Alternative to PFC11 for Stock Calipers?

[NYG]

I love my PFC 11s but they're generating way too much heat and after 5-6 laps I start losing around ~1s from my fastest lap.

I know the best bet here is to get a BBK but I don't want to spend that kind of money right now. Some brake cooling would help too but all of the rigs I've seen so far isn't something I'd go for so I just want to know if there's a pad that generates a little less heat and holds up better throughout the day.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by NYG

I love my PFC 11s but they're generating way too much heat and after 5-6 laps I start losing around ~1s from my fastest lap.

I know the best bet here is to get a BBK but I don't want to spend that kind of money right now. Some brake cooling would help too but all of the rigs I've seen so far isn't something I'd go for so I just want to know if there's a pad that generates a little less heat and holds up better throughout the day.

I would try one set of Ferodos and report back with your comparison to the PFC11s. I only tried the 08s on the stock calipers and it wasn't an enjoyable experience. I can't speak for the 11s but I know "Shadow" runs some fast laps with them on a BBK. I honestly don't recommend going 100% braking all the time with the stock caliper/rotor setup as it just doesn't have time to cool down.

What's wrong with a DIY cooling solution in lieu of a full-on BBK setup? I planned on designing my own in Catia but decided to go with the quick and dirty route others in the forum have already done. It definitely reduced temps at the front/rear brakes > improved pad life. It still won't be nearly as good as a BBK but it's better than nothing at all.

Replying to your comment in the other thread. I've never lost the brake pedal with any fluid/pad combination; however I have experienced serious, almost wreck inducing, ice mode with Pagids and the PFC08s.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

I would try one set of Ferodos and report back with your comparison to the PFC11s. I only tried the 08s on the stock calipers and it wasn't an enjoyable experience. I can't speak for the 11s but I know "Shadow" runs some fast laps with them on a BBK.

What's wrong with a DIY cooling solution in lieu of a full-on BBK setup? I planned on designing my own in Catia but decided to go with the quick and dirty route others in the forum have already done. It definitely reduced temps at the front/rear brakes > improved pad life. It still won't be nearly as good as a BBK but it's better than nothing at all.

Replying to your comment in the other thread. Never lost the brake pedal with any fluid/pad combination however I have experienced serious (almost wreck induced) ice mode with Pagids and the PFC08s.

I ended up going with PFC08s in the front and going to keep PFC11s in the rear.

What happened with the Pagid and PFC08?

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by NYG

I ended up going with PFC08s in the front and going to keep PFC11s in the rear.

What happened with the Pagid and PFC08?

Oh no. I do not recommend even trying the 08s. Seriously, go with Ferodo/Gloc/Carb/Hawk upfront.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Oh no. I do not recommend even trying the 08s. Seriously, go with Ferodo/Gloc/Carb/Hawk upfront.

The 08 is a really popular compound for Porsche/BMW guys.

I absolutely love my 11s but they fade too quickly for me.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by NYG

The 08 is a really popular compound for Porsche/BMW guys.

I absolutely love my 11s but they fade too quickly for me.

Yeah i know..and that's why I tried PFC in the first place. Never again unless I get an E36 or something.

Give them a shot and report back in this thread or with a pm. My suspicion is that you will have even more issues with the 08s. I didn't like the initial bite at all, and the pad was quickly overwhelmed with threshold braking.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Yeah i know..and that's why I tried PFC in the first place. Never again unless I get an E36 or something.

Give them a shot and report back in this thread or with a pm. My suspicion is that you will have even more issues with the 08s. I didn't like the initial bite at all, and the pad was quickly overwhelmed with threshold braking.

Stop scaring me Aaron....

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by NYG

Stop scaring me Aaron....

Just remember I'm full of crap at least 60% of the time on here!

[SYT_Shadow]

Just remember the 08 is the endurance pad which was replaced by the 12 compound, the 11 is the race pad that replaced the 01 pad. So besides Gen X vs Gen X+1 there's also the endurance vs race difference

I don't think it's possible to overheat the actual pad in the 11 compound. I know because I've tried very, very hard. I suppose your brake system is failing somewhere else

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Just remember the 08 is the endurance pad which was replaced by the 12 compound, the 11 is the race pad that replaced the 01 pad. So besides Gen X vs Gen X+1 there's also the endurance vs race difference

I don't think it's possible to overheat the actual pad in the 11 compound. I know because I've tried very, very hard. I suppose your brake system is failing somewhere else

I agree - it would be extremely hard to actually overheat the PFC 11 sprint-race compound. I’ve used the PFC 11 compound in two different PFC brake setups and one Essex/AP Racing brake setup - I’ve never encountered a single issue the PFC 11 compound.

I’d look at the rotors. The F8x OEM iron rotors aren’t efficient at pumping air thru the cooling vanes due to the aluminum hat-pin design. The F8x design is a huge improvement over the E9x design but it still reduces air flow.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Just remember the 08 is the endurance pad which was replaced by the 12 compound, the 11 is the race pad that replaced the 01 pad. So besides Gen X vs Gen X+1 there's also the endurance vs race difference

I don't think it's possible to overheat the actual pad in the 11 compound. I know because I've tried very, very hard. I suppose your brake system is failing somewhere else

I don't think I'm literally overheating the pad, so you're spot on.

I'm doing my best to avoid investment in a BBK, so I know my weakness roots in brake cooling. The fluid boils quickly so my pedal gets soft as well but typically they wait until the end of the day to reach those temps. Prior to the fluid giving out, I do notice I lose consistently in brake distance with the 11 as I approach the latter part of my sessions. I discussed with PFC and aside from both of us agreeing that the stock brake system is a sham, they did say that 08 will be much more consistent throughout the session/day. They didn't say it was going to be a cure for my woes, which I'm already certain they won't be but they did say it should help me keep my confidence throughout the day and that it was worth a shot.

I'll be debuting them at the Glen so I'll follow-up.

[Montaver]

Are you using SRF? My e9x is a heavy pig, on stock rotors with PFC-11 it isn't fading after 5-6 laps. Pedal went a little soft at Palmer but it was 100F+ and the brakes werent really cooling at all. I'd like more confidence in the brakes in general, but I think that's the rotors / calipers not the pads. I'll be at WGI this weekend as well with NASA

[NYG]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Are you using SRF? My e9x is a heavy pig, on stock rotors with PFC-11 it isn't fading after 5-6 laps. Pedal went a little soft at Palmer but it was 100F+ and the brakes werent really cooling at all. I'd like more confidence in the brakes in general, but I think that's the rotors / calipers not the pads. I'll be at WGI this weekend as well with NASA

See you there bro!

I'm going to use PFC665 this time.

I used Motul 600 previously.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by NYG

I don't think I'm literally overheating the pad, so you're spot on.

I'm doing my best to avoid investment in a BBK, so I know my weakness roots in brake cooling. The fluid boils quickly so my pedal gets soft as well but typically they wait until the end of the day to reach those temps. Prior to the fluid giving out, I do notice I lose consistently in brake distance with the 11 as I approach the latter part of my sessions. I discussed with PFC and aside from both of us agreeing that the stock brake system is a sham, they did say that 08 will be much more consistent throughout the session/day. They didn't say it was going to be a cure for my woes, which I'm already certain they won't be but they did say it should help me keep my confidence throughout the day and that it was worth a shot.

I'll be debuting them at the Glen so I'll follow-up.

Originally Posted by NYG

See you there bro!

I'm going to use PFC665 this time.

I used Motul 600 previously.

I expect sub :10s at the Glen or no more whining about your brakes NY!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by NYG

and aside from both of us agreeing that the stock brake system is a sham

That is one thing that is clear beyond all doubt.

I'll never forget the number of useless tools on this forum that swore the brakes were wonderful and they were God's gift to man... what a way to perpetuate a lie.

The stock brakes are wonderful for all the hard parkers who are like 'yo man 380mm rotors!'.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

That is one thing that is clear beyond all doubt.

I'll never forget the number of useless tools on this forum that swore the brakes were wonderful and they were God's gift to man... what a way to perpetuate a lie.

The stock brakes are wonderful for all the hard parkers who are like 'yo man 380mm rotors!'.

Sadly, the even larger iron rotors on the M2 Comp do little to improve overall performance yet add significant weight. It’s sad when GM (Camaro) and Ford (Mustang) have better performing smaller-diameter stock setups that are installed on heavier cars than the M3/4.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

I expect sub :10s at the Glen or no more whining about your brakes NY!

My brakes cooked again but I managed a 2:10.7, almost there!!!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by NYG

My brakes cooked again but I managed a 2:10.7, almost there!!!

good work!!

[NYG]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

good work!!

Slowly working on getting to SYT levels. Your 2:04 was on the 92? What have you managed on the CS?

Thanks for helping out with Mike's car.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by NYG

Slowly working on getting to SYT levels. Your 2:04 was on the 92? What have you managed on the CS?

Thanks for helping out with Mike's car.

you can do it!

The 2:04 was the E90. The E92 doesn't go to the track anymore but back in the day it did 2:09.1 with RE71 tires and MCS suspension.

On the CS no improvements vs the first weekend we drove the car there, where we did 2:06.7 with RE71 tires and stock suspension.
It has MCS suspension now but we are dialing it in and it's proving go be very different than the E90 for whatever reason. So currently it's not any faster than it was stock but that will change.

[MRV99]

I loved the PFC08's for my e90 but when I started using them with my F80 and did not like them. I moved to Ferodo D1.11 and I like them much better. I feel that they have better initial bite and more consistent through the entire braking zone. They wear better and will never go back to the PFC's again

[NYG]

Originally Posted by MRV99

I loved the PFC08's for my e90 but when I started using them with my F80 and did not like them. I moved to Ferodo D1.11 and I like them much better. I feel that they have better initial bite and more consistent through the entire braking zone. They wear better and will never go back to the PFC's again

I always heard that Ferodos are more street than Pagid/PFC and aren't quite as good.