Equal-length exhaust discussion: new S55 sounds

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Tuning out burbles is definitely the way to go with EL IMO - I find that burbles actually mask / distract from the sound. And it sounds so good that I wouldn’t want to take away from that experience. The sharp pop when shifting under load is just a characteristic of S55, but with burbles off it sounds much more in place since it’s one of the few pops you will get.

For sure, burbs and EL aren't a thing...at all.

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by nv_f82

For sure, burbs and EL aren't a thing...at all.

+1
Burbs should never be a thing. Ever.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by nv_f82

I mean, the stock downpipes are technically 'hi flow' cats but my tuner and I are working on a Flex tune and I have upgraded turbos and he was really against the idea, even with an aftermarket option and basically brought me back to reality and highlighted the fact that I'm chasing 'rice' and I need to get my sh*t together.

Gotcha, didn’t realize you were also on upgraded turbos!

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Gotcha, didn’t realize you were also on upgraded turbos!

Yeah, 'stage 2' and they just love the free breathing, cat-less piping.

[johnso21]

Originally Posted by six75LT

got mine installed today. sounds so damn good. stock dp + non res EL + remus. painful wait as i ordered in march but it really is like a new car right now

cant wait. I bought the exact same setup... stock DP, none res AA EL mid and remus...AA EL should be here thursday but the Remus...ugh...said it wont be in for a while.

Congrats, excited for you, excited for me!

[Soul Coughing]

Have any of your guys had any issues trying to access the bolts on the belly pan right by the exhaust hangar mount? I'm just wondering if my mid pipe is too close to the side. Also how tight did you make the bolts on the connection between the DP's and the Midpipe?

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by Soul Coughing

Have any of your guys had any issues trying to access the bolts on the belly pan right by the exhaust hangar mount? I'm just wondering if my mid pipe is too close to the side. Also how tight did you make the bolts on the connection between the DP's and the Midpipe?

Yep, it sits really close to the side, rattles even if you don't adjust and adjust and adjust it (front to back) perfectly. Torque specs don't really matter when it comes to these types of clamps but obviously use the visual aid to ensure they're not bent/kinked. You'll generally 'hit a wall' when tightening them up which should indicate you're good to go.

[Soul Coughing]

Originally Posted by nv_f82

Yep, it sits really close to the side, rattles even if you don't adjust and adjust and adjust it (front to back) perfectly. Torque specs don't really matter when it comes to these types of clamps but obviously use the visual aid to ensure they're not bent/kinked. You'll generally 'hit a wall' when tightening them up which should indicate you're good to go.

Gotcha, thanks! Ok, so its 'designed' that way then! I guess I'd need to take off the midpipe, then bolt up the belly pan, and then reinstall the midpipe if i wanted to get those bolts on and do the opposite if I wanted to change the transmission fluid or do any service to that area...

The reason I asked about the torque was if I didn't fully tighten them, I could move the midpipe nearer to the centerline of the exhaust shield area, but then there would be some flex to the connection. On other donut style exhaust connections, there was inherent flex to it, which would allow you to have a little bit of adjustability, but with this, once you tighten it down, there is no real movement to the system at all.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by Soul Coughing

Gotcha, thanks! Ok, so its 'designed' that way then! I guess I'd need to take off the midpipe, then bolt up the belly pan, and then reinstall the midpipe if i wanted to get those bolts on and do the opposite if I wanted to change the transmission fluid or do any service to that area...

The reason I asked about the torque was if I didn't fully tighten them, I could move the midpipe nearer to the centerline of the exhaust shield area, but then there would be some flex to the connection. On other donut style exhaust connections, there was inherent flex to it, which would allow you to have a little bit of adjustability, but with this, once you tighten it down, there is no real movement to the system at all.

Yup, I learned that the hard way and had to drop the pipe to get that bolt in the belly pan. A part of me was just thinking f-it, it has enough bolts holding it in place...but the OCD in me wouldn't let that happen.

Ultimately loosening it up (entirely) and tightening it in sequence from the downpipes to the mufflers is the only way to get this perfect. Even then you will probably have to shim your active f brace, regardless of it's additional clearance. I ended up just buying 2mm stainless spacers (washers) and matching bolts (M8x-1.25 x 30mm) with additional length to eat up the shim space but maintain a solid bite into the thread holes.

[Slo_F80_Mike]

Welp just got an email today saying my midpipe is delayed till early to mid September. Ordered late June, guess I didn't make the cut for the last batch that shipped out

Edit: weird that they just sent tracking number after saying that same day lol, but I'm not complaining.

[BYT_M4C]

Originally Posted by Soul Coughing

I had some time this weekend to get the mid pipe installed. Here's my take on it all.

Installation went alright. I got the downpipe connections off without any fuss, and while I was in there, decided to install the Turner shifter bushing. So I removed the transmission cover, and the upper exhaust shield to access the shifter bushing. That all went smoothly, but left the transmission cover off until the end so that I had more space to make adjustments. I tightened up the new mid pipe to the downpipe as per the instructions, and found that the mid-pipe wanted to be almost right up against the exhaust shield on the side with the straight pipe. I undid the downpipe to mid-pipe bolts again, and tried to move the pipe to the centerline part of the exhaust shield area, but it just wanted to move over to the one side again. So I just left it like that, and continued with the rest of the installation.

I had cut off the rear exhaust 1.5 inches from the welds already (as per the instructions), and started to adjust the rear parts of the mid-pipe (non resonated) and found that I couldn't get the pipes to fit with the stock exhaust, so I had to go back and cut off .25 of an inch of the pipe on the drivers side so that I could get the non-resonated pipes to actually fit the pipes without it pushing the stock exhaust up against the bumper cover. I also added a washer in-between the body, and the AA cross brace to give a little bit more space, but interestingly the clearance issues were between the mid pipe and the exhaust shield above it, and on the side with the straight pipe. Once I lined everything up, I tightened all the bolts, and removed the little spacer they give you but had clearance issues above the exhaust and on the side. I had to bend back the exhaust shield on both sides, and that seemed to give me enough clearance. When I went to install the transmission cover, i could not reach the bolts that hold the metal part of the shield to the frame - right by the transmission exhaust mount - because the pipes were right in front of it. I couldn't snake the bolt from the top of the exhaust pipe, or from the side, as there was no clearance, so for now I just left it. Hopefully there's no vibrations from the cover as its loose on that side.

I started the car, and didn't find any big leaks at the connections - I did get a bunch of condensation leaking from the rear connection at the stock exhaust, and the ball joints. Also, I found a bunch of little pinhole leaks in the welds where they didn't have enough penetration that were leaking exhaust. I didn't get any vibrations from the mid-pipe rattling or hitting anything.

Sound: The car sounds so much better! It sounds like a true inline-6 engine, a bit of a 2JZ mixed with something a little more exotic. I get no rasp like some of the other owners were talking about, it just sounds good! With the non resonated mid-pipe, stock downpipes and ZCP muffler it is probably 25-30% louder with the flaps open. Cold start is louder, but it sounds better. The stock ZCP tuned burbles are now almost too loud and obnoxious. I can hear actual little explosions now at low RPMs; when i do a redline shift, the pops and blowoff 'fart' noise is really loud and will make everyone turn and look at you. For my small town, where I'd like to keep a little bit of respect, I probably can't keep it in sport mode when I'm just cruising due to how much louder my stock ZCP burbles are, and I definitely can't do any redline shifts in sports or sports+ due to the pops and bangs. If I was a little younger and didn't have to see my neighbors on a regular basis, it would be perfect, but I am probably going to weld in some resonators to make it a little quieter.

TL;DR:
Pros: Sound - it is awesome; it sounds so good and is everything I thought it would be!

Cons: Probably too loud for an old fogey like me - non-resonated setup
build quality isn't great - pinhole leaks in welds
installation error? - had to bend back exhaust shields, couldn't access bolts that had been accessible before

Get used to those ball/socket connections leaking, it will not stop. No matter which way you adjust them, re-tighten the clamps etc... they will leak where the gap in the clamp is no matter the positioning. Ive talked with AA a bit when I first installed my single midpipe and they didn't have an answer that solved this issue. If you are driving along concrete dividers you can hear it "ticking" thru that leak, its also bad on cold starts if you step out of your car while its warming up. It's annoying enough that I just bought a Akra Titanium DP back exhaust to get rid of the ball/socket connections. I do love the sound of the single mid (haven't heard the Akra yet, it comes tomorrow) but the leaking at those connections and the annoying sounds that come with it drove me to buy something else and not even try the EL midpipe (because they have those same connections).

Single mid FS btw lol...

Edit: AA suggested that overtime, with carbon build up, they should seal up. Its a year later, still the same leak...

[six75LT]

Originally Posted by JamesGames

+1
Burbs should never be a thing. Ever.

i used to not mind burbles on the stock ZCP exhaust because they werent too loud and had a deep tone, but now with the EL they are just wild. and plus id much rather hear the engine noise with the EL. i find myself driving in efficient mode (valves open though) more than sport plus now. cant tune so unfortunately stuck with this but pretty sure there is some downside to being in efficient mode

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by six75LT

i used to not mind burbles on the stock ZCP exhaust because they werent too loud and had a deep tone, but now with the EL they are just wild. and plus id much rather hear the engine noise with the EL. i find myself driving in efficient mode (valves open though) more than sport plus now. cant tune so unfortunately stuck with this but pretty sure there is some downside to being in efficient mode

No downside other than the throttle tip in is “lazier”. FWIW I run canyons and have hit the track on efficient throttle, gives you more throttle modulation. Around town I do use sport just for a little more pick up for slow town driving, but honestly you just dig into the pedal a little more and you get used to it quickly. Sport+ has extra cooling from the auxiliary radiators all the time, but those get turned on regardless of mode once you’re running hot

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

No downside other than the throttle tip in is “lazier”. FWIW I run canyons and have hit the track on efficient throttle, gives you more throttle modulation. Around town I do use sport just for a little more pick up for slow town driving, but honestly you just dig into the pedal a little more and you get used to it quickly. Sport+ has extra cooling from the auxiliary radiators all the time, but those get turned on regardless of mode once you’re running hot

Little bit more than that. In Sport / Sport + the coolant temp / oil temperatures run lower and the boost is held longer / overrun is more aggressive to maintain boost. Try running an onboard OBD reader and you'll see what I mean. But yes pretty negligible for street driving IMO.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by JamesGames

Little bit more than that. In Sport / Sport + the coolant temp / oil temperatures run lower and the boost is held longer / overrun is more aggressive to maintain boost. Try running an onboard OBD reader and you'll see what I mean. But yes pretty negligible for street driving IMO.

Yeah I would say that on both street or track the differences are negligible with the correct foot modulation and depending on your personal driving style, efficient can actually be a better throttle mode to be in especially with all the torque & response of S55

Edit: talking about performance not feel

[Soul Coughing]

Originally Posted by BYT_M4C

Get used to those ball/socket connections leaking, it will not stop. No matter which way you adjust them, re-tighten the clamps etc... they will leak where the gap in the clamp is no matter the positioning. Ive talked with AA a bit when I first installed my single midpipe and they didn't have an answer that solved this issue. If you are driving along concrete dividers you can hear it "ticking" thru that leak, its also bad on cold starts if you step out of your car while its warming up. It's annoying enough that I just bought a Akra Titanium DP back exhaust to get rid of the ball/socket connections. I do love the sound of the single mid (haven't heard the Akra yet, it comes tomorrow) but the leaking at those connections and the annoying sounds that come with it drove me to buy something else and not even try the EL midpipe (because they have those same connections).

Single mid FS btw lol...

Edit: AA suggested that overtime, with carbon build up, they should seal up. Its a year later, still the same leak...

Hmm, ok, thanks for the info. I guess the end game would be to just weld those pieces together. I'll probably have to TIG some of the welds that are leaking anyway.

[Soul Coughing]

Originally Posted by nv_f82

Yup, I learned that the hard way and had to drop the pipe to get that bolt in the belly pan. A part of me was just thinking f-it, it has enough bolts holding it in place...but the OCD in me wouldn't let that happen.

Ultimately loosening it up (entirely) and tightening it in sequence from the downpipes to the mufflers is the only way to get this perfect. Even then you will probably have to shim your active f brace, regardless of it's additional clearance. I ended up just buying 2mm stainless spacers (washers) and matching bolts (M8x-1.25 x 30mm) with additional length to eat up the shim space but maintain a solid bite into the thread holes.

Yeah, I'm going to have to do that as I'm currently driving around without them in. I saw in another post that you dynoed the car and found it to make less power? Do you know how much less it made?

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by Soul Coughing

Yeah, I'm going to have to do that as I'm currently driving around without them in. I saw in another post that you dynoed the car and found it to make less power? Do you know how much less it made?

That's correct. My car was originally tuned using the single midpipe and I really didn't think it would have that much impact but the numbers don't lie. The largest gap in difference was 23whp lowest was 11 or 14 I can't remember but one of those numbers. Torque curve spiked a bit sooner than previously. I'm sure this is due to the smaller pipes and resonated restriction factors.

If you read their description, they're pretty much telling us that this is going to cut your HP and give you some torque:

• Lighter weight than factory system
• Quicker turbo spool
• Increased low end and mid-range power
• Equal length design eliminates the pulsing sound caused by the unequal length down pipes

[Soul Coughing]

Just to give an update on the car as I've been driving it every day this week: The car still sounds good going through the rev range! The issue and something I didn't realize when I first wrote my review is that there is A LOT of rasp when the engine is cold and I turn it to Sport or Sport+ and rev it or drive the car. It is a lot worse than the stock mid pipe when I start it up and just start driving. I basically cannot drive it in sport with a cold engine or it sounds like my an old civic with a too large exhaust. If I let the car sit for 2-3 minutes, there is not nearly as much rasp.

[Soul Coughing]

Here are a few videos I made of the exhaust. First is a cold start in efficient mode and the second is with the exhaust warmed up in Sport mode. Third is in Sport+ and the fourth is in Efficient Mode. I will try to get a cold start video of the car with the flaps open to show how bad it sounds.

The EL midpipe is the only modification I have to the car. It is a stock 2017 F80 with OEM downpipes, OEM ZCP back exhaust and no modifications to the tune.

Cold Start in Efficient
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiCSi9Hmp0U

Warm engine in Sport .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu3A4G9s2s0

Warm Engine in Sport +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD0rnB9iI90

Warm Engine in Efficient
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laRitoFB670

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by Soul Coughing

Here are a few videos I made of the exhaust. First is a cold start in efficient mode and the second is with the exhaust warmed up in Sport mode. Third is in Sport+ and the fourth is in Efficient Mode. I will try to get a cold start video of the car with the flaps open to show how bad it sounds.

The EL midpipe is the only modification I have to the car. It is a stock 2017 F80 with OEM downpipes, OEM ZCP back exhaust and no modifications to the tune.

Cold Start in Efficient
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiCSi9Hmp0U

Warm engine in Sport .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu3A4G9s2s0

Warm Engine in Sport +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD0rnB9iI90

Warm Engine in Efficient
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laRitoFB670

Nice. I honestly love the way it sounds in efficient-it's buttery smooth. The stock catted hi-flow downpipes make all the difference.

[BYT_M4C]

Originally Posted by Soul Coughing

Hmm, ok, thanks for the info. I guess the end game would be to just weld those pieces together. I'll probably have to TIG some of the welds that are leaking anyway.

I had the car on my lift last night to swap the exhaust after picking up the new Akra. Where the gaps in the clamps were, there's carbon/soot blown down the pipes in both directions. Def wasn't sealing completely, and even after a year, the "buildup of carbon" never sealed the gap despite their claim that it would. Pretty disappointing for an almost $1,000 midpipe to have never been right from the start!