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      10-25-2019, 10:40 AM   #1
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Turn 3 @ Lime Rock Park - Racing Line

This is the one corner that everyone seems to have the largest variation from driver the driver. The most common strategy that I see is a late apex then track out to the middle and moving left for turn 4. I want to give this another shot but I typically find myself taking that apex extra-late and ending up on the left side of the track to get the best apex possible for 4. Any opinions? Preferences?
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      10-27-2019, 02:28 PM   #2
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I find LRP to be kind of like the blues, easy to learn but difficult to master. It's only got 7 turns but most are very fast and tricky. I was just at LRP yesterday with SCDA and was talking to some of the other guys about this turn as I take a different line from most HPDE guys.

People seem to have most difficulty with the line in turn 3, the left hander, and the uphill but people also don't realise the speed possible through west bend and the downhill. Anyways, with the left hander, regardless of the line you take, the key is to setup your exit so that you can maximize the speed you can take the following right hander on to No Name Straight.

The school line is to get to the right side of the track at turn in to 3 and brake late and turn in late and slowly towards the late apex. This is the safest way around 3 as it is the largest radius line. This is what most HPDE drivers are taught and what they drive. It's not the fastest, though, as it is a longer path through the turn and doesn't take advantage of the camber on the left side of the track.

If you watch youtube a professional race or some truly fast guys at LRP, they take the shortest line through 3, almost a double apex. Also, not just to drive defensively as they do this during qualifying as well. Stay mostly left exiting two, about a car's width from the edge of the track. Gentle turn in to apex early, brake in a straight line, let the car come out again before turning in again for the true apex. The goal is the same in terms of setting yourself up for the right hander, but to also take advantage of the camber and shorter distance.

if that was difficult to visualize, just watch the below vid:

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      10-27-2019, 02:45 PM   #3
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in that video he says to get back onto the right yet stays left going into 3.
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      10-27-2019, 07:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvas View Post
I find LRP to be kind of like the blues, easy to learn but difficult to master. It's only got 7 turns but most are very fast and tricky. I was just at LRP yesterday with SCDA and was talking to some of the other guys about this turn as I take a different line from most HPDE guys.

People seem to have most difficulty with the line in turn 3, the left hander, and the uphill but people also don't realise the speed possible through west bend and the downhill. Anyways, with the left hander, regardless of the line you take, the key is to setup your exit so that you can maximize the speed you can take the following right hander on to No Name Straight.

The school line is to get to the right side of the track at turn in to 3 and brake late and turn in late and slowly towards the late apex. This is the safest way around 3 as it is the largest radius line. This is what most HPDE drivers are taught and what they drive. It's not the fastest, though, as it is a longer path through the turn and doesn't take advantage of the camber on the left side of the track.

If you watch youtube a professional race or some truly fast guys at LRP, they take the shortest line through 3, almost a double apex. Also, not just to drive defensively as they do this during qualifying as well. Stay mostly left exiting two, about a car's width from the edge of the track. Gentle turn in to apex early, brake in a straight line, let the car come out again before turning in again for the true apex. The goal is the same in terms of setting yourself up for the right hander, but to also take advantage of the camber and shorter distance.

if that was difficult to visualize, just watch the below vid:

Ahhh, I was there too. Would have picked your brain if I knew!
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      10-27-2019, 09:23 PM   #5
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dvas



Here's the line I was taking yesterday. If it isn't obvious, my tires expired at WGI earlier this month lol.
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      10-28-2019, 02:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
dvas



Here's the line I was taking yesterday. If it isn't obvious, my tires expired at WGI earlier this month lol.
Nice driving and sliding. Good lap time too, especially on spent Nittos.

Obviously, as per above conversation, our lines through 3 are different. I think you also have a little more speed available in the uphill, west bend and the downhill. For the uphill, I try to brake at the curbs on the left. A quick hard squeeze and then an early and shallow turn in. You should be pointed at the white line on the left. At compression, you can add a little more steering input to straighten out the car, and obviously hands straight at the crest. If I get it right, my minimum mph there is around 82. For me West bend and the downhill requires really smooth and gentle steering inputs to keep the momentum up. Minimum speeds about 80 and 90, respectively. My vid below.



BTW, is your speedo accurate in the vid? Your car accelerates like crazy. I'm nowhere near those speeds on the straights.
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      10-28-2019, 06:16 PM   #7
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Been going to LRP for years but I'm far from a fast driver (1:04s) I try apexing late, early etc, still to this day trying to find the perfect line. I was just up there this past weekend. You guys are going vastly quicker down no name (and everywhere else for that matter) as I. With that said I keep MDM on as I don't just trust myself without it on this track, That other white M3 had TC off in INT1, lifted at the crest at the uphill and hit the wall .

I talked to you briefly @NYG with your friends who had the ZL1 and GT350. The weather was fantastic.


Last edited by ctgeorge; 10-28-2019 at 11:21 PM..
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      10-28-2019, 09:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvas View Post
Nice driving and sliding. Good lap time too, especially on spent Nittos.

Obviously, as per above conversation, our lines through 3 are different. I think you also have a little more speed available in the uphill, west bend and the downhill. For the uphill, I try to brake at the curbs on the left. A quick hard squeeze and then an early and shallow turn in. You should be pointed at the white line on the left. At compression, you can add a little more steering input to straighten out the car, and obviously hands straight at the crest. If I get it right, my minimum mph there is around 82. For me West bend and the downhill requires really smooth and gentle steering inputs to keep the momentum up. Minimum speeds about 80 and 90, respectively. My vid below.



BTW, is your speedo accurate in the vid? Your car accelerates like crazy. I'm nowhere near those speeds on the straights.
0:59.9.... I think I remember seeing this in the lap times thread. Incredible driving man!! I'm going to study your video if you don't mind.

Yeah, I'm using an XGPS160A. The car definitely moves. I got the car 154 mph in the back straight of the Glen on some of my slower laps.

Are you going November 9th?
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      10-28-2019, 09:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctgeorge View Post
Been going to LRP for years but I'm far from a fast driver (1:04s) I try apexing late, early etc, still to this day trying to find the perfect line. I was just up there this past weekend. You guys are going vastly quicker down no name as I. With that said I keep MDM on as I don't just trust myself without it on this track, That other white M3 had TC off in INT1, lifted at the crest at the uphill and hit the wall .

I talked to you briefly @NYG with your friends who had the ZL1 and GT350. The weather was fantastic.

I remember, it was a pleasure meeting you! I'm with dvas, the track is easy at first glance but it gets real technical in the details.

Great driving! Are you using a Waylens?
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      10-28-2019, 11:20 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by NYG View Post
I remember, it was a pleasure meeting you! I'm with dvas, the track is easy at first glance but it gets real technical in the details.

Great driving! Are you using a Waylens?
Thanks. Nice meeting you as well. (LOVE your CS!)

Yep, it's a Waylens. Kinda have a love-hate relationship with it. I had issues on Saturday with the internal GPS so it didn't record lap times.
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      10-29-2019, 11:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctgeorge View Post
Thanks. Nice meeting you as well. (LOVE your CS!)

Yep, it's a Waylens. Kinda have a love-hate relationship with it. I had issues on Saturday with the internal GPS so it didn't record lap times.
Thanks for the heads up, I was thinking of getting one. Love the overlays.
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      10-29-2019, 12:20 PM   #12
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here are 2 of my fast laps(59's) from Lime Rock earlier this month. I was there with dvas and we were posting quite similar times. I also agree with most of his comments regarding turn 3 in this thread. I tend to take a tighter(racers) line as well and I have a racing background.

My car is my DD so its a bit of a street/track compromise. I had federal 200tw tires in these vids. Eibach front springs, and ferodo ds2500 front pads. Everything else suspension/braking wise is stock. While not much of a factor at a momentum track like lime rock, I do have downpipes and a mild engine tune.

You'll notice in my second video that I was overdriving the car and pushing a but too hard fighting for traction. This was also later in the session so the tires had gotten a bit greasy. This was a 59.6 lap. For my first vid attached harrys did not record the lap(smh) but I feel it was faster and likely a low 59. After reviewing video, these are far from perfect laps and 58's are definitely doable with this platform.
https://youtu.be/YFd-CPGA5-U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HmbA4W-aSQ
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      10-29-2019, 12:39 PM   #13
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The sole purpose of the left hander is to set up your entry onto no name straight. It's the slowest corner on the track... not a lot to be gained. Unless you position your car to get the best acceleration through the right hander onto the straight. Think the exit of the left hander IS the entry to no name.
As it's a flat corner I generally give a light lift mid corner to help bring the back around and get the car parallel with the white line on drivers left. If you over drive it (as many do) the car will be too far right to get an effective run on the straight. (can easily cost you a sec in these cars.)
On a side note a friend that does a lot of data analysis recently showed that thru west bend and the downhill that the majority of the well driven lower horsepower cars were significantly quicker than the higher horsepower cars. I chalk some of that up to weight but I digress.
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      10-29-2019, 12:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
0:59.9.... I think I remember seeing this in the lap times thread. Incredible driving man!! I'm going to study your video if you don't mind.

Yeah, I'm using an XGPS160A. The car definitely moves. I got the car 154 mph in the back straight of the Glen on some of my slower laps.

Are you going November 9th?
Thanks. I'm considering it as I have possibly one more day left in the tires. But last year at this event it was really cold...If you see a gray M2 with a red number 38 on the rear windows, that's me.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyM5 View Post
here are 2 of my fast laps(59's) from Lime Rock earlier this month. I was there with dvas and we were posting quite similar times. I also agree with most of his comments regarding turn 3 in this thread. I tend to take a tighter(racers) line as well and I have a racing background.

My car is my DD so its a bit of a street/track compromise. I had federal 200tw tires in these vids. Eibach front springs, and ferodo ds2500 front pads. Everything else suspension/braking wise is stock. While not much of a factor at a momentum track like lime rock, I do have downpipes and a mild engine tune.

You'll notice in my second video that I was overdriving the car and pushing a but too hard fighting for traction. This was also later in the session so the tires had gotten a bit greasy. This was a 59.6 lap. For my first vid attached harrys did not record the lap(smh) but I feel it was faster and likely a low 59. After reviewing video, these are far from perfect laps and 58's are definitely doable with this platform.
https://youtu.be/YFd-CPGA5-U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HmbA4W-aSQ
Nice driving, Manny. And thanks for sharing the vids. You really keep that car on the edge through all the turns. You had a good half second on me that day.
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      10-29-2019, 01:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyM5 View Post
here are 2 of my fast laps(59's) from Lime Rock earlier this month. I was there with dvas and we were posting quite similar times. I also agree with most of his comments regarding turn 3 in this thread. I tend to take a tighter(racers) line as well and I have a racing background.

My car is my DD so its a bit of a street/track compromise. I had federal 200tw tires in these vids. Eibach front springs, and ferodo ds2500 front pads. Everything else suspension/braking wise is stock. While not much of a factor at a momentum track like lime rock, I do have downpipes and a mild engine tune.

You'll notice in my second video that I was overdriving the car and pushing a but too hard fighting for traction. This was also later in the session so the tires had gotten a bit greasy. This was a 59.6 lap. For my first vid attached harrys did not record the lap(smh) but I feel it was faster and likely a low 59. After reviewing video, these are far from perfect laps and 58's are definitely doable with this platform.
https://youtu.be/YFd-CPGA5-U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HmbA4W-aSQ
Very impressive, thanks for the study material!
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      10-29-2019, 06:50 PM   #16
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Not that I am going to get a chance to drive at this track anytime soon, but i could see having a video thread for each track to share the information like going on here would be great resource. I know they are in the Laptimes thread, but would be nice to have consolidated based on track.
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      11-05-2019, 01:05 PM   #17
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^ Check out Racers360 on YouTube it's been super helpful in helping extract time from each corner around a track. The coaches give some great advice that I try to keep in my head as I'm putting a lap together.
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