My Experience with ASR Kratos Turbos

[RodF82]

My experience with Global Motoring Group ASR Kratos Turbos



I was in search of more power and the two options that I decided on were Pure and Kratos. Both fit my needs. I went with Kratos because most people have Pure and after reading what Kratos put out on the forms their product seemed very promising. Plus, I was able to keep my cores.


I submitted payment to pre-order the KRAS55EVO on 23 June 2021 after being told it will take 2-3 weeks for completion. That would have been 14 Jul at the latest to complete. The turbos were shipped 03 SEP 2021. That is 7 Weeks behind schedule!!! Kratos said that they are behind due to COVID which delayed shipments of raw materials. Delays are understandable, but 7 weeks is unsatisfactory.


Installation and tune were completed 17 Nov by a reputable shop and tuner.


Jan 6 2022 I was on the highway cruising and noticed a loss of power and white smoke coming out of the exhaust. I parked the car and a few days later I towed it to the shop and they deemed it to be the rear turbo.


I reached out to Kratos and sent the picture. Their response: “Typically, exhaust turbine blades can break off due to a melted spark plug electrode exiting the cylinder head as there’s noting the turbine wheel can interfere with on the inducer side.”


From this info I had the shop check my spark plugs and perform a leak down test and everything checked out fine. From there I shipped the turbos to Kratos for inspection.

The turbos were delivered to Kratos on 4-Feb with the inspection concluding on 15-Feb.

“Our Service Department was able to do a full inspection and teardown. They concluded that your rear turbo turbine wheel failure did not occur as a result of a manufacturing defect. They asked if you had any recent logs that our Engineering Department could review so they could possibly help you determine what caused the failure. They stated that you will need a new bearing housing along with a new compressor and turbine wheel. They also stated that they will be able to re-machine the housings and clean them up since no material was missing from them. The good news is that your front turbos are in good shape and they will just be doing a refresh for you on those.”


I was also told that it takes between 7-10 business days for rebuild time.


I sent them two logs from when the car was being tuned since those were the only WOT logs I have.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6195...729b67b25b0091

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6195...90c62ca2666fb8


“the cause of your turbo failure, as our Service Department stated previously, your turbine failed as a result of poor tuning based on both the logs you provided as well as the physical evidence of failure our Service Department was able to see on the turbos. The logs showed 2 major issues with your tune. The first and major issue they noticed was the knock and/or timing correction occurring through out the tune that was upwards of 7 degrees at some points which can cause engine and/or turbo damage as a result of extreme egt's. The second thing they noticed was your boost target of 36psi that is never recommended on any stock S55 engine which any reputable should know. In addition, the inducer area where the turbine wheel had missing/damaged blades was inside the empty cavity area of the turbine housing. Therefore, it would be impossible for the inducer side of the turbine wheel to make contact with anything inside the turbine housing casting that could cause this type of damage or failure. You are more than welcome to provide the same logs to any other reputable tuner for S55's and we're quite certain they will point out the same exact flaws with your tune. Based on the information our Service Department provided, this was the cause of your premature failure and not due to a manufacturing defect which is why it was not covered under warranty.”


After multiple completion date changes, the turbos were finally shipped on 5-APR 2022. The turbos were at KRATOS for 2 months!!! This is my daily driver and I understand that modded cars may be down for some time but I was not expecting this long of a time to rebuild turbos especially after they said normal rebuild times are 7-10 days.



Kratos charged a total of 2760.24.

1900.00 for complete cartridge replacement of rear turbo.

750.00 front turbo rebuild.

110.24 for shipping



All their payments are through wire transfer or Venmo. No protection for the buyer.



I was charged 750 for a turbo “rebuild/refresh” on the front turbo which did not have any damage. after that said earlier "The good news is that your front turbos are in good shape and they will just be doing a refresh for you on those.”
This should have been complimentary or at least covered under warranty. So, I asked for a refund of that charge but was told they will not refund it due to me agreeing to the charges by paying. If nothing was wrong with the front turbo to begin with, then why rebuild it? I was charged with a rebuild when they initially said “refresh”. Rebuild and refresh are two different things.



All communication was through email which is not bad. But they never answered the phone when I called. I spoke with them once when they called to tell me why the tune caused the turbos to fail and recommended a tune by someone else.

I cannot see the EGTs in the logs to verify if the EGT was the cause of the failure. So how can they rule that to be the cause and nothing else?


I'm running full E85 which has much lower EGTs than gasoline.

My burbles were very conservative and I didn't use anti-lag. If this were EGT related, my exhaust valves would have also have been damaged.



Looking at Kratos Turbo failure on other posts Kratos has yet to take accountability for their turbo's failing. From their website “KRATOS ceramic ball bearing cartridges have been engineered to withstand extreme forms of abuse. KRATOS bearing housings have been endurance race tested and have proven themselves to be reliable in the most extreme conditions”.


“Extreme forms of abuse”: would mean being able to withstand high EGT’s if it was actually the case. The rear turbo is the only thing that is damaged on my car.

“proven themselves to be reliable in the most extreme conditions”: I did not have the turbos on more than 1000 miles on a daily driver.




If you are looking to upgrade your turbos, I recommend using any other company.

The power gains are the same as pure turbos.

The turbo lag is very noticeable.

And poor customer service/satisfaction.

[M2_MEDUSA]

Originally Posted by RodF82

My experience with Global Motoring Group ASR Kratos Turbos



I was in search of more power and the two options that I decided on were Pure and Kratos. Both fit my needs. I went with Kratos because most people have Pure and after reading what Kratos put out on the forms their product seemed very promising. Plus, I was able to keep my cores.


I submitted payment to pre-order the KRAS55EVO on 23 June 2021 after being told it will take 2-3 weeks for completion. That would have been 14 Jul at the latest to complete. The turbos were shipped 03 SEP 2021. That is 7 Weeks behind schedule!!! Kratos said that they are behind due to COVID which delayed shipments of raw materials. Delays are understandable, but 7 weeks is unsatisfactory.


Installation and tune were completed 17 Nov by a reputable shop and tuner.


Jan 6 2022 I was on the highway cruising and noticed a loss of power and white smoke coming out of the exhaust. I parked the car and a few days later I towed it to the shop and they deemed it to be the rear turbo.


I reached out to Kratos and sent the picture. Their response: “Typically, exhaust turbine blades can break off due to a melted spark plug electrode exiting the cylinder head as there’s noting the turbine wheel can interfere with on the inducer side.”


From this info I had the shop check my spark plugs and perform a leak down test and everything checked out fine. From there I shipped the turbos to Kratos for inspection.

The turbos were delivered to Kratos on 4-Feb with the inspection concluding on 15-Feb.

“Our Service Department was able to do a full inspection and teardown. They concluded that your rear turbo turbine wheel failure did not occur as a result of a manufacturing defect. They asked if you had any recent logs that our Engineering Department could review so they could possibly help you determine what caused the failure. They stated that you will need a new bearing housing along with a new compressor and turbine wheel. They also stated that they will be able to re-machine the housings and clean them up since no material was missing from them. The good news is that your front turbos are in good shape and they will just be doing a refresh for you on those.”


I was also told that it takes between 7-10 business days for rebuild time.


I sent them two logs from when the car was being tuned since those were the only WOT logs I have.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6195...729b67b25b0091

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6195...90c62ca2666fb8


“the cause of your turbo failure, as our Service Department stated previously, your turbine failed as a result of poor tuning based on both the logs you provided as well as the physical evidence of failure our Service Department was able to see on the turbos. The logs showed 2 major issues with your tune. The first and major issue they noticed was the knock and/or timing correction occurring through out the tune that was upwards of 7 degrees at some points which can cause engine and/or turbo damage as a result of extreme egt's. The second thing they noticed was your boost target of 36psi that is never recommended on any stock S55 engine which any reputable should know. In addition, the inducer area where the turbine wheel had missing/damaged blades was inside the empty cavity area of the turbine housing. Therefore, it would be impossible for the inducer side of the turbine wheel to make contact with anything inside the turbine housing casting that could cause this type of damage or failure. You are more than welcome to provide the same logs to any other reputable tuner for S55's and we're quite certain they will point out the same exact flaws with your tune. Based on the information our Service Department provided, this was the cause of your premature failure and not due to a manufacturing defect which is why it was not covered under warranty.”


After multiple completion date changes, the turbos were finally shipped on 5-APR 2022. The turbos were at KRATOS for 2 months!!! This is my daily driver and I understand that modded cars may be down for some time but I was not expecting this long of a time to rebuild turbos especially after they said normal rebuild times are 7-10 days.



Kratos charged a total of 2760.24.

1900.00 for complete cartridge replacement of rear turbo.

750.00 front turbo rebuild.

110.24 for shipping



All their payments are through wire transfer or Venmo. No protection for the buyer.



I was charged 750 for a turbo “rebuild/refresh” on the front turbo which did not have any damage. after that said earlier "The good news is that your front turbos are in good shape and they will just be doing a refresh for you on those.”
This should have been complimentary or at least covered under warranty. So, I asked for a refund of that charge but was told they will not refund it due to me agreeing to the charges by paying. If nothing was wrong with the front turbo to begin with, then why rebuild it? I was charged with a rebuild when they initially said “refresh”. Rebuild and refresh are two different things.



All communication was through email which is not bad. But they never answered the phone when I called. I spoke with them once when they called to tell me why the tune caused the turbos to fail and recommended a tune by someone else.

I cannot see the EGTs in the logs to verify if the EGT was the cause of the failure. So how can they rule that to be the cause and nothing else?


I'm running full E85 which has much lower EGTs than gasoline.

My burbles were very conservative and I didn't use anti-lag. If this were EGT related, my exhaust valves would have also have been damaged.



Looking at Kratos Turbo failure on other posts Kratos has yet to take accountability for their turbo's failing. From their website “KRATOS ceramic ball bearing cartridges have been engineered to withstand extreme forms of abuse. KRATOS bearing housings have been endurance race tested and have proven themselves to be reliable in the most extreme conditions”.


“Extreme forms of abuse”: would mean being able to withstand high EGT’s if it was actually the case. The rear turbo is the only thing that is damaged on my car.

“proven themselves to be reliable in the most extreme conditions”: I did not have the turbos on more than 1000 miles on a daily driver.




If you are looking to upgrade your turbos, I recommend using any other company.

The power gains are the same as pure turbos.

The turbo lag is very noticeable.

And poor customer service/satisfaction.

Thanks for your review on the company, I was looking into them but after reading this I do not want to experience their turbos in the future. Ill just stick with another brand. Many have experienced good. But what it seems like is when things go bad they jump ship.

Whats interesting to me is they sold you "turbos" yet they point to your engine?? Kratos, OP isnt asking about his engine thats none of your concern. His turbos are and yes your turbos are rated for 36psi..

Cars experience timing corrections from time to time. Kratos, You know this and unless your running straight fuel from a pale 24/7 you will experience that.

Your turbos couldnt hold up and they failed. Dont blame OP. From my Vantage point looks like OP got a bad batch of your turbos.

Also seems like OP had to jump through 100 hoops and other spiderwebs just to pay for it. wild

[M3god]

Smh op not even 1000 miles and already failed my question is for turbos that cost so much do they not come with warranty?

[RodF82]

They do come with a warranty. But they said it's not their fault and the turbos failed due to my tune causing high EGT. But how do you prove that just by looking at logs?

[TopJimmy]

Who tuned it? That's a lot of boost.
What kind of controller on your PI?

[RodF82]

Car is tuned by Carry. I'm using Evolution of speed PI with Motiv controller

[M2_MEDUSA]

Originally Posted by RodF82

Car is tuned by Carry. I'm using Evolution of speed PI with Motiv controller

So kratos vs cary. Lets all wait and see how kratos responds to this one lol...

Their turbos pooped under warranty and Kratos doesnt even stand behind their own product. Apparently Carry had no idea what he was doing??

[TopJimmy]

Sorry you're having a bad experience. I have the new EVOs and have no problems (knock on wood). I'm only 27-28PSI right now and no PI yet, but it's coming along with higher PSI.

[FriedPiston]

At 36 psi, I'd be thankful that only the rear turbo failed during the process. I sold my Kratos to someone who's keeping the boost pressure around 27 psi on a stock engine, and he's never had a single hiccup with them.

Consider dialing down your expectations from turnaround time to how much boost you think your engine can handle. 7 weeks is nowhere near unsatisfactory in today's market, and 36 psi is built engine category.

Really sorry to hear about your experience with them. I suggest doing more extensive research beyond social media and marketing fluff with your future setup.

[RodF82]

Your build was one of the reasons I went with Kratos! I'm glad you're having much success.

I also looked at the build that had 1000 hp/995 hp daily driven by rnguyennn. He also had failed turbos which Kratos said was due to the oil he was using.

[RodF82]

Originally Posted by SpecialEdition_F87

So kratos vs cary. Lets all wait and see how kratos responds to this one lol...

Their turbos pooped under warranty and Kratos doesnt even stand behind their own product. Apparently Carry had no idea what he was doing??

Right? Given the time frame of the turbos being one and circumstances, they could have just replaced them under warranty. I had a previous tune by Carry (E85 Flex Fuel) and it was perfect! It wasn't until I added the turbos that I had issues with the car.

[RodF82]

Originally Posted by FriedPiston

At 36 psi, I'd be thankful that only the rear turbo failed during the process. I sold my Kratos to someone who's keeping the boost pressure around 27 psi on a stock engine, and he's never had a single hiccup with them.

Consider dialing down your expectations from turnaround time to how much boost you think your engine can handle. 7 weeks is nowhere near unsatisfactory in today's market, and 36 psi is built engine category.

Really sorry to hear about your experience with them. I suggest doing more extensive research beyond social media and marketing fluff with your future setup.

I think I'm going to sell them when they arrive. I don't want to deal with this issue again.

[chewbakam4]

Terrible customer experience. Turbos make power but that’s not right at all on many accounts. Nothing to do with Cary, he’s done a ton of this, could have been oil from a failing turbo dropping octane points too

[mike@x-ph.com]

Im sorry about your experience OP, let us know how it goes with the new turbos

[Sales@KRATOS]

When OP's turbos were received for warranty inspection, the first thing our Service Department noticed during tear down was that the turbine inducer of the failed turbo had missing or broken blades which we provide him pictures of. We explained to OP that it would be impossible for this type if failure to occur as a result of a manufacturing defect due the fact that the inducer blade of the turbine sits inside an empty cavity of the turbine housing and would therefore be impossible to make contact with any part of the turbine housing/manifold. In addition, we asked for OP to provide the most recent logs to support our findings as well as try to prevent a situation like this from occurring again. After receiving the logs, right away we noticed major flaws within the logs. The most concerning was the total timing correction hitting as high -7 degrees which is extremely unsafe and should definitely not be occurring. In addition, a target of 36psi on a stock engine with upgraded turbos is also something that we find very alarming. This has nothing to do with any limitation of our turbo systems, as we have several customers producing 1000+whp with our KRAS55EVO's on built engines consistently without fail from different tuners. It has to do with the fact that this level of boost is considered unsafe on a stock engine with turbo upgrades. After discussing this with OP, it was fairly evident that his ability to understand or interpret logs was limited. Therefore, we tried our best to explain to him in great detail how these logs would not be considered as safe. We even took it a step further and asked him to provide these logs to other reputable tuners to confirm if the information we provided to him about his logs could be verified. We implore anyone reading this thread that has a legitimate understanding of forced induction internal combustion engines as well as how to read and interpret logs, to state that these logs are acceptable, safe, and reliable.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6195...729b67b25b0091

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6195...90c62ca2666fb8


After providing OP all the pertinent information to support our findings, he accepted the results and agreed to pay for the Service and move forward with the repair. What he failed to post was that he also asked if we could reach out to Halim@HCP on his behalf to see if Halim could retune his car once he received the turbos back. Why would he do this if he felt so passionate about his tuner and his abilities? We don't disagree that the Service/Repair took longer than originally anticipated, however we always kept in communication with him and provided constant updates.

What OP also failed to post was that after we sent him an email update this past Friday to inform him that his turbos would be shipping this week, he asked us to send him a complete refund for the Service stating that he now disagreed with our findings. When he was told he would not be receiving the full refund demanded, he then emailed us back demanding a refund for rebuild service we performed on the turbo that did not fail and for us to cover it under warranty. What's quite telling is that OP agreed to service for the damaged turbo and install new internal components on the non-damaged turbo at the agreed upon price, then changed his mind after the fact and decided we should provide a full refund. What we also explained to OP is that we make it a point to install new components on any non-damaged turbo if the other turbos comes in for a failure issue. This is common practice to ensure both turbos are serviced with new internals. However, this is not a requirement and OP could have asked us to reassemble the non-damaged turbo without installing new internal components. As a result of his demands not being met, he decided to post partial information online regarding his experience in an attempt to skew forum members views to defame or discredit us.

The simple fact is that turbo systems are a mechanical parts and are in no way, shape, or form indestructible. Severe abuse, overspeed, oil contamination, faulty tunes, broken spark plug electrodes, etc. are all factors that lead to turbo failure. The fact that we advertise our turbos as being able to handle extreme conditions is based on the fact of all other factors we just listed are not part of the equation. Once any of these conditions occurs, the results will be catastrophic to a turbocharger no matter how superior the build quality or bearing technology is.

As OP decided to publicly divulge the name of the tuner, we ask forum members not stoke the fire and try to turn this thread into a KRATOS vs cary jordan battle as we will not be participating in throwing shade against any individual tuner, nor have we ever spoken negatively about cary jordan to OP at any point. We simply made an assessment based on the data provided which OP did not have to accept or agree to. However, posting partial information because OP decided to change his mind and all of a sudden disagree after the Service is completed, does not validate his claim that KRATOS has poor customer service and product quality.

[SnoozieToofs]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

When OP's turbos were received for warranty inspection, the first thing our Service Department noticed during tear down was that the turbine inducer of the failed turbo had missing or broken blades which we provide him pictures of. We explained to OP that it would be impossible for this type if failure to occur as a result of a manufacturing defect due the fact that the inducer blade of the turbine sits inside an empty cavity of the turbine housing and would therefore be impossible to make contact with any part of the turbine housing/manifold. In addition, we asked for OP to provide the most recent logs to support our findings as well as try to prevent a situation like this from occurring again. After receiving the logs, right away we noticed major flaws within the logs. The most concerning was the total timing correction hitting as high -7 degrees which is extremely unsafe and should definitely not be occurring. In addition, a target of 36psi on a stock engine with upgraded turbos is also something that we find very alarming. This has nothing to do with any limitation of our turbo systems, as we have several customers producing 1000+whp with our KRAS55EVO's on built engines consistently without fail from different tuners. It has to do with the fact that this level of boost is considered unsafe on a stock engine with turbo upgrades. After discussing this with OP, it was fairly evident that his ability to understand or interpret logs was limited. Therefore, we tried our best to explain to him in great detail how these logs would not be considered as safe. We even took it a step further and asked him to provide these logs to other reputable tuners to confirm if the information we provided to him about his logs could be verified. We implore anyone reading this thread that has a legitimate understanding of forced induction internal combustion engines as well as how to read and interpret logs, to state that these logs are acceptable, safe, and reliable.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6195...729b67b25b0091

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6195...90c62ca2666fb8


After providing OP all the pertinent information to support our findings, he accepted the results and agreed to pay for the Service and move forward with the repair. What he failed to post was that he also asked if we could reach out to Halim@HCP on his behalf to see if Halim could retune his car once he received the turbos back. Why would he do this if he felt so passionate about his tuner and his abilities? We don't disagree that the Service/Repair took longer than originally anticipated, however we always kept in communication with him and provided constant updates.

What OP also failed to post was that after we sent him an email update this past Friday to inform him that his turbos would be shipping this week, he asked us to send him a complete refund for the Service stating that he now disagreed with our findings. When he was told he would not be receiving the full refund demanded, he then emailed us back demanding a refund for rebuild service we performed on the turbo that did not fail and for us to cover it under warranty. What's quite telling is that OP agreed to service for the damaged turbo and install new internal components on the non-damaged turbo at the agreed upon price, then changed his mind after the fact and decided we should provide a full refund. What we also explained to OP is that we make it a point to install new components on any non-damaged turbo if the other turbos comes in for a failure issue. This is common practice to ensure both turbos are serviced with new internals. However, this is not a requirement and OP could have asked us to reassemble the non-damaged turbo without installing new internal components. As a result of his demands not being met, he decided to post partial information online regarding his experience in an attempt to skew forum members views to defame or discredit us.

The simple fact is that turbo systems are a mechanical parts and are in no way, shape, or form indestructible. Severe abuse, overspeed, oil contamination, faulty tunes, broken spark plug electrodes, etc. are all factors that lead to turbo failure. The fact that we advertise our turbos as being able to handle extreme conditions is based on the fact of all other factors we just listed are not part of the equation. Once any of these conditions occurs, the results will be catastrophic to a turbocharger no matter how superior the build quality or bearing technology is.

As OP decided to publicly divulge the name of the tuner, we ask forum members not stoke the fire and try to turn this thread into a KRATOS vs cary jordan battle as we will not be participating in throwing shade against any individual tuner, nor have we ever spoken negatively about cary jordan to OP at any point. We simply made an assessment based on the data provided which OP did not have to accept or agree to. However, posting partial information because OP decided to change his mind and all of a sudden disagree after the Service is completed, does not validate or constitute his claim that KRATOS has poor customer service and product quality.

Sucks that this situation happened at all. This is the second exhaust turbine failure I’ve read about regarding Kratos turbos. Interestingly enough.. the first was also tuned by CARY and that customer was on a built motor.

Im curious, how is 36PSI different on a stock motor compared to a built motor? Wouldn’t the internal pressures on engine components —therefore stress— remain the same considering the majority of built engines retain OEM bore and stroke specs? So in theory a built application should induce more stress since higher torque is targeted through the DME? A ported or built head couldn’t be the major difference maker here in alleviating this right? I’m sure I’m missing something, but I’m genuinely curious and would appreciate any insight you can provide.

Many thanks

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

When OP's turbos were received for warranty inspection, the first thing our Service Department noticed during tear down was that the turbine inducer of the failed turbo had missing or broken blades which we provide him pictures of. We explained to OP that it would be impossible for this type if failure to occur as a result of a manufacturing defect due the fact that the inducer blade of the turbine sits inside an empty cavity of the turbine housing and would therefore be impossible to make contact with any part of the turbine housing/manifold. In addition, we asked for OP to provide the most recent logs to support our findings as well as try to prevent a situation like this from occurring again. After receiving the logs, right away we noticed major flaws within the logs. The most concerning was the total timing correction hitting as high -7 degrees which is extremely unsafe and should definitely not be occurring. In addition, a target of 36psi on a stock engine with upgraded turbos is also something that we find very alarming. This has nothing to do with any limitation of our turbo systems, as we have several customers producing 1000+whp with our KRAS55EVO's on built engines consistently without fail from different tuners. It has to do with the fact that this level of boost is considered unsafe on a stock engine with turbo upgrades. After discussing this with OP, it was fairly evident that his ability to understand or interpret logs was limited. Therefore, we tried our best to explain to him in great detail how these logs would not be considered as safe. We even took it a step further and asked him to provide these logs to other reputable tuners to confirm if the information we provided to him about his logs could be verified. We implore anyone reading this thread that has a legitimate understanding of forced induction internal combustion engines as well as how to read and interpret logs, to state that these logs are acceptable, safe, and reliable.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6195...729b67b25b0091

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6195...90c62ca2666fb8


After providing OP all the pertinent information to support our findings, he accepted the results and agreed to pay for the Service and move forward with the repair. What he failed to post was that he also asked if we could reach out to Halim@HCP on his behalf to see if Halim could retune his car once he received the turbos back. Why would he do this if he felt so passionate about his tuner and his abilities? We don't disagree that the Service/Repair took longer than originally anticipated, however we always kept in communication with him and provided constant updates.

What OP also failed to post was that after we sent him an email update this past Friday to inform him that his turbos would be shipping this week, he asked us to send him a complete refund for the Service stating that he now disagreed with our findings. When he was told he would not be receiving the full refund demanded, he then emailed us back demanding a refund for rebuild service we performed on the turbo that did not fail and for us to cover it under warranty. What's quite telling is that OP agreed to service for the damaged turbo and install new internal components on the non-damaged turbo at the agreed upon price, then changed his mind after the fact and decided we should provide a full refund. What we also explained to OP is that we make it a point to install new components on any non-damaged turbo if the other turbos comes in for a failure issue. This is common practice to ensure both turbos are serviced with new internals. However, this is not a requirement and OP could have asked us to reassemble the non-damaged turbo without installing new internal components. As a result of his demands not being met, he decided to post partial information online regarding his experience in an attempt to skew forum members views to defame or discredit us.

The simple fact is that turbo systems are a mechanical parts and are in no way, shape, or form indestructible. Severe abuse, overspeed, oil contamination, faulty tunes, broken spark plug electrodes, etc. are all factors that lead to turbo failure. The fact that we advertise our turbos as being able to handle extreme conditions is based on the fact of all other factors we just listed are not part of the equation. Once any of these conditions occurs, the results will be catastrophic to a turbocharger no matter how superior the build quality or bearing technology is.

As OP decided to publicly divulge the name of the tuner, we ask forum members not stoke the fire and try to turn this thread into a KRATOS vs cary jordan battle as we will not be participating in throwing shade against any individual tuner, nor have we ever spoken negatively about cary jordan to OP at any point. We simply made an assessment based on the data provided which OP did not have to accept or agree to. However, posting partial information because OP decided to change his mind and all of a sudden disagree after the Service is completed, does not validate or constitute his claim that KRATOS has poor customer service and product quality.

The links for the datalogs dont work

Originally Posted by SnoozieToofs

Sucks that this situation happened at all. This is the second exhaust turbine failure I’ve read about regarding Kratos turbos. Interestingly enough.. the first was also tuned by CARY and that customer was on a built motor.

Im curious, how is 36PSI different on a stock motor compared to a built motor? Wouldn’t the internal pressures on engine components —therefore stress— remain the same considering the majority of built engines retain OEM bore and stroke specs? So in theory a built application should induce more stress since higher torque is targeted through the DME? A ported or built head couldn’t be the major difference maker here in alleviating this right? I’m sure I’m missing something, but I’m genuinely curious and would appreciate any insight you can provide.

Many thanks

Yes a ported head absolutely makes a large difference in the pressure ratio across the engine.

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by SnoozieToofs

Sucks that this situation happened at all. This is the second exhaust turbine failure I’ve read about regarding Kratos turbos. Interestingly enough.. the first was also tuned by CARY and that customer was on a built motor.

Im curious, how is 36PSI different on a stock motor compared to a built motor? Wouldn’t the internal pressures on engine components —therefore stress— remain the same considering the majority of built engines retain OEM bore and stroke specs? So in theory a built application should induce more stress since higher torque is targeted through the DME? A ported or built head couldn’t be the major difference maker here in alleviating this right? I’m sure I’m missing something, but I’m genuinely curious and would appreciate any insight you can provide.

Many thanks

The level of stress a stock engine rotating assembly is exposed to vs. a built engine at the same power is significantly different even if the built engine tune is requesting higher torque targets. The major difference between the two is that the ability of the built rotating assembly to endure stress is exponentially higher due to superior material quality. Therefore, the limit or the ceiling of what would be considered stressful for a stock engine is quite lower than that of a built engine.

We want to be clear that we're not claiming that the 36psi boost target was a direct cause of the turbo failure. We are simply pointing out that this practice on a stock engine is not only unsafe, but also not required to produce maximum power output. If we and many of our customer have produced 800whp@32psi on a stock engine tuned on E85 with our previous KRAS55Bi's over the years, why the need to target 36psi and stress the engine even further? If the customer is not able to produce similar hp figures with similar boost at sea level, then something is wrong. Increasing boost target to levels unsafe for stock engine internals because those figures aren't being achieved is never the correct approach. If in fact straight E85 is being utilized as OP stated, why is the dme retarding such a large amount of timing for the given timing command?

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

The links for the datalogs dont work

Here again are the complete links OP sent us several weeks ago that seem to be working fine.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6195...729b67b25b0091
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6195...90c62ca2666fb8

[RodF82]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

When OP's turbos were received for warranty inspection, the first thing our Service Department noticed during tear down was that the turbine inducer of the failed turbo had missing or broken blades which we provide him pictures of. We explained to OP that it would be impossible for this type if failure to occur as a result of a manufacturing defect due the fact that the inducer blade of the turbine sits inside an empty cavity of the turbine housing and would therefore be impossible to make contact with any part of the turbine housing/manifold. In addition, we asked for OP to provide the most recent logs to support our findings as well as try to prevent a situation like this from occurring again. After receiving the logs, right away we noticed major flaws within the logs. The most concerning was the total timing correction hitting as high -7 degrees which is extremely unsafe and should definitely not be occurring. In addition, a target of 36psi on a stock engine with upgraded turbos is also something that we find very alarming. This has nothing to do with any limitation of our turbo systems, as we have several customers producing 1000+whp with our KRAS55EVO's on built engines consistently without fail from different tuners. It has to do with the fact that this level of boost is considered unsafe on a stock engine with turbo upgrades. After discussing this with OP, it was fairly evident that his ability to understand or interpret logs was limited. Therefore, we tried our best to explain to him in great detail how these logs would not be considered as safe. We even took it a step further and asked him to provide these logs to other reputable tuners to confirm if the information we provided to him about his logs could be verified. We implore anyone reading this thread that has a legitimate understanding of forced induction internal combustion engines as well as how to read and interpret logs, to state that these logs are acceptable, safe, and reliable.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6195...729b67b25b0091

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6195...90c62ca2666fb8


After providing OP all the pertinent information to support our findings, he accepted the results and agreed to pay for the Service and move forward with the repair. What he failed to post was that he also asked if we could reach out to Halim@HCP on his behalf to see if Halim could retune his car once he received the turbos back. Why would he do this if he felt so passionate about his tuner and his abilities? We don't disagree that the Service/Repair took longer than originally anticipated, however we always kept in communication with him and provided constant updates.

What OP also failed to post was that after we sent him an email update this past Friday to inform him that his turbos would be shipping this week, he asked us to send him a complete refund for the Service stating that he now disagreed with our findings. When he was told he would not be receiving the full refund demanded, he then emailed us back demanding a refund for rebuild service we performed on the turbo that did not fail and for us to cover it under warranty. What's quite telling is that OP agreed to service for the damaged turbo and install new internal components on the non-damaged turbo at the agreed upon price, then changed his mind after the fact and decided we should provide a full refund. What we also explained to OP is that we make it a point to install new components on any non-damaged turbo if the other turbos comes in for a failure issue. This is common practice to ensure both turbos are serviced with new internals. However, this is not a requirement and OP could have asked us to reassemble the non-damaged turbo without installing new internal components. As a result of his demands not being met, he decided to post partial information online regarding his experience in an attempt to skew forum members views to defame or discredit us.

The simple fact is that turbo systems are a mechanical parts and are in no way, shape, or form indestructible. Severe abuse, overspeed, oil contamination, faulty tunes, broken spark plug electrodes, etc. are all factors that lead to turbo failure. The fact that we advertise our turbos as being able to handle extreme conditions is based on the fact of all other factors we just listed are not part of the equation. Once any of these conditions occurs, the results will be catastrophic to a turbocharger no matter how superior the build quality or bearing technology is.

As OP decided to publicly divulge the name of the tuner, we ask forum members not stoke the fire and try to turn this thread into a KRATOS vs cary jordan battle as we will not be participating in throwing shade against any individual tuner, nor have we ever spoken negatively about cary jordan to OP at any point. We simply made an assessment based on the data provided which OP did not have to accept or agree to. However, posting partial information because OP decided to change his mind and all of a sudden disagree after the Service is completed, does not validate or constitute his claim that KRATOS has poor customer service and product quality.

"When OP's turbos were received for warranty inspection, the first thing our Service Department noticed during tear down was that the turbine inducer of the failed turbo had missing or broken blades which we provide him pictures of."

---- This is a untrue. I never received pictures from you. The only picture I have of the blown turbo is the one I posted. Which was from the shop who removed them.

“What he failed to post was that he also asked if we could reach out to Halim@HCP on his behalf to see if Halim could retune his car once he received the turbos back. Why would he do this if he felt so passionate about his tuner and his abilities?”

--–From the only conversation we had on the phone YOU recommended that I reach out to Halim. Your words “We normally don’t recommend tuners to customers but you should reach out to Halim for a retune as your tune is unsafe.” From there I did reach out to Halim for a second opinion on the logs but I decided to stick with Carry. Reason being, instead of getting a new tune why don’t the manufacture of the turbos get with me and my tuner and make recommendations. That way your product can be used flawlessly by different tuners across the business. As everyone on this forum can see, we have a close/tight community where we share experiences and learn from each other.

Yes I did ask for a refund. Kratos have to prove that the turbos were not damaged due to manufacture defect/etc. Kratos assessment is an assumption that the turbos failed due to high EGTs –not a fact. Like I said before, the turbine blade is the only failed part on the car.

After Kratos said the turbo failed due to the tune I showed the logs to others and none agreed with their assumption. Whether or not the turbos failed due to the tune or defect, Carry was professional and helpful the entire time and offered to look at the tune again if I decided to reinstall the turbos.

This post is not to “throw shade” at anyone but to share my experience with Kratos. I hope that anyone that is considering to purchase their products see this interaction and make an informed decision and not have to experience what I did. I urge you to look at other posts on this forum where Kratos failed to take accountability for warranty claims. Also, look at the YouTube videos and posts where others also stated that Kratos products was delivered severely behind schedule.

For everyone that has Kratos turbos which are working fine, I’m happy for you and wish I was in the same boat. Mistakes happen and nothing is perfect but using customers and taking their hard earned money in exchange for sub-par products and poor customer service is where I draw the line.

[chetrickerman]

Im only posting to give an objective opinion of datalogs as someone who has analyzed tens of thousands of datalogs, does know how to read them properly and has been tuning for 12+ years. I have no skin in this game, this is not meant to bash a tuner or a company.

The AFR is definitely lean compared to what you should be targeting for your power level to retain a certain safety margin, especially on the stock motor. This can play a big part in EGT's and reliability.

The total timing correction is around -7 degrees in most of the datalogs, however that is total timing correction which most of the time is from reducing the torque output to match the torque target and not individual cylinder corrections. I did see up to -5.3 degrees in a single cylinder correction which is significant, but not enough to indicate the EGTs are extreme enough to cause damage to the turbine wheel.
Its possible that in extreme cases of high EGT the material of the blades can become fatigued enough creep and make contact with the turbine housing.

The exhaust valves don't necessarily have to be damaged to indicate high EGT's because the high enthalpy exhaust gasses are further compressed in the exhaust manifold collector and turbine volute, the pressure and temperature can be significantly higher in the volute compared to at the exhaust port.

90% WGDC on the Kratos when running 33-36 psig does seem a little high which can indicate a boost leak and forcing the turbos to work harder which can lead to overspinning of the rotor group.

Bottom line is that I would not state that the datalogs show that the tune was safe and reliable, however, I would state that the logs show that the tune wasn't horrible and is not the direct cause of the failure. To me, it appears that there are several factors that could have attributed to the failure, but this is not a case of "this one thing" for sure caused the failure

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by RodF82

"When OP's turbos were received for warranty inspection, the first thing our Service Department noticed during tear down was that the turbine inducer of the failed turbo had missing or broken blades which we provide him pictures of."

---- This is a untrue. I never received pictures from you. The only picture I have of the blown turbo is the one I posted. Which was from the shop who removed them.

“What he failed to post was that he also asked if we could reach out to Halim@HCP on his behalf to see if Halim could retune his car once he received the turbos back. Why would he do this if he felt so passionate about his tuner and his abilities?”

--–From the only conversation we had on the phone YOU recommended that I reach out to Halim. Your words “We normally don’t recommend tuners to customers but you should reach out to Halim for a retune as your tune is unsafe.” From there I did reach out to Halim for a second opinion on the logs but I decided to stick with Carry. Reason being, instead of getting a new tune why don’t the manufacture of the turbos get with me and my tuner and make recommendations. That way your product can be used flawlessly by different tuners across the business. As everyone on this forum can see, we have a close/tight community where we share experiences and learn from each other.

Yes I did ask for a refund. Kratos have to prove that the turbos were not damaged due to manufacture defect/etc. Kratos assessment is an assumption that the turbos failed due to high EGTs –not a fact. Like I said before, the turbine blade is the only failed part on the car.

After Kratos said the turbo failed due to the tune I showed the logs to others and none agreed with their assumption. Whether or not the turbos failed due to the tune or defect, Carry was professional and helpful the entire time and offered to look at the tune again if I decided to reinstall the turbos.

This post is not to “throw shade” at anyone but to share my experience with Kratos. I hope that anyone that is considering to purchase their products see this interaction and make an informed decision and not have to experience what I did. I urge you to look at other posts on this forum where Kratos failed to take accountability for warranty claims. Also, look at the YouTube videos and posts where others also stated that Kratos products was delivered severely behind schedule.

For everyone that has Kratos turbos which are working fine, I’m happy for you and wish I was in the same boat. Mistakes happen and nothing is perfect but using customers and taking their hard earned money in exchange for sub-par products and poor customer service is where I draw the line.

Here is the same exact picture that was sent to you which clearly shows the inducer blades of your turbine wheel missing. We're not going to continue to argue with you as to whether you received it or not. If we had anything to hide, why would we provide a picture of your turbine wheel to this thread?

You asked our staff who we work with to tune our S55's and the answer they gave you was, “We normally don’t recommend tuners to customers but you should reach out to Halim for a retune as your tune is unsafe.” We're not refuting that, but you're again intentionally leaving out information to serve your interest. Also, why would we as a turbo manufacturer with experienced Engineers in the field of turbocharger design need to reach out to our customer or his tuner for advice to learn how to prevent our turbo systems from failing?

If your purpose for this review is to try to inform the community about your experience, please explain why you agreed to our original assessment of the damages, paid for the work to be performed, and then only after you were told there were ready to ship back you decided to then disagree with the assessment and demand a full refund? Also, since you stated we should have discussed with you to advise us how to make our turbo systems "flawless", can you please advise as to why you haven't explained how it's physically possible for a turbine inducer that spins inside an empty cavity to have blades missing if there was nothing wrong with your setup?

You state that your intention is not to throw shade at anyone, yet you claim that KRATOS use their customers and takes their hard earned money by providing a sub-par product. Keep in mind that this is the same turbo system that hundreds of our customers have been running for years without fail as well as many producing 1000+whp. As we stated before, we don't claim our turbo systems are indestructible. We also don't deny failures can occur or have occurred on a handful of our turbo systems. However, assumptions that all failures are related to manufacturing defects that we refuse to warranty is unfounded. In this case, we stand behind our assessment that it would be impossible for a manufacturing defect to have caused this type of turbine inducer failure. It's apparent that nothing we can say or do is going to change your opinion of our assessment even when presented with physical proof. Having said that, we are confident that forum members educated in the subject matter can look at the facts provided and arrive at their own conclusion.