Switched to a C63

[m4chievous]

Either car are great and I think it comes down to individual taste and preference.

The dealership in my state refused to let me drive a c63s and that was on the same day my wife purchased an a45.

I was negotiating on the advertised price and wanted to see how it compared to the M4 quote I had. Didn't really work out as the dealer implied that there is no need to go for a test drive if I won't pay the advertised price and as such wouldn't be the right car for me.

I made a point of bring in the M4 when we were picking up the a45.

[joooiiiiii]

Originally Posted by m4chievous

Either car are great and I think it comes down to individual taste and preference.

The dealership in my state refused to let me drive a c63s and that was on the same day my wife purchased an a45.

I was negotiating on the advertised price and wanted to see how it compared to the M4 quote I had. Didn't really work out as the dealer implied that there is no need to go for a test drive if I won't pay the advertised price and as such wouldn't be the right car for me.

I made a point of bring in the M4 when we were picking up the a45.

I hope you peeled out as you left the lot too.

[ruley74]

Originally Posted by m4chievous

Either car are great and I think it comes down to individual taste and preference.

The dealership in my state refused to let me drive a c63s and that was on the same day my wife purchased an a45.

I was negotiating on the advertised price and wanted to see how it compared to the M4 quote I had. Didn't really work out as the dealer implied that there is no need to go for a test drive if I won't pay the advertised price and as such wouldn't be the right car for me.

I made a point of bring in the M4 when we were picking up the a45.

It's crazy isn't it. I had a similar experience be it with a lot less cash. Not long after the GSXR1000 was out in 2001 I was bike shopping after a break from riding for a couple of years. I went to the Suzuki dealer and tried to talk about price and the guy outright said show me your bank balance and indicated at the sticker price hanging off the bike.

I went around the corner and bought an R1!

[mynameisplayer]

If you spent .2c like revnev, then you'd be up to your eyeballs in 2 BMWs. You CAN compare C63 and M3/4 all you like - sure as hell ze Chermans are comaparing them - they are so close for the money you almost can't split them! Mate with a C63s coupe says the ride in my M3ZCP is "more compliant"! In line with the E63s I drove. Rough-as-guts in "soft mode". Not having a ford vs holden whinge - just IMHO.

[jjkendall]

Hahaha entertaining post but I'm thinking of switching to C63 as well from M4

[mynameisplayer]

Originally Posted by jjkendall

Hahaha entertaining post but I'm thinking of switching to C63 as well from M4

I lusted after a E90 for the V8 sound - until I drove one. Rev till 5000, and then go. No thanks. Dream rig - S63tu2 in a F80. S55 sounds good to me, S58 sound as good for future - I'm good.

[Uwish]

Originally Posted by thebatman

What's your forum username again????

thebatman...... happy to run against any mod for mod C63s.

So tune, exhaust and intake.
I have run 10.7 with more in it....

[thebatman]

Originally Posted by RevNev

The Merc V8 note is pure garbage compared to the "V8 note" you can get out of a Chev engine Commodore. The point is; the Merc may have a "V8 note", but it's a lousy V8 note that doesn't sound as good as old thong clapping 253 Holden.

old thong clapping Holden...

[thebatman]

Originally Posted by RevNev

We've got to understand that BMW are heavily focused on race track lap times and reliability with their M cars and this is reflected in production car racing as occurred again at the Bathurst 6 hour this year won by an M3 ZCP and the winning M4 from last year was a close 2nd. 8 out of the top 10 finishers were BMW's with an Evo Lancer in there and an HSV Commodore 10th. The Mercs entered didn't finish with mechanical failures and were way off the pace of the M3 and M4.

The point is; if you don't appreciate the negatives of daily driving an
M3/M4 that BMW built to be the fastest track cars in their class, you're probably buying the wrong car and for those people, the C63s will likely seem the better car in general. For the M3/M4 to match the comfortability of the C63s will slow the M3/M4 down and that isn't BMW's engineering intention.

I bought an M4 over a C63s because the M4 is the faster track car with more potential to be faster than the C63s potential and for that purpose BMW built the car to be, the M3/M4 is a better car than the C63s.

Anything seemingly better about the C63s doesn't lower race track lap times.

BMW are so focused on race track lap times despite the X3 M40i being a rocket of an SUV, they've built an X3M to be released later this year because the V8 Merc SUV is faster around Hockenheim and Nürburgring than the M40i, true story!

So you wanna compare racing between BMW and Mercs and you are using a single Shitty 6hour race in Bathurst as your argument?
How about the DTM series in Germany where the three big brands Audi,MB and BMW race with respect to each other in the same class with rules and regulations on each car where it is more transparent and unbiased?
Know how many times MERCs have dominated BMW in the same class?
Know how many times MERCS have won the series in both Drivers and Constructors championships?
Know who is currently the champion?
Compare apples with apples you arrogant flog.

BMWs are more focussed on race track lap times?
Let's see, the best BMW can do around the 'Ring' is the M4 GTS.
A large 4 door saloon that weighs more than 2 tonnes can still kick its ass (AMG GT 63s), and not even the brand new F90 M5 Comp can match that.

Oh and thats not even its fastest production car around the track!

Mercs have fast track cars alright, you're just to stupid to know it.

[thebatman]

Originally Posted by Uwish

thebatman...... happy to run against any mod for mod C63s.

So tune, exhaust and intake.
I have run 10.7 with more in it....

Okey Dokey then...

[RevNev]

You should buy a Merc batman and join their forum

[Isdonisgood]

Originally Posted by RevNev

You should buy a Merc batman and join their forum

If you use your m4 for the track mostly, you should have bought an m4CS.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by donovanluong

If you use your m4 for the track mostly, you should have bought an m4CS.

Actually on pilot sport 4S this car is awesome as a daily driver. I do it each day.

Love the car.

Both brands are great and to argue any other way isn't rational.

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by donovanluong

If you use your m4 for the track mostly, you should have bought an m4CS.

Costs a lot less to get ZCP smoking a CS on a race track. The greatest speed advantage a CS has over a ZCP are the wheels and tyres and the rest is negligible. In other words with a set of CS wheels and tyres or the equivalent fitted to a ZCP, the best driver will set the fastest lap times not the car.

[elisiX]

From what i've read, seen on various reviews, and experienced as both a ZCP (10,000KM) and CS (8500KM) owner, i'd say it's a lot more than just the wheels and tyres which make up the difference that a CS makes on the road and track. The CS is a more controllable, comfortable, fun and capable car. But what do I (and the multitude) of reviewers of the two cars know? Every amateur with a BM3 knows better because they can program a 'CS tune'.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by elisiX

From what i've read, seen on various reviews, and experienced as both a ZCP (10,000KM) and CS (8500KM) owner, i'd say it's a lot more than just the wheels and tyres which make up the difference that a CS makes on the road and track. The CS is a more controllable, comfortable, fun and capable car. But what do I (and the multitude) of reviewers of the two cars know? Every amateur with a BM3 knows better because they can program a 'CS tune'.

The M4CS is miles ahead of my M3 comp pack in almost every respect.

It's nearly perfect.

BMW nailed it with this package

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by elisiX

From what i've read, seen on various reviews, and experienced as both a ZCP (10,000KM) and CS (8500KM) owner, i'd say it's a lot more than just the wheels and tyres which make up the difference that a CS makes on the road and track. The CS is a more controllable, comfortable, fun and capable car. But what do I (and the multitude) of reviewers of the two cars know? Every amateur with a BM3 knows better because they can program a 'CS tune'.

The parts book lists the differences between a ZCP and CS. Suspension is the same other than the ZCP has a stiffer front sway bay. The engine, gearbox and all ancillaries are the same other than the CS has an oil level sensor spacer to show full with an extra 500ml. The electronics are the same aside from the CS software differences enhancing performance and the CS is slightly lighter than the ZCP. The wheels and tyres as we mentioned previously are different and other than a bit better aero on the CS, that's about it.

The CS is a better performing car than the ZCP stock, but as you can see with limited component differences, it's not overly expensive to alter a ZCP to out perform a CS. I haven't driven a CS but what I can tell you after fitting CS wheels and Cup 2 tyres to a ZCP, the ride and handling is a massive improvement over a stock ZCP.

Many who've owned a ZCP and changed to a CS and claimed they drove and handled better to my knowledge weren't running the 19/20" CS/GTS wheel combos on the ZCP's to eliminate that difference.

[elisiX]

RevNev you have clearly done some research, but you don't know everything.

Springs have also been changed on the M3 CS from ZCP to stock/base. That is in addition to the changes to the swap bars as you mentioned.

I'd agree that the tyre, wheel and overall weight reduction make the key differences to the CS's handling and comfort, though as an overall package, it smokes the ZCP.

As an overall package, without mods, it's worth every penny over the ZCP. The argument that you can mod a ZCP to a CS is pointless. I like my warranty thanks.

[drgmt]

RevNev you need to drive a CS first before really making an informed comment.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by elisiX

RevNev you have clearly done some research, but you don't know everything.

Springs have also been changed on the M3 CS from ZCP to stock/base. That is in addition to the changes to the swap bars as you mentioned.

I'd agree that the tyre, wheel and overall weight reduction make the key differences to the CS's handling and comfort, though as an overall package, it smokes the ZCP.

As an overall package, without mods, it's worth every penny over the ZCP. The argument that you can mod a ZCP to a CS is pointless. I like my warranty thanks.

It's a CS like tune anyway. Whatever that means.

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by elisiX

RevNev you have clearly done some research, but you don't know everything.

Springs have also been changed on the M3 CS from ZCP to stock/base. That is in addition to the changes to the swap bars as you mentioned.

I'd agree that the tyre, wheel and overall weight reduction make the key differences to the CS's handling and comfort, though as an overall package, it smokes the ZCP.

As an overall package, without mods, it's worth every penny over the ZCP. The argument that you can mod a ZCP to a CS is pointless. I like my warranty thanks.

Ok but an M3 isn't the ultimate performer anyway, it's an M4 and the springs and shocks are the same parts on a ZCP and CS M4. Prior to buying a ZCP M4, I did in fact cross reference component differences with the M4 CS. The CS wasn't worth money they wanted when I bought my ZCP keeping in mind that a lot of componentry is missing from the CS and should actually be cheaper.

With the components missing from the M4 CS and the extras it has over the ZCP, they should be about the same price not 48k more expensive than the ZCP as they were when I bought mine.

Not sure how warranty's an issue altering a ZCP to CS specs? The wheels and tyres are an M Performance option for an M4. The CS spoilers aren't an issue as they're genuine BMW parts to suit an M4. Fitting a CS/GTS bonnet if you wanted won't void warranty, again a genuine BMW part to fit an M3/M4.

Flashing software and coding in Australia is complete nonsense that it'll void warranty and I'll tell you why. The dealer is responsible for warranty under Australian Consumer Law, nothing to do with the warranty deal the dealer has with BMW. Unless flashing software and coding voiding warranty is stipulated on the purchase contract, BMW can void what they like with the dealer, but the dealer can't void a consumer's warranty. This is not the USA, our consumer law in relation to cars is completely different.

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by drgmt

RevNev you need to drive a CS first before really making an informed comment.

There's no doubt that the CS drives and performs better than a ZCP comparing the two "stock" models. However a comparison of the mechanical and electrical differences tells us why the CS is better than the ZCP "stock". As we've discovered with the M4, there's not a whole lot of differences and as I mentioned, the CS was 48k more than what I paid for my ZCP and 48k spent on a ZCP buys some serious performance gains a stock CS won't match.

I believe you got a killer deal on your CS but when I bought my ZCP, a CS was 48k more and that was the best quote at the time.