M3/M4 vs. Tesla Model 3 Performance

[doberzus]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

EDIT: dobs, can X3M be adjusted with more front camber so it can be tracked? Or will it toast front tires really quickly

Hmm, not too sure about that TBH. I am sure you can play with it.

I womnder how drastic the G80 M3 will be compared to the X3M. That S58 is a freak, though. I can only imagine what it can do with a 700lb diet.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by turboawdfanatic

My wife has never driven my cars because they’ve all been manual. that and she knows if something were to happen she’d never hear the end of it lol. But if I can get her to drive my performance model 3....maybe she’ll want to keep it and I can get the g80 m3 awd if/when it comes out. Then I can have best of both worlds.

Yea I think a lot of people here are missing the point. It's not M3 vs Model 3 Performance. It's M3 AND Model 3 Performance

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by NUTScapes

Yea I think a lot of people here are missing the point. It's not M3 vs Model 3 Performance. It's M3 AND Model 3 Performance

My $0.02, got to get a 2 seater or 2+2 sports car or tow vehicle to pair with model 3.

2x Sedan based street cars a bit too similar

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

...2x Sedan based street cars a bit too similar

Everyone's needs are different, but this is the reason the wife drives a mid-sized SUV and I drive a sedan. Preferences+practicality.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Everyone's needs are different, but this is the reason the wife drives a mid-sized SUV and I drive a sedan. Preferences+practicality.

I was really interested in getting a first gen Tesla Roadster to basically be a street only sports car daily driver, but the more I dug in, it was too much of a science experiment and I ended up with model 3P

If someone comes out with a 2 seater with lower weight and similar performance specs and driver aids, I would really think about switching out model 3P for that.

Or even a cheaper and lighter version with lesser straight line punch would be something I’d consider. A 2800lb car (similar weight to my old spark EV) with 2 seats and 300hp + 400 ft lb instant torque with RWD and a bit of aero would be so amazing.

I love the low seating position a LOT. It helps me to think the drive is more “special” when I climb down into a ground up sports car, versus the feeling of climbing up into a sedan

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

Yes it does fall off hard on its way to top speed but its a very smooth transition. It feels like a tuned m3 below 100 and a stock 340 above. You stop feeling that roller coaster feeling around 70 mph. The throttle response is what has me hooked. Its also not dead silent the motors do make a satisfying hum when wot. I do wish it was louder even if its fake like the taycan.

Good input - I can definitely appreciate the allure of the instant response, particularly when compared to a turbo motor.

That said, for me, the F8X is sooooo fun because it really starts coming alive around 50mph and has LOADS of oomph anywhere north of that. If I'm cruising at 70mph and stuff it the thing is a rocket.

If the Tesla starts falling off at 70 I"m not sure it would satisfy me. From what I'm gathering, it sounds like the Tesla is SO FAST from 0-70 that it gains such an advantage, by that point, that even though it start falling off hard, other cars that are much faster from 70mph need a lot of ground to "catch" it. In other words, the Tesla's advantage is in the slower speeds and it's advantage there is so big that in the real world no other car has the room to catch it even though the other car may be much more powerful at mid/higher speeds.

No?

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Eric, my old 911 traps in the 125mph range, has hydraulic steering, great exhaust sound from aftermarket race cats and exhaust , cup 2 tires, and 33xx lb weight.

It’s almost always on a trickle charger due to model 3P being so fun on public roads.

YMMV, and EV are here to stay so don’t rush into it. The EV will just keep getting faster better and cheaper.

Yep, sounds fun and point noted about EVs only getting better. But - the F8X is also MEGA fun on public roads with a ton of extra overhead. It's also crazy fun in the canyons. Is the M3P really more fun? In the canyons?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Yep, sounds fun and point noted about EVs only getting better. But - the F8X is also MEGA fun on public roads with a ton of extra overhead. It's also crazy fun in the canyons. Is the M3P really more fun? In the canyons?

Where are you located? Let’s go to a track day, get HPDE insurance for both our cars and find out.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Where are you located? Let’s go to a track day, get HPDE insurance for both our cars and find out.

Eh, I'm not interested in an ego contest here.

I'm interested in a thoughtful, candid conversation about how the two cars compare to each other from a driving experience standpoint. Actual, objective performance is secondary. It's clear that in an all out sprint from very low speeds the M3P will best the F8X. That's of no interest to me at 43 years old because I never race people.

What I'm trying to understand is how the overall M3P package delivers, in the real world, compared to the F80. Precision, response, handling, power (at all speeds), etc. etc.

Also - I'm assuming the M3P has no transmission, eh? So road speed and the power curve are tightly coupled. A transmission allows you to, for a given road speed, experience all major sections of the power curve. For example, at 70mph you can be in 3rd and wind out hte top end, or be in 4th and live in the fat midrange or be in 5th and experience the sharp torque rise.

Describe how this is different in an EV.

[stevehifi]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Eh, I'm not interested in an ego contest here.

I'm interested in a thoughtful, candid conversation about how the two cars compare to each other from a driving experience standpoint. Actual, objective performance is secondary. It's clear that in an all out sprint from very low speeds the M3P will best the F8X. That's of no interest to me at 43 years old because I never race people.

What I'm trying to understand is how the overall M3P package delivers, in the real world, compared to the F80. Precision, response, handling, power (at all speeds), etc. etc.

Also - I'm assuming the M3P has no transmission, eh? So road speed and the power curve are tightly coupled. A transmission allows you to, for a given road speed, experience all major sections of the power curve. For example, at 70mph you can be in 3rd and wind out hte top end, or be in 4th and live in the fat midrange or be in 5th and experience the sharp torque rise.

Describe how this is different in an EV.

In real world on a daily driver basis here is how the two cars compare:

F80:
-more focused driver's interior, S55 engine sound, better handling, lighter
and more agile.

M3P:
-crazy off line acceleration, softer suspension (more body roll), quiet 'IKEA'
like interior, electric go-kart handling/steering feel.

If you don't care about how the car looks, ok with a minimalist interior and
just want to have a fun all around zippy car get the Tesla.

If you want a more focused good looking driver's car that goes beyond the
day to day driving antics, go with the M3.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Eh, I'm not interested in an ego contest here.

I'm interested in a thoughtful, candid conversation about how the two cars compare to each other from a driving experience standpoint. Actual, objective performance is secondary. It's clear that in an all out sprint from very low speeds the M3P will best the F8X. That's of no interest to me at 43 years old because I never race people.

What I'm trying to understand is how the overall M3P package delivers, in the real world, compared to the F80. Precision, response, handling, power (at all speeds), etc. etc.

Also - I'm assuming the M3P has no transmission, eh? So road speed and the power curve are tightly coupled. A transmission allows you to, for a given road speed, experience all major sections of the power curve. For example, at 70mph you can be in 3rd and wind out hte top end, or be in 4th and live in the fat midrange or be in 5th and experience the sharp torque rise.

Describe how this is different in an EV.

Hi Eric, HPDE insurance was actually so you could drive my car at a track and find out for yourself.

Looks like you misunderstood me.

Edit: stevehifi, do you own a performance Tesla these days? It has been a while since we posted in the same thread, and I thought you had an f10 535?

[SflBimmer8484]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Good input - I can definitely appreciate the allure of the instant response, particularly when compared to a turbo motor.

That said, for me, the F8X is sooooo fun because it really starts coming alive around 50mph and has LOADS of oomph anywhere north of that. If I'm cruising at 70mph and stuff it the thing is a rocket.

If the Tesla starts falling off at 70 I"m not sure it would satisfy me. From what I'm gathering, it sounds like the Tesla is SO FAST from 0-70 that it gains such an advantage, by that point, that even though it start falling off hard, other cars that are much faster from 70mph need a lot of ground to "catch" it. In other words, the Tesla's advantage is in the slower speeds and it's advantage there is so big that in the real world no other car has the room to catch it even though the other car may be much more powerful at mid/higher speeds.

No?



Yep, sounds fun and point noted about EVs only getting better. But - the F8X is also MEGA fun on public roads with a ton of extra overhead. It's also crazy fun in the canyons. Is the M3P really more fun? In the canyons?

Im in the same boat and you're exactly on point with your concerns. Im going to miss the F80 and honestly I would never get rid of it but its a lease which ends in December. The buy out is way to high and my only option is a m340 in December. After driving a m340 my decision was very easy and I leased the M3p. At the end of the day the Tesla does everything I want and more and the only disadvantage will be losing is the ability to pull like a freight train after 100 mph. 90% of my commute is the highway and that is where most of my 60-130 friendly races do happen. ( I will miss this very much).

[nicknaz]

Hey all, software 2019.36 installed on my car last night and I wanted to mention that the “5% power increase” is noticeable from a dig, especially around 40-60 mph

My best unscientific description is that it’s like the increase in power you get from when your battery goes from 70% to 90%

I’m sure others will start to do some 60-130 pulls. It isn’t easy for me with the traffic patterns here in NorCal.

The other features (automatic navigation, schedule departure) aren’t super exciting. The “one pedal driving” mode is interesting and I’m trying it out, but my initially impression is that I prefer the “roll” option that was the previous default choice (especially for repositioning my car on my slightly sloped driveway)

Pretty cool that the car has improved since I got it last year without any cost or effort on my part. Wife’s f31 330 is exactly as it was at delivery (except maybe maps are out of date now)

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

Im in the same boat and you're exactly on point with your concerns. Im going to miss the F80 and honestly I would never get rid of it but its a lease which ends in December. The buy out is way to high and my only option is a m340 in December. After driving a m340 my decision was very easy and I leased the M3p. At the end of the day the Tesla does everything I want and more and the only disadvantage will be losing is the ability to pull like a freight train after 100 mph. 90% of my commute is the highway and that is where most of my 60-130 friendly races do happen. ( I will miss this very much).

If your M3 was paid off and worth about 45k would you still get rid of it for the tesla ?

[doberzus]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Hey all, software 2019.36 installed on my car last night and I wanted to mention that the “5% power increase” is noticeable from a dig, especially around 40-60 mph

My best unscientific description is that it’s like the increase in power you get from when your battery goes from 70% to 90%

I’m sure others will start to do some 60-130 pulls. It isn’t easy for me with the traffic patterns here in NorCal.

The other features (automatic navigation, schedule departure) aren’t super exciting. The “one pedal driving” mode is interesting and I’m trying it out, but my initially impression is that I prefer the “roll” option that was the previous default choice (especially for repositioning my car on my slightly sloped driveway)

Pretty cool that the car has improved since I got it last year without any cost or effort on my part. Wife’s f31 330 is exactly as it was at delivery (except maybe maps are out of date now)

Good to hear it's actually faster. I still have not gotten my update..

My buddy updated his M3P with 2019.36.2.1 and is now 1/10th faster to 60MPH and picked up 1.5MPH traps in the 1/4 mile. His results below using Dragy. 86-88% SOC

Pre 2nd 5% update:
1/4 - 11.71@114.60
0-60 -3.36 (3.17 W rollout)

Post 2nd 5% update:
1/4 - 11.59@116.0
0-60 - 3.22 (3.0 W rollout)

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by doberzus

Good to hear it's actually faster. I still have not gotten my update..

My buddy updated his M3P with 2019.36.2.1 and is now 1/10th faster to 60MPH and picked up 1.5MPH traps in the 1/4 mile. His results below using Dragy. 86-88% SOC

Pre 2nd 5% update:
1/4 - 11.71@114.60
0-60 -3.36 (3.17 W rollout)

Post 2nd 5% update:
1/4 - 11.59@116.0
0-60 - 3.22 (3.0 W rollout)

Getting software a few days earlier is part of the FSD vaporware purchase, lol

I’ll try to borrow an aim solo dl to get some times for my car.

[SflBimmer8484]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

If your M3 was paid off and worth about 45k would you still get rid of it for the tesla ?

In warranty or out of warranty ? Buy out is 43k+ tax and I have 39k on it.


Honestly I want both but every time I hit traffic I wish I had the Tesla and every time a lambo or Porsche turbo rolls up next to me im glad im in the m3.

The m3 turns heads everywhere I go and the tesla wont. I really wont have a true answer until I get it and live with it.

[ZCD1]

My car was updated this evening. Looking forward to experiencing the improved performance and full one-pedal driving tomorrow!

[doberzus]

Just did some 0-60MPH testing using Dragy. SOC was 85-86%, battery was still not fully warmed up (4 dots), I am a 230lb driver. Bone stock Model 3 Performance with stock 20”s on standard summer tires.

Literally back to back runs within 30 seconds of one another. Just mashing the throttle. Got a 3.21 and 3.25 true 0-60s withOUT using a 1FT Rollout. Got a 3.03 and 3.04 using the 1FT Rollout. The pull is even more ridiculous.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by doberzus

...The pull is even more ridiculous...

I can confirm that this is true, and the difference is even more obvious above about 50 mph. 👍🏻

[Salespunk]

Current F90 owner and previous F82 and E90 M3 owner. Had a Tesla Model S for the weekend and just don't get the hype. Totally uninspiring to drive and the interior felt really low rent/cheap. I do think the Model 3 or any Tesla is a great driving appliance to get from point A to point B with minimal driving involvement and maximum efficiency.

I will most likely get a Model 3 as a commuter and replace my M5 with something more focused on enjoyment instead of the compromises to be a daily driver.

[doberzus]

Originally Posted by Salespunk

I will most likely get a Model 3 as a commuter and replace my M5 with something more focused on enjoyment instead of the compromises to be a daily driver.

You ready for your commuter car to be faster than your M5?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Salespunk

. Had a Tesla Model S for the weekend and just don't get the hype. .

Did you drive the P100DL model? Or one of the non performance models?

doberzus is that post 2019.36 update?