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      08-26-2016, 02:09 PM   #1
infamousdiz
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Can an M3/4 hit 200MPH?

Curious if the M3/4 (with basic mods) is capable to hit 200mph if the speed limiter was removed and running room was not an issue.

Is it even possible with the gearing?

My car made 505 WHP (100oct JB4 map 7), is that enough to theoretically get you to 200mph? I know one of you nerds has the mathematical equation to support a yes or no answer.

If no what type of power is needed to overcome air resistance?
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      08-26-2016, 03:24 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infamousdiz View Post
Curious if the M3/4 (with basic mods) is capable to hit 200mph if the speed limiter was removed and running room was not an issue.

Is it even possible with the gearing?

My car made 505 WHP (100oct JB4 map 7), is that enough to theoretically get you to 200mph? I know one of you nerds has the mathematical equation to support a yes or no answer.

If no what type of power is needed to overcome air resistance?
Assuming my math is accurate, the MT with factory tire circumference and rev limiter would run out of gear somewhere in the 190's

The DCT, should hit 200+ with the power levels you mention. I'd recommend a tail wind though

All of my math was related to gearing, not wind resistance. I'm just assuming a 550bhp/3500lb car should be able to fight through the wind to reach 200 if not a bit more. Not to say this a good idea as I doubt the aerodynamics, and who knows what else, were designed for these speeds.
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      08-27-2016, 03:53 PM   #3
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DCT certainly has the gearing to do 200mph+ whether 500hp is enough who knows.

IIRC the DCT has a limiter of 199mph in addition to the ECU, I seem to remember that from a thread regarding the top speed of the F10 M5. (but that could be wrong)
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      08-27-2016, 04:20 PM   #4
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Math time:

the force that the engine has to exert to beat wind resistance at ~320kph (200mph, ~89m/sec) is:

0.5 x 0.34 (M4 cd) x 1.825 (car width) x 1.377 (car height) x 1.225 (typical air density) x 89 x 89 (m/sec equivalent of 200mph)

The above times 89m/sec gives you the power (power = force x speed, because energy = force x distance) and the power is something like 370Kw.

Which is about 490hp or 496 BHP or somewhere around the ballpark.


So if a car can push 500BHP at the wheels it could hit that mark.


IMHO the 0.34 cd is way too high, especially with no mention of any downforce at any speed, but at least it's good looking.
The E60 M5 had something like 0.26 which is like 25% better, so it could easily hit 200mph with 500 at the crank.
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      08-27-2016, 04:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Molina View Post
Math time:

the force that the engine has to exert to beat wind resistance at ~320kph (200mph, ~89m/sec) is:

0.5 x 0.34 (M4 cd) x 1.825 (car width) x 1.377 (car height) x 1.225 (typical air density) x 89 x 89 (m/sec equivalent of 200mph)

The above times 89m/sec gives you the power (power = force x speed, because energy = force x distance) and the power is something like 370Kw.

Which is about 490hp or 496 BHP or somewhere around the ballpark.


So if a car can push 500BHP at the wheels it could hit that mark.


IMHO the 0.34 cd is way too high, especially with no mention of any downforce at any speed, but at least it's good looking.
The E60 M5 had something like 0.26 which is like 25% better, so it could easily hit 200mph with 500 at the crank.
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      08-27-2016, 04:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Molina View Post
Math time:

the force that the engine has to exert to beat wind resistance at ~320kph (200mph, ~89m/sec) is:

0.5 x 0.34 (M4 cd) x 1.825 (car width) x 1.377 (car height) x 1.225 (typical air density) x 89 x 89 (m/sec equivalent of 200mph)

The above times 89m/sec gives you the power (power = force x speed, because energy = force x distance) and the power is something like 370Kw.

Which is about 490hp or 496 BHP or somewhere around the ballpark.


So if a car can push 500BHP at the wheels it could hit that mark.


IMHO the 0.34 cd is way too high, especially with no mention of any downforce at any speed, but at least it's good looking.
The E60 M5 had something like 0.26 which is like 25% better, so it could easily hit 200mph with 500 at the crank.
You mathed the shit out of that!!
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      08-27-2016, 04:53 PM   #7
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What can I say, I'll always be an engineer, despite what my business card says
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      08-27-2016, 05:57 PM   #8
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Down a steep hill in a very high tailwind.
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      08-28-2016, 09:39 AM   #9
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      08-28-2016, 10:50 AM   #10
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And that's not peak HP. The 500 HP calculated above would need to be at the RPM that corresponds to 200 MPH in gear. So the car would probably need to make 600 HP peak, roughly.
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      08-29-2016, 11:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lippy
And that's not peak HP. The 500 HP calculated above would need to be at the RPM that corresponds to 200 MPH in gear. So the car would probably need to make 600 HP peak, roughly.
@ 505 wheel hp it's peaking 600 crank.
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      08-29-2016, 11:12 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infamousdiz View Post
@ 505 wheel hp it's peaking 600 crank.
That's not what I meant. As an example, let's say the peak HP is 500 HP at 6000 RPM, but drops to 400 HP at 7000 RPM. If you need to turn 7000 RPM to hit 200 MPH, then you would need 500 HP *at that RPM*. in order for the engine to provide 500 HP at that point, when it is off peak, it would need to achieve a higher max HP, maybe 600 HP.
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      08-29-2016, 12:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Molina View Post
Math time:

the force that the engine has to exert to beat wind resistance at ~320kph (200mph, ~89m/sec) is:

0.5 x 0.34 (M4 cd) x 1.825 (car width) x 1.377 (car height) x 1.225 (typical air density) x 89 x 89 (m/sec equivalent of 200mph)

The above times 89m/sec gives you the power (power = force x speed, because energy = force x distance) and the power is something like 370Kw.

Which is about 490hp or 496 BHP or somewhere around the ballpark.


So if a car can push 500BHP at the wheels it could hit that mark.


IMHO the 0.34 cd is way too high, especially with no mention of any downforce at any speed, but at least it's good looking.
The E60 M5 had something like 0.26 which is like 25% better, so it could easily hit 200mph with 500 at the crank.
Good work but one thing you forgot to include was rolling resistance. The wheels do have some resistance to turning due to friction with the road.
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      08-29-2016, 12:48 PM   #14
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any car can hit 200 mph given the proper modifications and runway.....
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      08-29-2016, 02:06 PM   #15
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My brain hurts by reading responds in this thread
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      08-29-2016, 02:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catchm3ifyoucann
any car can hit 200 mph given the proper modifications and runway.....
That could be said about anything,
Real world applications, limiter removed 100 octane and a 800 dollar tune, will not get 99.9% of cars to 200 mph, it's a very special number in the car speed world, like a sub 10 quarter
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      08-29-2016, 02:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lippy
Quote:
Originally Posted by infamousdiz View Post
@ 505 wheel hp it's peaking 600 crank.
That's not what I meant. As an example, let's say the peak HP is 500 HP at 6000 RPM, but drops to 400 HP at 7000 RPM. If you need to turn 7000 RPM to hit 200 MPH, then you would need 500 HP *at that RPM*. in order for the engine to provide 500 HP at that point, when it is off peak, it would need to achieve a higher max HP, maybe 600 HP.
Makes more sense now. Can the mpss take 200 mph?
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      08-29-2016, 04:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infamousdiz View Post
Makes more sense now. Can the mpss take 200 mph?
They're (Y) rated which means 186+ mph. According to Tire Rack the Ferrari 599 GTO came with those tires and it is a 200mph+ car so I would assume so.
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      08-29-2016, 06:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
Weight won't have anything to do with it at speed.
please feel free to elaborate.
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      08-29-2016, 07:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboM View Post
please feel free to elaborate.
weight has a small effect pushing through air resistance, more friction lost via tires due to mass, acceleration is affected by mass also lateral movements. example would be a jumbo jet has a higher cruising speed then .... private jets, 737 ect.
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      08-29-2016, 08:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboM View Post
please feel free to elaborate.
At speeds above 150mph nearly all of your power goes to overcome wind resistance. This is explained reasonably well in an old TG episode (no time to look it up) where James May tries to explain why the Veyron needs so much power to get to its top speed.

The faster you go, the thicker the air feels and the more power you need to push your given shape (fixed Cd) through that "thicker" air.

Anyhow, the 505hp, similarly sized and shaped Giulia claims 190. My 480hp 997.1TT didn't quite crack 200mph either (and manual P-cars tend to be geared to produce peak hp at claimed top speed).

So just comparing those two bits of data I would say no.
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      08-29-2016, 09:37 PM   #22
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I can confirm the M3 can hit 200mph. Not sure about the m4....
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