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      02-16-2015, 01:53 PM   #1
Darius13
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Carbon ceramic brakes in heavy rain

I'm curious if someone has had a similar experience as me. Today, I was driving my M4 on the motorway in heavy rain for the first time since I bought the car. When I had to brake, the braking was almost non-existent. Maybe 20% of what it should be. If I was in an emergency situation, I would definitely end up crashing. After the brakes got warm and dry, they were fine but if you drive for a few minutes in the rain without touching the brakes, the same thing occurs which cannot be right. I had a similar experience when I left the car wash, but I was going slowly.
I will call BMW tomorrow and to get some advice.
In the mean time, any feedback would be great.
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      02-16-2015, 04:00 PM   #2
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I have not experienced this under moderate rain, and I just came through moderate snow, there weren't any decernable differences.
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      02-16-2015, 04:18 PM   #3
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Have not been in heavy rain yet. I think the manual states something to the effect that in rain the braking is diminished to that of steel brakes which will feel diminished compared to normal ceramic feel but nothing near 80% degradation. Thanks for warning, though.
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      02-16-2015, 08:38 PM   #4
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Scary! I've ordered CCBs, too, so keep us posted. Can you provide your impressions - overall, beyond this issue - on the CCBs so far in this thread as well?

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...php?p=17403670



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Originally Posted by Darius13 View Post
...In the mean time, any feedback would be great.
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      02-16-2015, 09:00 PM   #5
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I've noticed this with my steel brakes too. In VERY heavy rain the initial brake application isn't very responsive.
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      02-16-2015, 11:07 PM   #6
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This can be found in the sticky Deep Drive and Interview:
Quote:
If the brake disc and pads become wet, all brakes undergo a drop in their friction coefficient. M carbon ceramic brakes normally have a considerably higher coefficient of friction than conventional brakes, and they feel considerably fiercer in operation. However, under the impact of moisture and road salt, for example after using a car wash, or when condensation has formed overnight, the braking effect may be equivalent to that of a conventional brake system. This may be perceived as reduced braking performance, but it can be compensated for by applying more pressure with the brake pedal; this should be continued until the pads and discs have fully dried out. Since the difference in frictional coefficient between dry and wet brakes is higher than normal with M carbon ceramic brakes, it is felt all the more clearly by the driver.
I didn't notice any problems in heavy rain - hardly see past the hood heavy rain that is. But that was in the summer. Likewise, frigid temperatures haven't presented a challenge. Then again we have a dry type of cold up here. Perhaps colder temperatures and heavy rain aren't a good mix? I find that riding them before having to apply them in these situations warms them up and dries them off quickly. I think that a panic stop should still be possible too, if your leg press exercises are up to snuff.
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      02-16-2015, 11:08 PM   #7
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I've had the same experience in heavy rain with my CCBs.
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      02-16-2015, 11:26 PM   #8
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I have Ccb and I know exactly what you're talking about. I went on a 200 mile road trip when my car only had 550miles on odometer. Brakes wasn't breaker into yet. Heavy rain condition and the car felt like it had 20%braking power. After that I tried bedding my brakes more frequent. Even after I get out of a car was nowadays the braking power is like 50% the first two blocks. Try bedding your brakes more. They take some beating to break into I believe
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      02-17-2015, 12:26 AM   #9
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Guys, would you please provide your overall feedback on the CCBs in the thread linked below? It'd be greatly appreciated and helpful to all!!

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1091378



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Originally Posted by chrisca View Post
I've had the same experience in heavy rain with my CCBs.
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Originally Posted by MWcoupe View Post
I have Ccb and I know exactly what you're talking about...
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      02-17-2015, 12:42 AM   #10
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Drive safe out there
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      02-17-2015, 01:30 PM   #11
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Thanks for the feedback. I spoke with various people from BMW and according to them, the behaviour of the brakes in heavy rain which I experienced is normal . I talked to a sales rep who owns an M3 with CCBs and had the exact same experience as I did. I was told to just be extra careful in heavy rain, that's it. My car has done 1300 miles so the brakes probably haven't fully broken in yet but i'm not expecting any different behaviour once they have.
I insisted that an inquiry has to be made about this and I was promised that an email will be sent to Germany to get some answers. I'll keep you posted.
In the mean time, to anyone who has CCBs, be very careful whilst driving in very wet conditions. Make sure you pump your brakes frequently so that they are dry and hot.
I still think that CCBs are the way to go as when they are hot, the braking performance is far superior to that of metal brakes.
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      02-17-2015, 07:08 PM   #12
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glad you learnt this during regular driving, not during an emergency.

While it sounds like you still like the brakes, a lot of posts I've read recently, this one included, that solidify my decision to go with standard brakes
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      03-15-2016, 06:13 AM   #13
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I have the same problem under heavy rain and highway, this is really scary actually because I was about to crash few times due to unresponsive brakes. I had to press the brake harder and longer time than expected during a road trip this weekend, I was literally about to bump the car in front of me, thank god they got dry and warm just before this happened. I slowed down and continue my trip at low speed. CCB users, please be really careful in heavy rain.
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      03-15-2016, 01:37 PM   #14
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I've had this on steel brakes too! It's very scary and the brakes are non existent for 2-3 seconds (a long time on an off ramp).
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      03-22-2016, 11:56 AM   #15
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didn't the e9x have that brake drying feature where you would turn on the rain sensor wipers and it would apply light pressure to the brakes to keep them dry as you drove or something to that effect?
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      03-23-2016, 07:02 AM   #16
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This is normal on steel brakes as well. Nothing new here
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      03-23-2016, 07:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2kaccordocoupe
didn't the e9x have that brake drying feature where you would turn on the rain sensor wipers and it would apply light pressure to the brakes to keep them dry as you drove or something to that effect?
This was the first possible solution which i thought can solve the problem. It seems like we don't have it though because my rain sensor was on all the time and I still had the problem... I recently got all the modules updated on the car, maybe if this something related to the software, it may help.
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      03-23-2016, 07:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2kaccordocoupe View Post
didn't the e9x have that brake drying feature where you would turn on the rain sensor wipers and it would apply light pressure to the brakes to keep them dry as you drove or something to that effect?
I believe it only operates at high speeds where you can't tell that the brakes are being applied every so slightly just to clean off the mating surface of the pad and the rotor..

So if you're experiencing brake efficiency losses at slow speeds you'll just have to be careful with CCBs..

I've been in super heavy rain in my F80 w/ steel brakes and haven't felt a loss in braking strength and I POUNDED on them just to see how the wet traction braking was with the stock Michelins..and it's not too bad.
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      03-23-2016, 07:29 PM   #19
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I have been in HEAVY RAIN and the CCB's have always held up fine... Even after a carwash, takes only a few seconds for them to bite
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      03-23-2016, 07:45 PM   #20
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very common story with CCBs... I've heard it can be a bit disconcerting
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      03-23-2016, 11:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rr006rbc
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2kaccordocoupe View Post
didn't the e9x have that brake drying feature where you would turn on the rain sensor wipers and it would apply light pressure to the brakes to keep them dry as you drove or something to that effect?
I believe it only operates at high speeds where you can't tell that the brakes are being applied every so slightly just to clean off the mating surface of the pad and the rotor..

So if you're experiencing brake efficiency losses at slow speeds you'll just have to be careful with CCBs..

I've been in super heavy rain in my F80 w/ steel brakes and haven't felt a loss in braking strength and I POUNDED on them just to see how the wet traction braking was with the stock Michelins..and it's not too bad.
Can you define the high speed? I was on a highway doing 120-130mph for like an hour actually.. Please don't judge me because the road is very empty and 4 lane highway. Also my brakes are working fine after washing as well but this was really heavy rain conditions plus high speed without braking for a long time so I assume the brakes were really very cold..
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      03-24-2016, 12:15 AM   #22
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My CCB's work great in heavy rain. Normal slight delay (as with steel) when coated with water and road grime.
At high speed, things happen so much faster so I bet you really notice the delay before the rotor gets cleaned.
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