Another crankhub failure...

[Chase__M4]

Hey guys... so I just wanted to give you guys some insight on what happened to me today with the hopes that this never happens to anyone else again (sadly it will). I purchased a certified pre owned single owner lease return M4 about 2 weeks ago. I’m coming from a FBO E92 M3 coupe so I knew the M4 was the next step to take. I did tons and tons of research, I kid you not I spent about 12 hours total scouring mostly the forums and the rest of the internet for any info regarding the crankhub issue.

Long story short I thought the car would be pretty solid to just handle a simple stage one BM3 tune, it is a 2018 with 21k miles and DCT. With all of my research and speaking to multiple shops about this issue I decided to run a stage 1 tune. I believe the BM3 tune gives you about 60 more HP over stock. I ran the car sort of hard for 20 minutes to try it out but ZERO aggressive down shifts or “kickdowns.” I parked the car for 2 hours and took it out again, I could already tell that something was wrong. When I gave it gas the turbos struggled to build boost and it actually shook the whole car on full pedal depression. It felt like something was going to give if I kept the pedal down. So I stopped fully depressing the pedal thinking it was just the weak stock charge pipes about to pop off or something. About 20 minutes later I was driving about 70mph on the freeway (can’t remember what gear) but I gassed it a little and let off at about 4000rpm, then the dreaded drivetrain malfunction warning appeared. I immediately threw it into neutral because I hear that’s the best way to save the motor and pulled off to the side of the road. Towed it to SSR Performance in Orange County California.

My plan is to have SSR drop the motor and do their standard crankhub fix. I am in no way affiliated by SSR I am just a loyal long time customer, but I can 100% say that this issue is heightened by adding even a little bit of power. The SSR crankhub fix is my best option for now but I guess I will find out next week how bad the damage really is. I’m only making this thread for others who are thinking about running a tune like I was without doing the crankhub fix procedure. Thanks for reading and I hope everyone starts seeing a lot less horror stories like these on the forums and people realize that this issue IS VERY REAL.

If anyone is interested I can post a few updates regarding the crankhub fix.

UPDATE: I did not know I purchased the car with a JB4 attached... it’s looking like the JB4 plus the added bm3 stage 1 tune could be the culprit to my SCH. The main code that was found after taking to SSR is “Intake and exhaust camshaft angle deviation with respect to crankshaft.”

FINAL UPDATE: I got the car back and better than ever. I spun my crankhub Saturday night, SSR began working on it Monday morning. It was ready Thursday afternoon! Full crankhub fix with their 4 pinned solution, SSR power pack (Intake system, aluminum charge pipes, and catless downpipes), and a BM3 Stage 2 91 tune and the car feels amazing! Huge difference going to the stage two system and a 4 day turn around. Shoutout to SSR again for taking great care of the car. (Also their intakes sound fantastic). Feels very good to be able to drive the car around all day today with no issues, I even did a kickdown

[LATTES]

Marked, please give an update later if there is any engine damage occurred. Is it an ots stage 1 tune? What octane are u running?
Also do you know which part caused the failure? Is it a stub pack off? Or spun hub? If you had installed a capture plate would it prevent this?
Sorry to hear about that, you void your warranty and that sucks..

[White340]

Maybe the previous owner had a tune on it too.

[LATTES]

Originally Posted by White340

Maybe the previous owner had a tune on it too.

BMW wouldn't do a cpo for tuned cars, they should know it.

[Chase__M4]

Originally Posted by LATTES

Marked, please give an update later if there is any engine damage occurred. Is it an ots stage 1 tune? What octane are u running?
Also do you know which part caused the failure? Is it a stub pack off? Or spun hub? If you had installed a capture plate would it prevent this?
Sorry to hear about that, you void your warranty and that sucks..

It was an OTS stage 1 tune. 91 octane. I won’t know for a few days here because it is still the weekend. I’m curious about how much capture plates prevent though, however I already need to pull the engine so I will definitely go the full route with a keyed/pinned crankhub fix.

I am curious about people on leases returning their cars that have been tuned whether they face repercussions or not. Thank you for the kind words, I definitely knew what I was getting into with this car and tuning (warranty voided/crankhub issue) however I did not think it could happen so quickly after tuning and carefully downshifting. You live and you learn

I will update when the week starts!

[Ghosn]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I can only imagine the grief it's caused you. Hopefully the damage is not too great and you can make a recovery out of this.

I must say tho, I've recently read a lot posts regarding the SCH and I'm very surprised at the advice that people are giving(workshops included) on this forum, telling others they should be ok with a tune and not too worry too much about the SCH issue.

From what I can gather, I would say DON'T TUNE YOUR CAR unless you get some sort of fix, otherwise your car is a ticking time bomb. It's a huge price to pay.

Also, a big FAIL on BMW's part to not even acknowledge the problem. It's a shame they built a pretty weak engine especially being one of their most recognized cars and best performance sellers.
__________________

[White340]

Originally Posted by LATTES

BMW wouldn't do a cpo for tuned cars, they should know it.

I had a piggyback on my last car (340 xDrive)for 2.5 years and they sold it as a CPO. Not sure how that happened..

[aBMWfan]

Originally Posted by Ghosn

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I can only imagine the grief it's caused you. Hopefully the damage is not too great and you can make a recovery out of this.

I must say tho, I've recently read a lot posts regarding the SCH and I'm very surprised at the advice that people are giving(workshops included) on this forum, telling others they should be ok with a tune and not too worry too much about the SCH issue.

From what I can gather, I would say DON'T TUNE YOUR CAR unless you get some sort of fix, otherwise your car is a ticking time bomb. It's a huge price to pay.

Also, a big FAIL on BMW's part to not even acknowledge the problem. It's a shame they built a pretty weak engine especially being one of their most recognized cars and best performance sellers.
__________________

Once the crankhub is fixed it might be a pretty strong motor actually. I am at 731 whp and 701 tq on stock motor crankhub done at SSR along with a laundry list of other things. We’ll see how it holds but it’s definitely encouraging

[somedude]

I literally posted a couple days ago debating whether to tune. Reading this def helps me decide to just keep it stock. I also thought going stage 1 was safe as i thought it was the common census bw forum members. I’m already not telling my wife about deciding to tune I can’t imagine telling her, “hey I voided the warranty by tuning and now we have this $X,XXX bill we have to pay outta pocket.” She would beat me senseless. Best of luck to you.

[landonvan]

It really is a crap shoot. More people are tuned with no fix than there are with. I have been tuned Cary Jordan for 5k now with only the CBC. I don’t drive crazy but still good.

[MR_X]

Originally Posted by LATTES

BMW wouldn't do a cpo for tuned cars, they should know it.

I don't know about BMW, but I traded my 2018 S3 which had an APR Stage 1 tune. It was sold as a CPO even after I told them about the tune.

[Djdnav]

Originally Posted by Chase__M4

but I can 100% say that this issue is heightened by adding even a little bit of power.

So you buy a car that was driven by someone else for X miles, and then you think that just because you spun after running a tune that it’s 100% scientific fact that it was caused by running the stage 1 power level? You guys are too much.

[Mintsopoulos]

Bummer man.

When you say working the car "sort of hard" what do you mean...Launches? 40/60 Rolls? You said no kickdowns so just trying to possibly pinpoint the cause...not that it really matters whats done is done. Either way itll come back stronger ready for some big HP.

[SSR Performance]

Sorry to hear about this Chase! Trust me we will get her back up and running in no time. I will update you on everything tomorrow to let you know what we’re looking at in terms of damage. I would be surprised if it’s anything more than just a spun crank hub, in which case we will replace it with our upgraded Keyed 4 Pin Crank Hub and you will be on your way. You would have really had to be on it for it to have had any sort of catastrophic engine failure. Usually the hub doesn’t spin more than just a few degrees before the DME realizes and shuts the engine off.

I’m seeing a lot of crank hub related questions popping up in this thread so I’ll drop a video down below that I made with my good friend of mine, Omar from Simply Car Things on Youtube. The video goes over a basic understanding of the crank hub issues and my experience based THEORIES / OPINIONS on the issue. Hope it helps those of you who are trying to gain a basic understanding of it.

Shah @ SSR Performance

[whatnotsomuchf80]

Originally Posted by Chase__M4

Hey guys... so I just wanted to give you guys some insight on what happened to me today with the hopes that this never happens to anyone else again (sadly it will). I purchased a certified pre owned single owner lease return M4 about 2 weeks ago. I’m coming from a FBO E92 M3 coupe so I knew the M4 was the next step to take. I did tons and tons of research, I kid you not I spent about 12 hours total scouring mostly the forums and the rest of the internet for any info regarding the crankhub issue.

Long story short I thought the car would be pretty solid to just handle a simple stage one BM3 tune, it is a 2018 with 21k miles and DCT. With all of my research and speaking to multiple shops about this issue I decided to run a stage 1 tune. I believe the BM3 tune gives you about 60 more HP over stock. I ran the car sort of hard for 20 minutes to try it out but ZERO aggressive down shifts or “kickdowns.” I parked the car for 2 hours and took it out again, I could already tell that something was wrong. When I gave it gas the turbos struggled to build boost and it actually shook the whole car on full pedal depression. It felt like something was going to give if I kept the pedal down. So I stopped fully depressing the pedal thinking it was just the weak stock charge pipes about to pop off or something. About 20 minutes later I was driving about 70mph on the freeway (can’t remember what gear) but I gassed it a little and let off at about 4000rpm, then the dreaded drivetrain malfunction warning appeared. I immediately threw it into neutral because I hear that’s the best way to save the motor and pulled off to the side of the road. Towed it to SSR Performance in Orange County California.

My plan is to have SSR drop the motor and do their standard crankhub fix. I am in no way affiliated by SSR I am just a loyal long time customer, but I can 100% say that this issue is heightened by adding even a little bit of power. The SSR crankhub fix is my best option for now but I guess I will find out next week how bad the damage really is. I’m only making this thread for others who are thinking about running a tune like I was without doing the crankhub fix procedure. Thanks for reading and I hope everyone starts seeing a lot less horror stories like these on the forums and people realize that this issue IS VERY REAL.

If anyone is interested I can post a few updates regarding the crankhub fix.

Hey man really sorry to hear about what happened. Honestly just some bad luck. I'm hoping just a simple crank hub fix will do the trick and no lasting damage was done. I know this is probably a crazy suggestion right now given you're still probably shocked by what happened, but I do suggest upgrading your tune since you are already doing the crank hub fix. I upgraded from stage 2 to a full e85 tune from Cary through my favorite shop SSR Performance and honestly, the difference is amazing. I'm smoking Lamborghini Huracans off of a roll. I feel very secure w the 4 pin design and once you upgrade that and your spark plugs, these engines are pretty much bulletproof. Regardless, don't let this get you down. Once you upgrade your crank hub you can downshift like crazy w security and have some real fun. Shout out to Shah and Zayn and SSR Performance for taking care of me. You're in great hands.

[hC1001]

Sorry to hear. Hope its not a lot of damage. It doesnt sound like it. I was ready to go BM3 stage 1 93oct but decided to stick to BM3 stock CS tune for now after hearing ppl loading a tune and immediately slipping the crank hub. I might get a crank hub fix in the future if prices for install goes down..

Please update us on what SSR finds. Did bolt loosen, friction disk break, or just plain slip...
Thanks and goodluck.

[horsepower_and_hounds]

When a BMW dealer submits a car for CPO certification they do not investigate deeply for possible tuning. They just do standard scope and visual. Replace the items to bring it up to standard then certify it. Done.....

And for the life of me when I read these posts they start to sound like people are blaming the tune or something. This is a random mechanical failure......

The M4 GTS was released in 2016 with the same engine...... and upped the power to 493 hp & 443 tq. Possibly the added tq numbers are causing issues?

Who knows.... but like what is posted everywhere, we only hear of the few failures..... not of all the tuned cars that are still going miles after miles

Thanks for the update & saddened for the failure

[Fuel-It!]

Bummer to hear. It's 100% a factory flaw with the S55 platform. This is exactly why a lot of S55 customers just run JB4 map1 or map2 levels for a mild power increase with the ability for easy removal down the road.

[mark5092]

Sorry to hear. Just luck of draw I guess. Since 2015 there still are not enough cases to even concern me. I’ve had 2 M4’s now and an M3 all tuned and run very hard and not a single issue. All DCT’s. I purchased an M4 in 2015 for my son for his HS graduation gift and set it up aggressive and no problems with 18 year old driving it. We now have a 2018 M4 ZCP with BM3 Stage 1 93 and 2018 M3 ZCP BM3 Stage 2 93. They get run hard each day.

[Chase__M4]

Originally Posted by Djdnav

So you buy a car that was driven by someone else for X miles, and then you think that just because you spun after running a tune that it’s 100% scientific fact that it was caused by running the stage 1 power level? You guys are too much.

I totally get where you are coming from brotha. I was thinking like this before it happened to me. I drove the car fairly hard and it felt absolutely fine. But right after a stage 1 tune 40 minutes in I knew something was wrong. Maybe it is a huge coincidence but again after everything I’ve read and experienced I know it was the stage 1 tune. Car was absolutely fine before the tune...

[Chase__M4]

Originally Posted by SSR Performance

Sorry to hear about this Chase! Trust me we will get her back up and running in no time. I will update you on everything tomorrow to let you know what we’re looking at in terms of damage. I would be surprised if it’s anything more than just a spun crank hub, in which case we will replace it with our upgraded Keyed 4 Pin Crank Hub and you will be on your way. You would have really had to be on it for it to have had any sort of catastrophic engine failure. Usually the hub doesn’t spin more than just a few degrees before the DME realizes and shuts the engine off.

I’m seeing a lot of crank hub related questions popping up in this thread so I’ll drop a video down below that I made with my good friend of mine, Omar from Simply Car Things on Youtube. The video goes over a basic understanding of the crank hub issues and my experience based THEORIES / OPINIONS on the issue. Hope it helps those of you who are trying to gain a basic understanding of it.

Shah @ SSR Performance

Thank you Shah, I appreciate you guys. I’m praying for no engine damage and she will be coming back better than ever!

[Chase__M4]

Originally Posted by mark5092

Sorry to hear. Just luck of draw I guess. Since 2015 there still are not enough cases to even concern me. I’ve had 2 M4’s now and an M3 all tuned and run very hard and not a single issue. All DCT’s. I purchased an M4 in 2015 for my son for his HS graduation gift and set it up aggressive and no problems with 18 year old driving it. We now have a 2018 M4 ZCP with BM3 Stage 1 93 and 2018 M3 ZCP BM3 Stage 2 93. They get run hard each day.

I hate how ambiguous the issue still is to this day. I am very glad to hear that you or your son have had no issues though. Maybe it’s only on 91 octane tunes (doubt it) but who knows... I do know that even though a crankhub preemptive fix is a lot of money, if I could go back in time I would do it just to be sure I’m not going to destroy the motor. I hope your cars continue to stay healthy because this is not a fun occurrence