Switched to a C63

[04S]

Originally Posted by SE7EN335

For what its worth, my friend works at MB and took home a facelift C63s coupe and my non-zcp M3 with the BM3 CS tune was dead even with it on a roll from 40kmh to around 160kmh when we raced in the Simpson Desert


On a dig, whoever gets the better launch will stay ahead. Simple as that.

I have to say the facelift C63s is a much better daily driver than the M3/M4 (more comfortable, better sounding etc etc) but it definitely lacks the agility, finesse and tossability that the M3/M4 has.

This is dead right. I picked up a 2019 c63s earlier this year, and still have the 2016 M3 ZCP to compare it to. The c63 is a way better daily driver, but the M3 is clearly a better track car. And for the guy who tried to compare it to an M5 I have had one of them too (the F10 not the latest model) and they are simply a different car in a completely different category. No comparison at all. Why not suggest someone gets an 850 instead of a C63. Equally stupid comparison.

[thebatman]

Originally Posted by Uwish

Please come to roll racing or the drags.....
Rape..... Im pretty sure Ill eat a c63s for lunch. Mod for mod too.

What's your forum username again????

[thebatman]

Originally Posted by RevNev

Lets get one thing straight here mate. This is NOT a Merc forum, It's a BMW M3/M4 forum. I don't like Mercs, I didn't buy one or join their forum, so I'm on the right forum with the right car to share ideas and opinions with like minded people and you need to respect that.


I've got an HSV VF GTS Commodore that'll smoke a C63s in a straight line with a much better exhaust note however, with the demise of Holden and given that my GTS has only 7000km's on it, I decided to preserve that car in it's as new condition purely as an investment and I bought an M4 for what it was designed to be, a weekend thrasher and track car. I hung my helmet up prematurely from circuit racing in 2004 and the desire to drive on the track never left me.

BMW's are a better track cars than Mercs and the M division are more focused on it than AMG. This is reflected in production car racing particularly for the second year in a row an F8x BMW won the Bathurst 6 hour in fact this year 7 of the top 10 were BMW's, no Mercs, they were way off the pace from the leading M3/M4's and suffered reliability issues.

I didn't buy and M4 to have pose or listen to a V8 exhaust note, I've got a V8 with a better exhaust note than a Merc I can listen to at any time and it's a proper V8 with a 6 speed manual gearbox, but nevertheless, I bought the M4 because it's fastest track car available at the minimum cost that works on the track straight off the showroom floor and retains it's warranty with track use. HSV in comparison will wipe your warranty if it's driven on a race track, BMW don't, in fact they encourage it.

If you want to pay me 200k a year to like Merc's we have a deal!!

Did you respect OP's opinion when he bought a Merc and gave his thoughts? Did you realise that he owned both the M3 and M4 for 3years prior to having the merc? Is the OP in the right forum to post his thoughts aswell?

Sorry...you had me at HSV Commodore
Oh and you aahhheemmm "raced".
You don't like Mercs but love Commies....even though they void warranty if on a track
Ever heard of Formula 1? Know who's dominating?
Thinks AMG engines sounds like a pose
Wants someone to pay him 200k to like Mercs???

Must be some strong sh*t you're smoking....

[thebatman]

Originally Posted by pc93

Please never compare your Commodore to a C63S again. There's a reason why HSV's are extinct... :barf:

[thebatman]

Originally Posted by domino_z

HSV as a business is still trading

:

converting camaros to RHD and charging HSV die hard fans an arm and a leg for it...

[Ghosn]

Originally Posted by thebatman

converting camaros to RHD and charging HSV die hard fans an arm and a leg for it...

On the flip side, if there are people willing to pay for them then good for them and it also continues to give someone a job.

I had a HSV previously(and loved it) so I still have a soft spot for them. The true HSV is long gone but as a business, I hope they can remain around for a while and give people another performance option. I think it's a win for everyone.

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by thebatman

Did you respect OP's opinion when he bought a Merc and gave his thoughts? Did you realise that he owned both the M3 and M4 for 3years prior to having the merc? Is the OP in the right forum to post his thoughts aswell?

Sorry...you had me at HSV Commodore
Oh and you aahhheemmm "raced".
You don't like Mercs but love Commies....even though they void warranty if on a track
Ever heard of Formula 1? Know who's dominating?
Thinks AMG engines sounds like a pose
Wants someone to pay him 200k to like Mercs???

Must be some strong sh*t you're smoking....

The OP like many complained about the performance aspects of the M3/M4 as if it's a fault in the car that the Merc doesn't have. The M3/M4 platform is heavily focused on race track lap times and consequently, comfortability is the trade off.

The OP told us how the Merc sounds better than the M3/M4 because it's a V8. The Merc V8 note is pure garbage compared to the "V8 note" you can get out of a Chev engine Commodore. The point is; the Merc may have a "V8 note", but it's a lousy V8 note that doesn't sound as good as old thong clapping 253 Holden.

The other aspect about HSV Commodores particularly the last of them, are worth more than they were brand new. Can you get 20k more than you paid for a 3 year old C63? I can get 20k more than I paid for my 3 year old HSV GTS and preserving them is a good investment.

I don't like Merc's and if that offends some, bad luck or alternatively you can pay me 200k a year to tell everyone how marvelous Merc's are. Have we got a deal or not?

When a C63's doing 0-100 in 3.6 seconds and can lap Phillip Island 2 secs faster than an M4 for the same price, then I'll consider they're a potentially better car but until then, my opinion of them is they're focused more on accommodating posers than accommodating rev heads like me!

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by thebatman

converting camaros to RHD and charging HSV die hard fans an arm and a leg for it...

I didn't buy one and don't intend to when an M4 will smoke a Camaro around a race track for not much more cost. Nevertheless, HSV are accommodating people who want a new HSV branded V8 now that Holden discontinued production of them and the Camaro platform aligns with Ford's Mustang as it did previously with the HSV and FPV V8 models.

[rblood303]

A relative of mine received his face-lifted C63S last month, I had the opportunity to drive it around (although it wasn't run in yet). I was quite surprised...

Maybe it's because he has the new digital dash, which I originally was not a fan of, but the Merc makes the F80 feel really old. The new direction car makers are taking with the dash works in my opinion, although maybe I'd prefer a hybrid of analogue tacho and digital everything else...

Handling surprised me the most. I always assumed that C63s were like American muscle cars (maybe they were in the past) but this seems to handle great (maybe not as good as the F80 but still better than expected).

Noise wise, its never really been an attribute that I cared about until I got the F80, but I can't say that one is better than the other. While I understand that it's personal preference, the F80 sounds awesome to my ears and unique. Maybe I'm a weird one that prefers the M3 sound to the M2 but it to me, the M3 sounds great while not being too try hard-ish? I have MPE so maybe my opinion is biased.

The C63 sounds great too, and I don't really prefer the sound over the M3, but I like it, not as good as the older NA Mercs but still good.

Wish I could write something about performance but can't really, as I drove it when it only had 55km on it. Hopefully he's added a bit more since then. Will be catching up with him next week...

I was sold, but have internal conflict. I would consider it but something just draws me to the M3 more.

I understand why you switched MO3, hope you are enjoying it!

[AUSf22]

I guess it's fair to say that the C63S and M3/4 will always rival each other and be in debate.

MO3 had his fair share of BMWs, from his e92, m235i to his M3 and 4. It's quite obvious he got a tad bored with BMW and wanted a change, so he went for a Merc.

He then expressed his thoughts on the switch and RevNev took it as a personal attack for some perculiar reason and has not been able to let it go since... forever having a dig when the possibility arises.

[04S]

Originally Posted by AUSf22

I guess it's fair to say that the C63S and M3/4 will always rival each other and be in debate.

MO3 had his fair share of BMWs, from his e92, m235i to his M3 and 4. It's quite obvious he got a tad bored with BMW and wanted a change, so he went for a Merc.

He then expressed his thoughts on the switch and RevNev took it as a personal attack for some perculiar reason and has not been able to let it go since... forever having a dig when the possibility arises.

I did exactly the same thing. 13 BMs in a row, including 4 M cars, one of which I still have. I still like BMW and can appreciate their cars, but, I can also be astounded by my c63 (which I am l). Not saying it is better than an M3, just different. Have I tracked my M3, for sure. Would I track a c63, I doubt it. Different cars for different purposes. But surely we can all respect and appreciate the differences between the two. But most reasonable people think the same way ......

[Spun Crankhub]

Such a beautiful car from almost every angle except from the rear, where imo its only okay. Congrats!!!

[RevNev]

We've got to understand that BMW are heavily focused on race track lap times and reliability with their M cars and this is reflected in production car racing as occurred again at the Bathurst 6 hour this year won by an M3 ZCP and the winning M4 from last year was a close 2nd. 8 out of the top 10 finishers were BMW's with an Evo Lancer in there and an HSV Commodore 10th. The Mercs entered didn't finish with mechanical failures and were way off the pace of the M3 and M4.

The point is; if you don't appreciate the negatives of daily driving an
M3/M4 that BMW built to be the fastest track cars in their class, you're probably buying the wrong car and for those people, the C63s will likely seem the better car in general. For the M3/M4 to match the comfortability of the C63s will slow the M3/M4 down and that isn't BMW's engineering intention.

I bought an M4 over a C63s because the M4 is the faster track car with more potential to be faster than the C63s potential and for that purpose BMW built the car to be, the M3/M4 is a better car than the C63s.

Anything seemingly better about the C63s doesn't lower race track lap times.

BMW are so focused on race track lap times despite the X3 M40i being a rocket of an SUV, they've built an X3M to be released later this year because the V8 Merc SUV is faster around Hockenheim and Nürburgring than the M40i, true story!

[SE7EN335]

Originally Posted by RevNev

We've got to understand that BMW are heavily focused on race track lap times and reliability with their M cars and this is reflected in production car racing as occurred again at the Bathurst 6 hour this year won by an M3 ZCP and the winning M4 from last year was a close 2nd. 8 out of the top 10 finishers were BMW's with an Evo Lancer in there and an HSV Commodore 10th. The Mercs entered didn't finish with mechanical failures and were way off the pace of the M3 and M4.

The point is; if you don't appreciate the negatives of daily driving an
M3/M4 that BMW built to be the fastest track cars in their class, you're probably buying the wrong car and for those people, the C63s will likely seem the better car in general. For the M3/M4 to match the comfortability of the C63s will slow the M3/M4 down and that isn't BMW's engineering intention.

I bought an M4 over a C63s because the M4 is the faster track car with more potential to be faster than the C63s potential and for that purpose BMW built the car to be, the M3/M4 is a better car than the C63s.

Anything seemingly better about the C63s doesn't lower race track lap times.

BMW are so focused on race track lap times despite the X3 M40i being a rocket of an SUV, they've built an X3M to be released later this year because the V8 Merc SUV is faster around Hockenheim and Nürburgring than the M40i, true story!

Exactly right!

BMW M3/4 = track and fun

C63s = Daily driver, comfort and luxury

If you wrote this sensible reply prior to all your personal attacks on the other members, it would have worked out fine and you wouldn't be shunned upon as being a douche or an A S S hole

[AUSf22]

I guess Rev came onto these boards gun blazing, hurling insults left right centre, then demanded that his opinion be respected after dishing out a lot of disrespectful comments.

[SE7EN335]

My Comparison of my 2016 F80 M3 to the Facelift C63s:

M3/4: better handling at moderate to high speeds, less body roll, stiffer chassis for the track, superior engine cooling and fueling system compared to the M177 engine (S55 can run e70 no problems, M177 struggle to run e30, M177 have overheating issues with heavy use on track), more tossable and agile, more fun, better traction, more visceral gear shifts

C63S: more comfortable, more luxurious, sounds better, better interior and materials used, better resale, more creature comforts and gadgets, better handling at low speeds, better turn in radius, superior suspension design for a daily driver, M177 is more tuneable mod for mod (except for e85), faster on a roll than a non-zcp or ZCP and the M177 has a dry sump oil system which won't have oil starvation issues on the track with high velocity turns, better brakes, smoother gear shifts

As you can see both cars have their pros and cons and everyone's preferences is different depending on individual circumstances like what they value more in their car, what their budget is etc etc.

If the 2016 C63s coupe costed the same as the 2016 F80 M3, I would have picked the C63s coupe any day of the week. But I am poor and can only afford the M3.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Very entertaining thread.

Questions.

Isn't a commodore an antiquated computer from the 80's?

Why does the C63 look like a Honda Accord from the rear end?

[MOSTRO]

I had the choice to buy the C63S (after a number of test drives back to back with Giulia QV) and went the M3 ZCP ......


This, my friends, is a completely different situation which makes my resolve weak

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by MOSTRO

I had the choice to buy the C63S (after a number of test drives back to back with Giulia QV) and went the M3 ZCP ......


This, my friends, is a completely different situation which makes my resolve weak


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/15g7150.jpg[/IMG]

I came very close to a buying a GTS.

To be honest to match the dynamic nature of an M3 you need the GTC or GTR. The GTS isn't quite there in the twisty bits. Looks amazing though

For that money I'd rather buy an M3/M4 and a lotus exige as a dedicated track car.

[AlexB7RS4]

Originally Posted by MOSTRO

I had the choice to buy the C63S (after a number of test drives back to back with Giulia QV) and went the M3 ZCP ......


This, my friends, is a completely different situation which makes my resolve weak

I'd be interested to know why you picked the M3?

[joooiiiiii]

The arguments on C63s and M3 is hilarious. I really love both cars almost equally and each one has its perks over the other. As a long-time BMW fan, I almost bought the C63S instead but it didn't come with all the great discounts I was able to get with BMW Military--so I opted for the M3. Plus the C63S screen inside was looking a little like an afterthought, which I did not like.

I'm a car guy and I really appreciate and love that exhaust note on the C63S and the exterior is looking real nice as well. I can see why everyone hates the M3 exhaust note but the performance just really overwhelms all that and I could care less, so long it doesn't sound like a little Vespa scooter or something.

OP, great purchase and I hope you are thoroughly enjoying it! Get some track time and show us what skill can do in a C63S!

[MOSTRO]

Originally Posted by AlexB7RS4

I'd be interested to know why you picked the M3?

I sold my Maserati GranSport to get a new car with Warranty. I come from a long long long history of Italian brand ownership.

The cars on my radar were fast 4 door saloons (although RS4 was quickly ruled out).

That left M3 Comp, C63S and Giulia QV.

QV was ruled out first as the dealers were not doing any deals due to the cars being newly released. A bare bones QV with no options was being offered to me at $165K on road. NO amount of nostalgia was changing my mind to consider it. Also reports of reliability issues from US market were all over the web (specifically from Track and Car publication).

C63S was next to be struck off the list as for me it felt like a very accomplished yet restrained car. Fit and finish was great. Sound was fabulous. But damn that Auto gearbox put me to sleep. I had a loan car for the weekend and took it to Reefton/Black Spur/Kinglake/Marysville......I was pulling the paddles mid corner and the car was not shifting. It was essentially making up its own mind as to when to change the gears. Now I know most of that will be due to safety aids etc, but it wrecked the experience for me.

The M3 Comp in comparison to the cars above, felt rock solid on the ground with very little roll in comparison. The steering is direct. The car has balance and poise. More toys. More adjustability. It ticked more of my boxes than any of the alternatives.