The Bimmerpost review on the M235i has useful info on EPS

[mister2d]

Hmm... none of those were ///M cars. I'm gonna stay optimistic.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by solstice

2011 F10 535i.

I've also tracked 2014 640GC, 650GC, 650i and 650i vert. I've taken a 2013 X3 for a road trip etc. All EPS cars.

I haven't followed the steering in those cars at all, but did any of them offer various settings (..i.e..Comfort, Sport, etc.)? I know they are calibrated differently than the 3 as well. I'm curious what you'd think of a 335i in Sport.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I haven't followed the steering in those cars at all, but did any of them offer various settings (..i.e..Comfort, Sport, etc.)? I know they are calibrated differently than the 3 as well. I'm curious what you'd think of a 335i in Sport.

They were all including mine equipped with the adjustable dynamic modes and dampers. The steering actually got worse ( artificially heavy ) in the sportier modes while the suspension got better.

I have not yet driven an F30 335i more than around the block at the dealer which is too little for me to make any judgement. I would guess the lighter weight helps vs the porky 5 and 6s.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by solstice

They were all including mine equipped with the adjustable dynamic modes and dampers. The steering actually got worse ( artificially heavy ) in the sportier modes while the suspension got better.

I have not yet driven an F30 335i more than around the block at the dealer which is too little for me to make any judgement. I would guess the lighter weight helps vs the porky 5 and 6s.

I think you should spend some seat time in an M-Sport 335i. I'm curious what your observations will be considering that you don't care for EPS at all.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by mister2d

Hmm... none of those were ///M cars. I'm gonna stay optimistic.

This is true and why I'm also cautiously optimistic. There are currently no M car with EPS which is a bit telling in itself that BMW did not perceive EPS too be good enough for the M5 and M6s but now they do with none less than their halo M car which should count for something. I think we can be pretty sure the F80's steering will be significantly better than current BMW EPS cars but it's not something I'm willing to gamble on before driving the car.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I think you should spend some seat time in an M-Sport 335i. I'm curious what your observations will be considering that you don't care for EPS at all.

I might do that but I think a long drive in a 991 might be a better comparison since I think BMW has started from a clean sheet with the F80's EPS and it's the 991 steering feel that BMW has targeted and benchmarked against. I only have a short drive in the 991 and was so impressed with the whole package that I forgot to pay close attention to the steering but it was not a deal breaker in that car at that time, that's for sure.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by solstice

This is true and why I'm also cautiously optimistic. There are currently no M car with EPS which is a bit telling in itself that BMW did not perceive EPS too be good enough for the M5 and M6s but now they do with none less than their halo M car which should count for something. I think we can be pretty sure the F80's steering will be significantly better than current BMW EPS cars but it's not something I'm not willing to gamble on before driving the car.

Couldn't one consider the Servotronic system as an EPS of sorts??? Just fanning the conversation for conversation's sake.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Couldn't one consider the Servotronic system as a EPS of sorts??? Just fanning the conversation for conversation's sake.

My understanding:

Servotronic: Variable boost depending on speed. Boost can be varied in any PS system wether it's EPS or HPS. I.e it's not EPS or HPS specific.

Active steering: Variable steering ratio. Works mainly on the gearing of the steering system not the boost.

EPS: Electric power steering. An electric motor provides boost instead of a hydraulic pump in HPS.


Servotronic can definitely make steering feel worse. In the HPS E9X M3 servotronic is almost not detectable, the steering weight feel natural at any speed. In the HPS Porsche Cayenne Servotronic make the steering so light at low speed that it feels over boosted and unnatural. It also robs it of feel IMO, not everyone agree on this but to me it's a significant downgrade in steering feel when used aggressively due to the noticeable change in boost and little resistance at low speed.

[Sapper_M3]

Originally Posted by solstice

I might do that but I think a long drive in a 991 might be a better comparison since I think BMW has started from a clean sheet with the F80's EPS and it's the 991 steering feel that BMW has targeted and benchmarked against. I only have a short drive in the 991 and was so impressed with the whole package that I forgot to pay close attention to the steering but it was not a deal breaker in that car at that time, that's for sure.

Haha, I had the EXACT same experience in a 991 this past summer: I went into it with the goal of observing the steering feel with the new EPS (one of a few goals, admittedly, but it was something specific I wanted to pay attention to beforehand). The entire package felt great (although with the C2 being 345 hp, the grunt was noticeably less than an E9X M3--even being nearly 500 lbs lighter), and I even made an offhand mental note of how much I liked the steering feel--without remembering to pay attention to it being EPS! I was stepping out of the car before I remembered and said "Holy Shit! Porsche hit this out of the park!"

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by solstice

I might do that but I think a long drive in a 991 might be a better comparison since I think BMW has started from a clean sheet with the F80's EPS and it's the 991 steering feel that BMW has targeted and benchmarked against. I only have a short drive in the 991 and was so impressed with the whole package that I forgot to pay close attention to the steering but it was not a deal breaker in that car at that time, that's for sure.

agree

ive driven a 991 4s and it was amazing. ive also driven higher end 997 models and IMO the 991 steering is just as good if not better. its tough to judge because the 991 is such a better car overall, its stability is incredible

I think the m3 steering will be good, but I don't think it will be as good as the 991 overall. that car is the benchmark for me for handling and steering feel in a road car.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by solstice

Servotronic can definitely make steering feel worse. In the HPS E9X M3 servotronic is almost not detectable, the steering weight feel natural at any speed. .

ohhhhh I gotta totally disagree with you there. the m3 steering is annoyingly light at low speeds IMO. its good once up to speed, but far too boosted at low speeds for my liking.

there have been comments to this in many reviews of the e9x as well.

in comparison, the 1m steering was better calibrated and less boosted

[solstice]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

ohhhhh I gotta totally disagree with you there. the m3 steering is annoyingly light at low speeds IMO. its good once up to speed, but far too boosted at low speeds for my liking.

there have been comments to this in many reviews of the e9x as well.

in comparison, the 1m steering was better calibrated and less boosted

Even the standard 328i has a lower more satisfying boost level but the servotronic on the M3 is the best I've tested since I can't detect the changes in boost, it feels like normal gyroscopic changes. Compare that too many other Servotronic cars where you can steer with the pinky at low speed. The M3 retain decent resistance and feedback at any speed IMO.

[nonagon]

Originally Posted by solstice

Even the standard 328i has a lower more satisfying boost level but the servotronic on the M3 is the best I've tested since I can't detect the changes in boost, it feels like normal gyroscopic changes. Compare that too many other Servotronic cars where you can steer with the pinky at low speed. The M3 retain decent resistance and feedback at any speed IMO.

I'm with you regarding a preference for good old fashioned BMW hydraulic steering, but disagree about electronic steering actually gets worse in Sport/Sport+, at least on my X3. Steering in those modes does becomes heavier but it feels more accurate and more sporty, and hardly artificial. Not as much road feel as I'd like, but I actually think it's pretty decent. Clearly tuning can make a huge difference and have confidence that the M engineers won't mess this up on the M3/M4.