 2023 on it.
5. Still low miles, only 38k on it.
6. Perfect condition inside/outside, it's still one of the best looking cars on the road. Even here in Miami, the land of exotics, my car gets tons of attention. People love it, I even had a Superfast owner honk and give me a thumbs up the other day.
7. Performance, quality, comfort, everything is still top tier for me. I want for nothing.
8. Nothing is available for less than five times the amount I'd even consider trading for. A Porsche GT car, or I keep the M4. It's that simple for me.
9. The new 3/4 series are looking horrid in my opinion, I feel no need to "upgrade".
10. It's a 6MT.

I love my car. I don't think I've ever been so satisfied along with no wandering eyes towards anything newer and more expensive.

+1, couldn't agree more on everything stated. Super stoked I have a 6spd manual. For me, A classic BMW will always need a manual transition. Obviously the DCT is amazing too, can't argue the facts. But too much fun in the 6spd to pass it up.
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      01-05-2020, 10:58 PM   #57
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ahh here we go again. manual vs dct its been awhile
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      01-06-2020, 04:40 AM   #58
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ahh here we go again. manual vs dct its been awhile
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      01-06-2020, 09:37 PM   #59
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Let's see whose is bigger lol
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      01-07-2020, 06:23 AM   #60
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Dct is bigger 7>6...... :0
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      01-07-2020, 08:59 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by mjposner View Post
No one asks for an Automatic M3. Bias much? In fact less than 25% ask for manual and each iteration of the M3 has seen less and less manuals. Just because a 10 year old can drive a dct proves nothing. Are you suggesting F1 racings is for 10 year olds because they use dcts?

I own two manual cars (65 Corvair Corsa; 07 911) and they are great, but the dct is also great (and I use it in manual mode 99% of the time).
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjposner View Post
No one asks for an Automatic M3. Bias much? In fact less than 25% ask for manual and each iteration of the M3 has seen less and less manuals. Just because a 10 year old can drive a dct proves nothing. Are you suggesting F1 racings is for 10 year olds because they use dcts?

I own two manual cars (65 Corvair Corsa; 07 911) and they are great, but the dct is also great (and I use it in manual mode 99% of the time).
My apologies....

(FYI: I worked part time for Carmax about 9 years ago. Fantastic experience great business model. I did very well! You have one of the best positions there; congratulations)

I mixed in some sarcasm in my original post

I was trying to say the general public typically drives automatics; enthusiasts or not.

Since a vast majority of the F80's are automatic and carbon roofs.

The request would be for the rare 6 speed more often than not; along with a sunroof.

I test drove a DCT it was cool. I just felt like I was pretending to be a racer. It was genuinely foreign to me.

I've never owned an automatic car ever.

If I went with a 5 series I'd get the automatic. In that segment I'd get the ES 350.

I'm either all in M3 or totally numb Lexus!
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      01-07-2020, 09:35 AM   #62
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- Manual is more fun. more control. can't do a brake stand with DCT.
- DCT is easier to live with and faster
- Manual will hold value better than DCT.
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      01-07-2020, 10:32 AM   #63
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Great info in this thread, it's pretty informal for someone that has been shopping around.

The CFRP roof is standard on the F82 correct?

I'm currently trying to figure what the best possible package/options I'll be able to find within my budget. I intend to spend $35k cash.
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      01-07-2020, 10:37 AM   #64
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Great info in this thread, it's pretty informal for someone that has been shopping around.

The CFRP roof is standard on the F82 correct?

I'm currently trying to figure what the best possible package/options I'll be able to find within my budget. I intend to spend $35k cash.
yeah cf roof or not are both standard no cost opitions.
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      01-07-2020, 11:36 AM   #65
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Think I'll be keeping my 15', but trade-ins aren't bad my dealer offered $45k around 6 months ago when my warranty was up.

But like everyone else said these things aren't investments. Although Porsche seems to always hold their value pretty well and is one of the many reasons I've been eyeing a 991.2 Turbo S next…
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      01-07-2020, 11:59 AM   #66
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Looking at used prices for M3s is still boggling to me. Because when I look to trade mine the offers are shit compared to what dealers and some private parties are asking for. I know trade-in is always less than ideal but never before I have seen such a widespread between the two on a car that I owned.
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