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      03-03-2021, 09:20 AM   #3301
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
As a PCA instructor since like 2015 I'm not sure 'no history with the brand' is accurate

I have a massive amount of experience at the track with both the cars and its owners.
Many times, that brand is like a mental illness for people who were never fast to begin with at the track, but who become convinced that instead of taking their driving from 6/10 to 7/10, what they need is to switch cars. You can recognize those afflicted by this disease with some symptoms:
-They are not fast
-They place their trust in technology and the vehicle, instead of learning to drive
-Commonly speak of 'dedicated sports car', as if they drove fast enough to notice the difference between that and a watermelon
-Whenever things come up in their cars and they don't perform as expected, it's because they did not tick the right option box. Not their fault for their cretinous driving. Their GT3 RS is not fast enough vs a M3 because they did not tick the Weistec package box. Boo hoo.
-Despite having 'purpose built sports cars', they have the most mods of the entire paddock
-Do strange things like upgrade to a GT3 brake booster in their Cayman, then say it's no longer possible to rev match. Proven wrong immediately after.
-Whenever their dedicated sports car gets its ass handed to it, they come look at your car. Then point things out like 'but you removed the rear seats!!!' as if they had rear seats in the first place, and as if that were the difference for their loss. Of course they overlook they run full aero, or that my brother and I were screwing around and both of us were in the car when the incident happened
"No history" meaning that you have not owned one. And I know for a fact that you despise the brand, you told me yourself in person . You even told me you run/instruct with them just to "teach them a lesson" .

And yes, I agree, too many Porsche owners are poseurs and don't know how to drive. For sure, you are faster in your ///M than many sub-optimally driven Porsches. But that does not mean they aren't great driving machines. And sometimes it is not only about lap-times, it is also about how they feel at the wheel and the enjoyment they provide. And I also agree that way too many people focus on mods to chase laptimes, but that is also very true with ///M owners. I am with you, I prefer to focus on improving driving skill, an it is one of the reasons I keep my cars as close to stock as possible (that and warranty).

I guess I wanted to find out for myself before the ICE era is begone if the 911 is worth all the fuss. Being un-satisfied with the G8X gave me the opportunity to jump ship and try it out. I'll find out soon enough if the fuss is worth the price of admission. It does not mean I might not come back to ///M someday .
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      03-03-2021, 09:23 AM   #3302
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Originally Posted by CT_M3 View Post
SYT_Shadow Respectfully.

I think its too broad a brush to paint everyone who's commented in these 140 pages. Quite a few here have been fans of the brand for a long time, its not that we're hating on the car just because of how bad it looks etc., but because it is a clear signal that BMW continues to bastardize its M lineup for the sake of sales #s, and continues to veer away its M heritage. Let's face it, BMW M has been relying on its heritage to sell cars. They are no longer in F1, and have not been heavily involved in racing since then (2009).

Instead, this is what makes the headlines:
https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...ms?language=en

I think the 140 pages also includes a lot of venting and frustration, not entirely just on the G8x but what the car signifies about the brand.

For some here, the M3 has always exemplified the best and more extreme performance BMW; the most high performance expression that the company sells. It's a halo car that draws in young teens, puts posters on walls. Hence, the crazy high bar that some people put out there.

I still remember the E46 M3 when it was launched. That was one car that I actually lusted after. Every time I saw one, I would catch a glimpse. For years, it shocked the world being able to put out >100hp/liter, supercar like performance. Can we say the same of the latest iteration? even the F8x?

1) "Simplify and add lightness" - Colin Chapman (Lotus Cars)
Weight is foundational to the overall performance of the car. I expected the next iteration to be equal (+/- 100lbs or less). The S58 is expected to be higher performing; so there's that. But the increased size of the car, weight of the car is just disappointing. BMW just appeared to go back to the ole playbook of throwing a heavier engine to make up the shortfalls of the platform due to the lard inducing addition of more creature comforts, cost cutting efforts.

2) The deafness of the heads @ Munich. It is shocking from the ads, the interviews (Dukec, Van Hooydonk et. al) that the company is 1) adamant that it knows best design wise. They even refer to the classic design cues as 'ashes'. 2) BMW refuses to even acknowledge the criticisms of its long time fans and followers. I read some of those articles and am just SMH. BMW also proceeds to 3) call its fans names such as 'boomers' in ads.

3) The use of influencers (this really annoys me) on the reveal. That was insulting; I consider myself of average intelligence, but to hear some guy tell me that the car was the greatest thing since sliced bread when I can clearly see it had issues, made me question what water they were drinking. It almost felt like a scene from the Emperor Who Had No Clothes and BMW was telling trying to brainwash me into accepting the car. Not sure how others felt about that, but I started unsubbing all the channels that revealed themselves as influencers.

I'm still a BMW fan; there are lots of reminders of the great cars the company has made. I love the track events that M motorsport puts on. But this new direction the company is taking is questionable and ultimately makes BMW another Lexus, or Audi clone. Yes, Porsche charges more. Why? Because they can. Why? Aside from their meticulous engineering, they have built the brand equity to allow them to do through repeated successes at showing the 911 as the halo car for the sports car enthusiast.

BTW: I think the burger analogy fair; to me, the price increase is to be expected due to inflation and margin pressure. That's not the issue. The issue is when the product falls short of the expectations.

I keep buying In and Out (or whatever) and don't really think about the prices at all. But if the burger starts skimping out by doling out thinner slices of patty and more bun to make me feel full, I start buying less or look for alternatives. And I can afford a 911, but being a fan of BMW, the M3 had always represented a good compromise as a DD and sports car. It also represented good value. Sadly, this appears to be fading. So maybe some of us here have to pay more and get that Ruth Chris' burger. So be it.
I was not lumping in all the posters together, if it seemed that way I apologize. There's a bit of everything in this thread

Weight has been going up on all cars. The 992 weighs more than the 991. We'll see how much the weight goes up in this gen. I track the cars a lot and if it weighs more it's a problem, but I don't think this is a problem for most people. The M3 has to be a jack of all trades.

I dislike influencers plenty. I don't have social media. Most of the time they are people barely above the mentally challenged threshold. I could care less what any of those clowns says.

On aesthetics, I don't have a problem with them, but admittedly I would drive the car even if it had a clown face on it so long as it is fast.

In general I don't enjoy turbos, auto trannys, EPS, etc. But I've tracked the E46 a lot and the F8X is 15 seconds faster around a track like the Glen, I'll take that any day. The ends justify the means in this case. BMW is not able to make 2000 cars for a entire run and then provide them with NA engines, so although I'd prefer NA engines I'm ok with the turbo ones.

When I go to IMSA I see BMWs there doing pretty well, despite questionable BoP moves by the sanctioning bodies. I don't think that has much to do with the street M3.
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      03-03-2021, 09:24 AM   #3303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
"No history" meaning that you have not owned one. And I know for a fact that you despise the brand, you told me yourself in person . You even told me you run/instruct with them just to "teach them a lesson" .
Getting spicy in here.
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      03-03-2021, 09:25 AM   #3304
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
"No history" meaning that you have not owned one. And I know for a fact that you despise the brand, you told me yourself in person . You even told me you run/instruct with them just to "teach them a lesson" .

And yes, I agree, too many Porsche owners are poseurs and don't know how to drive. For sure, you are faster in your ///M than many sub-optimally driven Porsches. But that does not mean they aren't great driving machines. And sometimes it is not only about lap-times, it is also about how they feel at the wheel and the enjoyment they provide. And I also agree that way too many people focus on mods to chase laptimes, but that is also very true with ///M owners. I am with you, I prefer to focus on improving driving skill, an it is one of the reasons I keep my cars as close to stock as possible (that and warranty).

I guess I wanted to find out for myself before the ICE era is begone if the 911 is worth all the fuss. Being un-satisfied with the G8X gave me the opportunity to jump ship and try it out. I'll find out soon enough if the fuss is worth the price of admission. It does not mean I might not come back to ///M someday .
I despise the fanatical fanboys, but not only from Porsche, also from Tesla for example. Those are even worse than Porsche ones, for sure.

I do enjoy teaching the lesson that one must overcome themselves, and that throwing dollars at problems is not the solution.

The ICE era is indeed ending, and with that the track things we like doing are also going away for everyone except the wealthiest among us. Sad to see.
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      03-03-2021, 09:26 AM   #3305
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Yeah, I'm definitely taking it with a grain of salt, I just hope other comments won't echo this as I saw two other deleted reviews mention a harsh ride as well. I just think BMW could polish their suspension skills a bit after driving in their recent M cars and some competitors with nicer rides.
Totally agree, from my experience and many others that have left BMW for Ford, GM and yes Porsche offerings echo a lot of the same comments. They are way behind those other brands when it comes to chassis, suspension and electric steering tuning in comparison. It is no surprise as BMW has admitted that they are investing in other things and it obviously shows.

Edit: FWIW, I think Porsche is somewhat behind in some areas compared to GM and Ford when it comes to suspensions also. Those mag ride systems are the real deal and are great compromise for street compliance/comfort and occasional HPDEs. If you are a really serious track rat a lot of have switched those out for coil overs etc.
100% Agree, GM's Magneride is one of the most impressive suspension setups out there, and their chassis tuning is equally impressive, its a shame so many people immediately don't believe comments like that purely because of the badge associated with it. I'm definitely interested to see how they have evolved it with Magneride 4.0 in the new Blackwings.
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      03-03-2021, 09:26 AM   #3306
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Originally Posted by dms-01 View Post
Getting spicy in here.
It's not getting that spicy. CanAutM3 and I know each other, so we can disagree with stuff but it's never going to get really entertaining. Once the border is open again I look forward to seeing him again
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      03-03-2021, 09:31 AM   #3307
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
It's not getting that spicy. CanAutM3 and I know each other, so we can disagree with stuff but it's never going to get really entertaining. Once the border is open again I look forward to seeing him again
Man you say you despise fanboys but you come across as a huge fanboy. Of what exactly I don't know though lol.
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      03-03-2021, 09:32 AM   #3308
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Man you say you despise fanboys but you come across as a huge fanboy. Of what exactly I don't know though lol.
I've posted plenty of things I don't like about the G8X... not sure where you see the absolute happiness with the new gen
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      03-03-2021, 09:34 AM   #3309
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I've posted plenty of things I don't like about the G8X... not sure where you see the absolute happiness with the new gen
I said "of what I don't know" not that you were a fanboy of the G8x.
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      03-03-2021, 09:36 AM   #3310
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I despise the fanatical fanboys, but not only from Porsche, also from Tesla for example. Those are even worse than Porsche ones, for sure.

I do enjoy teaching the lesson that one must overcome themselves, and that throwing dollars at problems is not the solution.

The ICE era is indeed ending, and with that the track things we like doing are also going away for everyone except the wealthiest among us. Sad to see.
I still think it is the Ford guys that are the worst, especially the Shelby crowd. M6G is one of the worst forums for it. I do agree about the Porsche ones. Another reason I resisted buying one for so long. Thankfully I haven't ran into the the Tesla guys yet. But, I'm not into the track seen as much as you and CanAutM3. Which, is why I got a lowly 6MT GTS 4.0 that is looked down upon by 911 and GT4 owners. The thing is so fun on the street/backroads though so I don't give a shit what they think.

Last edited by minn19; 03-03-2021 at 09:43 AM..
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      03-03-2021, 09:47 AM   #3311
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I still think it is the Ford guys that are the worst, especially the Shelby crowd. M6G is one of the worst forums for it. I do agree about the Porsche ones. Another reason I resisted buying one for so long. Thankfully I haven't ran into the the Tesla guys yet. But, I'm not into the track seen as much as you and CanAutM3. Which, is why I got a lowly 6MT GTS 4.0 that is looked down upon by 911 and GT4 owners. The thing is so fun on the street/backroads though so I don't give a shit what they think.
It is nice they started offering the 4.0L GTS, even if it is looked down on by others. The GTS was already a great car but it was missing a great engine. Now it has one.
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      03-03-2021, 09:48 AM   #3312
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
It's not getting that spicy. CanAutM3 and I know each other, so we can disagree with stuff but it's never going to get really entertaining. Once the border is open again I look forward to seeing him again
Same here
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      03-03-2021, 09:50 AM   #3313
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Same here
We need to forge some documents so you can say you're coming into the US to 'visit your family'. Little do they know it's your 'track family'
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      03-03-2021, 09:51 AM   #3314
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I despise the fanatical fanboys, but not only from Porsche, also from Tesla for example. Those are even worse than Porsche ones, for sure.

I do enjoy teaching the lesson that one must overcome themselves, and that throwing dollars at problems is not the solution.

The ICE era is indeed ending, and with that the track things we like doing are also going away for everyone except the wealthiest among us. Sad to see.
I still think it is the Ford guys that are the worst, especially the Shelby crowd. M6G is one of the worst forums for it. I do agree about the Porsche ones. Another reason I resisted buying one for so long. Thankfully I haven't ran into the the Tesla guys yet. But, I'm not into the track seen as much as you and CanAutM3. Which, is why I got a lowly 6MT GTS 4.0 that is looked down upon by 911 and GT4 owners. The thing is so fun on the street/backroads though so I don't give a shit what they think.
Oh that's a reason why I don't bother signing up for Rennlist. You seen that thread on the bucket seats right? lol All that crap over a 5k option normal people won't need, just for looks.

All brands that have a car, catering to something have "that guy". It's a people problem, not a brand problem. You have to talk down to others to justify what you own. I don't care what other ppl think when it comes to my own personal cars. I tend to say I drive a Prius, which I do. The only time I discuss cars in person are only with my select group of friends, no one else. Not even my gf as I have far more other concerns I am with her.
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      03-03-2021, 10:01 AM   #3315
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We need to forge some documents so you can say you're coming into the US to 'visit your family'. Little do they know it's your 'track family'
Hoping it is going to work out with PCA zone-1 mid-June. I really want one last stab at WGI with my M4cs before I trade it in.
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      03-03-2021, 10:03 AM   #3316
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Hoping it is going to work out with PCA zone-1 mid-June. I really want one last stab at WGI with my M4cs before I trade it in.
I'll be there. I hope you can come. Who would have ever imagined the US-CAN border remaining closed for a year!
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      03-03-2021, 10:04 AM   #3317
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I despise the fanatical fanboys, but not only from Porsche, also from Tesla for example. Those are even worse than Porsche ones, for sure.
Oh my god the Tesla crowd is the f-ing worst kind.

They think they're so freaking cool with their 0-60 time and looking down at you because they're being "green" and I dare to use gasoline and yet first time I saw one on track it crashed in the 2nd corner and totaled...

They're also the one brand consistently harassing on the highway regardless of what model they drive, 3 or X or whatever...
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      03-03-2021, 10:11 AM   #3318
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Oh that's a reason why I don't bother signing up for Rennlist. You seen that thread on the bucket seats right? lol All that crap over a 5k option normal people won't need, just for looks.

All brands that have a car, catering to something have "that guy". It's a people problem, not a brand problem. You have to talk down to others to justify what you own. I don't care what other ppl think when it comes to my own personal cars. I tend to say I drive a Prius, which I do. The only time I discuss cars in person are only with my select group of friends, no one else. Not even my gf as I have far more other concerns I am with her.
Yeah that seats thread is the worst. Expected for that forum in its entirety with what kind of people post (or allowed to) there.
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      03-03-2021, 10:21 AM   #3319
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Originally Posted by Tecnniqe View Post
Oh my god the Tesla crowd is the f-ing worst kind.

They think they're so freaking cool with their 0-60 time and looking down at you because they're being "green" and I dare to use gasoline and yet first time I saw one on track it crashed in the 2nd corner and totaled...

They're also the one brand consistently harassing on the highway regardless of what model they drive, 3 or X or whatever...
I agree, Tesla owners are so aggressive and always want to race you, like they have something to prove. I usually do not entertain them, but on one occasion I had a Model-3 Performance that just pulled onto the highway come straight to tailgate me so close that I could not even see his bumper in my rearview mirror. So I decided to indulge and punched it. I completely left him in the dust. As I slowed down to a more sedate speed and pulled to the right lane, he did not even dare look at me when he passed . The Tesla fanbois often forget that they are fast from a dig, but not so much from a roll.
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      03-03-2021, 10:24 AM   #3320
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tecnniqe View Post
Oh my god the Tesla crowd is the f-ing worst kind.

They think they're so freaking cool with their 0-60 time and looking down at you because they're being "green" and I dare to use gasoline and yet first time I saw one on track it crashed in the 2nd corner and totaled...

They're also the one brand consistently harassing on the highway regardless of what model they drive, 3 or X or whatever...
I agree, Tesla owners are so aggressive and always want to race you, like they have something to prove. I usually do not entertain them, but on one occasion I had a Model-3 Performance that just pulled onto the highway come straight to tailgate me so close that I could not even see his bumper in my rearview mirror. So I decided to indulge and punched it. I completely left him in the dust. As I slowed down to a more sedate speed and pulled to the right lane, he did not even dare look at me when he passed . The Tesla fanbois often forget that they are fast from a dig, but not so much from a roll.
Don't forget about how they call their Model 3's M3's
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      03-03-2021, 10:32 AM   #3321
Tecnniqe
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I agree, Tesla owners are so aggressive and always want to race you, like they have something to prove. I usually do not entertain them, but on one occasion I had a Model-3 Performance that just pulled onto the highway come straight to tailgate me so close that I could not even see his bumper in my rearview mirror. So I decided to indulge and punched it. I completely left him in the dust. As I slowed down to a more sedate speed and pulled to the right lane, he did not even dare look at me when he passed . The Tesla fanbois often forget that they are fast from a dig, but not so much from a roll.
Yeah I was going barely over the limit past a Model X and dude just threw himself out so close he probably could've touched my MPE tips and seeing as the lane he moved from was empty I just swapped over to let him past since I was just out for a cruise with nowhere to be and he just went up to my side and kept "jerking" back and forth wanting to race.

I took him to gapplebees when we entered a tunnel (for extra drama, maybe something other than a hoover scared him) and he just swapped over to the lane I was in and kept dropping off behind me when I slowed down

Usually I don't entertain people like this, because I don't want a ticket and/or to lose my license for something so stupid.
But damn it was worth it. Everybody hates them. It unites all brands around here, common hate for Tesla
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      03-03-2021, 10:33 AM   #3322
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Originally Posted by R N M View Post
I'm not sure if ppl missed it but the car I posted is still available.

I don't remember ever seeing that with F8x on the 1st cars hitting dealers. I'm sure it will sell OK but definitely not the same excitement due to the controversial styling.......
Yes, it happened with the F8X too. Short memories!!! The car didn't fly out of dealers either. Also consider that even if the car sold, the dealership might let it sit there until the 9th anyway.
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