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      10-22-2019, 11:01 AM   #111
spool twice
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^^ what you could do if you wanted to keep the quad exhaust tips is to route that pipe similar to this (this is what I had in mine to do on mine)



obviously the bends would be smoother than what my hacked drawing shows lol. Essentially get rid of the OE resonator/H-pipe, run new pipes, add length to the shorter side to equalize it more (doesn't have to be 100%, actually a slightly off-set would give it a slight growl, think R32 VR6-like since every other exhaust bank on there's is offset a few inches when the pulses reach the manifolds), and have it merge right before the OEM muffler in an offset fashion.

I'll have to take pics of this when I get mine completed. Hopefully it'll be easy to create and only one try. It really shouldn't be more than $200 to have an exhaust shop complete this.

Actual PIC of the OE set-up from underneath the car (was trying to replicate the OE set up in the top drawing above):

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      10-22-2019, 11:24 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
^^ what you could do if you wanted to keep the quad exhaust tips is to route that pipe similar to this (this is what I had in mine to do on mine)



obviously the bends would be smoother than what my hacked drawing shows lol. Essentially get rid of the OE resonator/H-pipe, run new pipes, add length to the shorter side to equalize it more (doesn't have to be 100%, actually a slightly off-set would give it a slight growl, think R32 VR6-like since every other exhaust bank on there's is offset a few inches when the pulses reach the manifolds), and have it merge right before the OEM muffler in an offset fashion.

I'll have to take pics of this when I get mine completed. Hopefully it'll be easy to create and only one try. It really shouldn't be more than $200 to have an exhaust shop complete this.

Actual PIC of the OE set-up from underneath the car (was trying to replicate the OE set up in the top drawing above):


Gotcha. I thought of that, but then he mentioned that the front DP is ~13-15 inches longer than the other, so I didn't see how to add that full length back in the position you drew up. But geez, if all it takes is a few bends and a res delete, I'd rather go that route anyways. But if full equal length is needed, I'm happy to go single exit. I'm such a sucker for the huge N1 style fartcans anyways. Don't care what people think of it if it'll sound anything like the glorious RB
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      10-22-2019, 11:47 AM   #113
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Yes. Those are on the right track. One thing I would pay attention to is changing the placement of the resonators in the AWE version to reflect the difference in dp length. And spool twice, I would do the same thing with the stock secondary catalytic converters in your drawing also.
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      10-22-2019, 11:50 AM   #114
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I have my ZCP exhaust standing up in my garage and I'm tempted to hack away at it to see if I could keep the stock sound, but with my ideas incorporated..
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      10-22-2019, 01:07 PM   #115
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I like where all this is going. I'm looking into getting an S55 (not sure an M3 or 4 yet) only thing stopping me is the sound of this bitter sweet engine. I come from the land of E9X N55s so I have high expectations for exhaust note (sorry s55). From my understanding, the best setup for performance and sound right now is a resonated catless dp and a single midpipe. Even then, all the major manufacturers are having serious fitment issues and rattles. It's time for iron man to build this hero exhaust in his cave and make the S55 finally sound good.
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      10-22-2019, 05:51 PM   #116
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Didn't realized there was that much room behind the OEM muffler. This might be simpler than I thought. I wonder if cutting a portion of the rear driver side pipe (after eliminating the stock H pipe) and adding a loop to it to add some length to the pipe (I think that's what Spool Twice is suggesting) should make it equal.
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      10-22-2019, 06:15 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_X View Post
Didn't realized there was that much room behind the OEM muffler. This might be simpler than I thought. I wonder if cutting a portion of the rear driver side pipe (after eliminating the stock H pipe) and adding a loop to it to add some length to the pipe (I think that's what Spool Twice is suggesting) should make it equal.
One correction: add length to the passenger side exhaust. you'll know when under the car because it's the one with the secondary cat. farther back

It's strange how pipe/tube seems to take up a lot more room than one expects. Pie cuts are looking more and more like a possibility to me as I go through these design iterations.
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      10-22-2019, 06:22 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMDZidane View Post
One correction: add length to the passenger side exhaust. you'll know when under the car because it's the one with the secondary cat. farther back
yeah that too

Or merger it and add this muffler
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpe-10632/overview/

The other thing that can be done is to put a section of exhaust pipe of bigger diameter to slow down that side of the exhaust flow.
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      10-22-2019, 06:32 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_X View Post
Didn't realized there was that much room behind the OEM muffler. This might be simpler than I thought. I wonder if cutting a portion of the rear driver side pipe (after eliminating the stock H pipe) and adding a loop to it to add some length to the pipe (I think that's what Spool Twice is suggesting) should make it equal.
Oh geez, you're right. Blows my mock up out of the water. I went to a custom fabricator and they quoted me ~$2000 for my design. Which isn't bad, but your option would cost hundreds at most and maybe would only need a different muffler at the very worst. Glad I didn't book that install yet haha. I'm better off finding a valveless muffler that will work with this design.
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      10-23-2019, 01:02 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMDZidane View Post
One correction: add length to the passenger side exhaust. you'll know when under the car because it's the one with the secondary cat. farther back

It's strange how pipe/tube seems to take up a lot more room than one expects. Pie cuts are looking more and more like a possibility to me as I go through these design iterations.
Do you think equalizing the length just before the muffler and much further upstream can affect the sound differently or no?

You guys have no idea how much I want this project to become reality
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      10-23-2019, 01:43 AM   #121
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If I lose interest in this project and don't manufacture it, I'll certainly make sure everything is put out there to help others...including the worthless exhaust makers who've charged so much over the years to hurt our ears and pocketbooks
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      10-23-2019, 02:00 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_X View Post
Didn't realized there was that much room behind the OEM muffler. This might be simpler than I thought. I wonder if cutting a portion of the rear driver side pipe (after eliminating the stock H pipe) and adding a loop to it to add some length to the pipe (I think that's what Spool Twice is suggesting) should make it equal.
I'm no expert here but I don't think adding 12-15" of piping to that side will change the sound, since it exits out with the valves open pretty much a straight pipe anyways, that's like adding an extra 12-15" inch extension of piping to the end of the exhaust tip on the passenger side.

You need to add 12-15" of piping to the passenger side, then MERGE them somehow before the exits to equalize the sound pulses? Just exactly like spool twice's drawing.

Last edited by RSXiMUS; 10-23-2019 at 02:26 AM..
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      10-23-2019, 06:06 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSXiMUS View Post
I'm no expert here but I don't think adding 12-15" of piping to that side will change the sound, since it exits out with the valves open pretty much a straight pipe anyways, that's like adding an extra 12-15" inch extension of piping to the end of the exhaust tip on the passenger side.

You need to add 12-15" of piping to the passenger side, then MERGE them somehow before the exits to equalize the sound pulses? Just exactly like spool twice's drawing.
Iím pretty sure that is what Spool twice is suggesting (and I think we are in the same page) it was hard to see his drawing on my phone.

But yes I was suggesting adding piping before the valves and removing the stock h pipe.
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      10-23-2019, 07:11 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSXiMUS View Post
I'm no expert here but I don't think adding 12-15" of piping to that side will change the sound, since it exits out with the valves open pretty much a straight pipe anyways, that's like adding an extra 12-15" inch extension of piping to the end of the exhaust tip on the passenger side.

You need to add 12-15" of piping to the passenger side, then MERGE them somehow before the exits to equalize the sound pulses? Just exactly like spool twice's drawing.
I have the same concern. Would be funny as hell to have 2 different tones with valves open and closed though haha. From the ~30 minutes of research I've done regarding what's currently on the market, it looks like Borla S type and ATAK might be the only valveless muffler with 2 entrances. The problem is that the entrances to the muffler are on the ends, which means some wonky pipework would be needed on the passenger side to get the extra 14 inches of pipe to fit.

My local fabricator said he would make a custom muffler, but I'm thinking I'll need to go E46 M3 style with both entrances on the driver's side, with a horizontal muffler and passenger side exit. My only concern right now is if I need to merge those 2 pipes into 1 before entering the muffler. I'm going to try to get under a lift to figure this all out. All these aspects are theoretically simple, but it's a different story once you get under the car and realize what clearances you thought you had don't exist.
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      10-23-2019, 06:09 PM   #125
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A small snag, so the front of the diff (or near the outlet of the OE resonator/H-pipe), there is almost no space to curve the passenger side towards the drivers side to add length unless you want pipes that hang low and increase the risk of hitting road debris.

Back to the drawing board. There is a lack of room for 10-13" of length and to also merge the pipes once at least 90% equalized, it'll take some creativity.
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      10-23-2019, 06:56 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
A small snag, so the front of the diff (or near the outlet of the OE resonator/H-pipe), there is almost no space to curve the passenger side towards the drivers side to add length unless you want pipes that hang low and increase the risk of hitting road debris.

Back to the drawing board. There is a lack of room for 10-13" of length and to also merge the pipes once at least 90% equalized, it'll take some creativity.
There's no room to equalise the downpipe length without mega tight bends that'll effect flow and performance. There's also no room to equalise mid pipe length prior to merging and in the big picture, you want to retain the quad exhaust outlets and valved muffler particularly after cat removal for maximum performance, they're LOUD cop bait and drone in the car and the stock ZCP and CS muffler does a good job at noise and drone control.

Without reducing performance potential and retaining quad outlets and a valved muffler with no ugly pipework hanging down under the car, the midpipe is the only area that can be modified to improve the sound and maintain the required features realistically.
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      10-23-2019, 07:18 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevNev View Post
There's no room to equalise the downpipe length without mega tight bends that'll effect flow and performance. There's also no room to equalise mid pipe length prior to merging and in the big picture, you want to retain the quad exhaust outlets and valved muffler particularly after cat removal for maximum performance, they're LOUD cop bait and drone in the car and the stock ZCP and CS muffler does a good job at noise and drone control.

Without reducing performance potential and retaining quad outlets and a valved muffler with no ugly pipework hanging down under the car, the midpipe is the only area that can be modified to improve the sound and maintain the required features realistically.
GEEZ!! What a bummer dude!

Does this have anything to do with the RWC match last weekend?
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      10-23-2019, 09:52 PM   #128
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Maybe someone should come up with a design kinda like the AWE race system but with extra piping to equalize the passenger side, then merge, once we remove the stock muffler there is quite a bit of room for some extra piping.

We could also add some race mufflers where the stock cats are, to keep the system a little more tame, of course we lose the valve system though.

Maybe something like this, excuse the 1st-grade drawing.



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      10-24-2019, 07:10 AM   #129
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^^^definitely would have room with a different muffler/back-box or a full back-box delete for sure.

Another thing I was thinking is to somehow cross the two pipes were the OE resonator/H-pipe sits by deleting it, taking two 3" pipes and turn them more into an oval shape and criss-crossing the pipes, so not actually merging them, just having them swap banks. I say this because a oval-shaped 3" pipe (or slightly crushed) will provide a similar flow to a rounded 2.5" pipe. The passenger side pipes then become the drivers side pipes directly after, and the drivers side pipe is already inherently longer than the passenger side, and then swing the drivers pipe to the passenger side near the rear muffler/back-box to merge them, and route the drivers side pipe back to the drivers side piping.

^^that could actually work, because of two fold reasons:

1) you are reducing the "drivers side" length overall
2) you are increasing the "passenger side" length overall
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      10-24-2019, 09:50 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
definitely would have room with a different muffler/back-box or a full back-box delete for sure.

Another thing I was thinking is to somehow cross the two pipes were the OE resonator/H-pipe sits by deleting it, taking two 3" pipes and turn them more into an oval shape and criss-crossing the pipes, so not actually merging them, just having them swap banks. I say this because a oval-shaped 3" pipe (or slightly crushed) will provide a similar flow to a rounded 2.5" pipe. The passenger side pipes then become the drivers side pipes directly after, and the drivers side pipe is already inherently longer than the passenger side, and then swing the drivers pipe to the passenger side near the rear muffler/back-box to merge them, and route the drivers side pipe back to the drivers side piping.

^^that could actually work, because of two fold reasons:

1) you are reducing the "drivers side" length overall
2) you are increasing the "passenger side" length overall
It might be too fat still. Would like to look where would be the ideal spot to add an overall diameter of 4.5" of pipe at.

https://burnsstainless.com/collectio...=8762177552475

Another solution (if possible) would be to swap the rear exhaust manifold with the forward one. This would swap the turbos downpipe exit around and face them in the correct orientation.

This would allow for the downpipes to be switched around (would have to be custom made). The benefit of this is that then you can use any exhaust since it would be on the OEM position. The down fall is that is the most expensive solution.

Last edited by MR_X; 10-24-2019 at 09:57 AM..
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      10-24-2019, 02:55 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntgarage44 View Post
I have the same concern. Would be funny as hell to have 2 different tones with valves open and closed though haha. From the ~30 minutes of research I've done regarding what's currently on the market, it looks like Borla S type and ATAK might be the only valveless muffler with 2 entrances. The problem is that the entrances to the muffler are on the ends, which means some wonky pipework would be needed on the passenger side to get the extra 14 inches of pipe to fit.

My local fabricator said he would make a custom muffler, but I'm thinking I'll need to go E46 M3 style with both entrances on the driver's side, with a horizontal muffler and passenger side exit. My only concern right now is if I need to merge those 2 pipes into 1 before entering the muffler. I'm going to try to get under a lift to figure this all out. All these aspects are theoretically simple, but it's a different story once you get under the car and realize what clearances you thought you had don't exist.

Hey nt, I'm adding the 14156 resonators to my exhaust today. Seeing what you did gave me the inspiration because I'm trying to stop a tiny bit of rasp that creeps in at full throttle....I'm confident it will work. I'm installing them in a staggered fashion so that the drivers side will be ~14" in front. My theory is that will keep the sound 'correct', at least to me.
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      10-24-2019, 02:58 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMDZidane View Post
Hey nt, I'm adding the 14156 resonators to my exhaust today. Seeing what you did gave me the inspiration because I'm trying to stop a tiny bit of rasp that creeps in at full throttle....I'm confident it will work. I'm installing them in a staggered fashion so that the drivers side will be ~14" in front. My theory is that will keep the sound 'correct', at least to me.
I can't comment on the staggered position, but I promise you the drone will be gone. The resonators worked wonders for the stock note, and I can only imagine what it'll do for your system
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