We Talk M3 / M4 Nurburgring Time, Electric Steering & Other Tech Highlights w/ BMW M

[rave426]

Originally Posted by The Fatal Gamer

I wish we could clarify what their lap time was in nurburgring exactly. Did they use MT or DCT?

The question is, how much of that 10 seconds is due to CCBs? Also, when comparing it to the M3, are they simply comparing it to the 2007 model's official time (probably) or the latest 2013 model with the competition package? The reality is, I suspect at least half of that 10 seconds is due to the CCBs and the gap would be a lot less if the current M3 had something as simple as brembo brakes.

Lastly, the lap time improvement between a E46 M3 and a ZCP E92 M3 is more like 20 seconds, which was a huge improvement that can be felt by the average driver in daily driving.

If you did an apples to apples comparison (standard brakes, both DCT, regular options such as sunroof, etc), and put a regular driver in the seat, I highly doubt you will see a full 10 seconds of difference.

SportAuto tested the E92 at about 17 seconds faster. The E92 is significantly more powerful and had superior tire technology. They said more than 10 seconds faster so we'll see.

The F80 offers only a bit more power, but drops some pounds. CCB is NOT going to make a difference of 10 seconds. Tire choice can...one lap of brake use...No.

[phrozen06]

I'm glad he said "We've never been the king of traffic lights." Why are we so caught up in that Dogma?

[Chill72]

Originally Posted by The Fatal Gamer

I wish we could clarify what their lap time was in nurburgring exactly. Did they use MT or DCT?

The question is, how much of that 10 seconds is due to CCBs? Also, when comparing it to the M3, are they simply comparing it to the 2007 model's official time (probably) or the latest 2013 model with the competition package? The reality is, I suspect at least half of that 10 seconds is due to the CCBs and the gap would be a lot less if the current M3 had something as simple as brembo brakes.

Lastly, the lap time improvement between a E46 M3 and a ZCP E92 M3 is more like 20 seconds, which was a huge improvement that can be felt by the average driver in daily driving.

If you did an apples to apples comparison (standard brakes, both DCT, regular options such as sunroof, etc), and put a regular driver in the seat, I highly doubt you will see a full 10 seconds of difference.

Hey guy, I'm not sure we're reading the same thing. The point clearly states M3/4 is faster by MORE THAN 10 SEC. which could be anywhere from 11 to infinity seconds difference.

Now slow your roll.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Chill72

Hey guy, I'm not sure we're reading the same things. The point clearly states M3/4 is faster by MORE THAN 10 SEC. which could be anywhere from 11 to who knows 60 seconds difference.

Now slow your roll.

he cant, he is all aboard the f80 m3 hate train, and there is no stopping him

chugga chugga chooo chooo

[Ghetto2315]

Anybody tell me why the Automatic rev matching on the manual transmission is disabled in Sport+ mode but active in the Sport and Comfort modes? What's the reasoning behind that??

[Beck]

Originally Posted by Ghetto2315

Anybody tell me why the Automatic rev matching on the manual transmission is disabled in Sport+ mode but active in the Sport and Comfort modes? What's the reasoning behind that??

So anyone driving on a track or aggressively anywhere else can have a mode where they themselves can heel-toe rev match instead of having it done automatically.

I'm glad you can disable it. It'd be terrible if it was always on and couldn't be turned off.

[Judah]

Originally Posted by ACE_M3

I bet that xdrive will be an option on the next generation M5/6 and probably M3/4 too, like it is on the new generation AMG models.

Right now these executives can't say anything positive about AWD for these cars because BMW M don't currently offer it and they don't want to lose sales to competitors. Lots of AMG clients are opting for AWD, BMW M will follow with optional xdrive. It won't be the first time that BMW M offer something that they said they wouldn't.

Actually, BMW M has already previously publicly stated the xdrive system will most likely be added to the M5 and M6,(also M7, as that looks to be on for the next generation) as optional and not the M3/4 which is what the Q and A is about.

Also correct me if I'm wrong,(I know someone will) but the awd for AMG is no longer an option in the US, it's standard on the E class up,(excluding the SL/SLS class of course).

[StealYourFace]

The car sounds very exciting, I think they are underestimating how quick the car is around the Ring for these reasons:
1. Torque- this car has to explode out of corners
2. Less weight with bigger brakes
3. Larger tires, and 7 years of tire tech

[Ali.K_BMW]

awesome!

[jbockrd]

Originally Posted by ///M235i

So if the f80 is already TEN WHOLE FRICKIN' SECONDS faster around the n-ring than the e90? ... and the added weight from an xDrive will make it only 5 seconds faster instead of 10? That is not a bad compromise at all. And the xDrive will likely make up for some of the added weight in part due to quicker launches and corner exits. Do it BMW. Do it. xDrive M cars please!



.

I owned an x drive 335 and hated it!!! I went back to an e46 330ci for better feel. Now I have an e92 M and never would do xdrive again!!!

[jbockrd]

Those questions and answers make me confident I am buying the right car. I love BMWs and how they feel to me. Theses execs understand that feel. It isn't only about money, it's pride in the product. I also like how they positioned the M235 as a "beginner" M car that people will move up and want a "real one" one day to avoid overlap. WELL DONE BMW!!!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Interesting about the MT vs DCT weight difference. I thought that difference was about 50 lbs. for the E9x M3 as well. With the MT dropping weight and the difference staying about the same (assuming I am remembering correctly), I suppose we can conclude that the DCT has lost weight also?

I can only assume this is a typo. In the other threads, the weight difference was listed as 40kg (88lb) on the DIN weight for both the M3 and M4.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...34&postcount=1

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by Jason

How do you view your competitors?

For us there are basically two groups of competitors - first one in terms of driving dynamics and overall conceptual spirit is Porsche. They are closest to us in terms of brand DNA and aspirations, driving experience, agility and precision.

Then there are competitors the likes of AMG of Mercedes and RS of Audi. The S models from Audi are considered competitors of our M Performance Models, so the M235i for example would compete against an S model from Audi if they had a two-door. The Audi TT-S is probably what comes closest to it. Compared to AMG and RS models, BMW has been in a very strong position, even though sometimes it depends on which stage of the life cycle our products are in. Over an entire life cycle, the M3 is number in its segment, the M5 is number one in its segment and the X5 M and X6 M are the most successful cars in their segment.

They better think about adding the Corvette to that list now. In the past you could get away with excluding it, but not anymore! Probably purposeful they excluded it.

[JustChris]

Thanks for this Jason, really good read. Just what I had expected and hoped from the spec's its all about steering feel, weight reduction.

Oddly I re-read the statement about the M3 'naturally' being more aerodynamic than the M4.

[ixse]

lol hilarious. e9x fanboys at first said "bet it wont be that much quicker due to rpm limit and not much weight diff". now they still say "its mostly due to ccb, 10sec isnt as good". sigh.. when will you stop lol
they said LEAST 10sec faster, and lap times become much harder to shorten as times drop. just like how going from 200mph to 205mph is much harder than 180mph to 200mph. this car will eat e9x alive for breakfast even with normal steel brakes.

[OSAB1]

If the car goes under 7:40 I will never say another bad word about it.

[dmboone25]

Did they "hint" at the M2 at all? I ask because I thought it was interesting the way that they said the plan was to use a M235 to move people into the proper M3/M4.

[Jarhead]

Originally Posted by Beck

So anyone driving on a track or aggressively anywhere else can have a mode where they themselves can heel-toe rev match instead of having it done automatically.

I'm glad you can disable it. It'd be terrible if it was always on and couldn't be turned off.

Do we know if there is any way to turn it off in comfort or sport?? This would be a deal breaker for me. I really enjoy doing this myself and don't want to go DCT just yet. I also don't want to be in sport + during casual driving.

[rave426]

Originally Posted by OSAB1

If the car goes under 7:40 I will never say another bad word about it.

It wont and I think that's asking too much to ask for this car's purpose. Its a true 4 passenger sports GT car for $64k. Heck...look at the Cayman S.

[jbockrd]

Originally Posted by Brosef

did you really just ask that question?

also, if they're just gonna mimic their competitors, that's one less thing that makes the car stand out. I, for one, love the fact that it's RWD and wouldn't buy one if it were AWD.

Originally Posted by rave426

Dafuq. You both deserve an infraction for this.

And that's why the guy who bought his RS 5 aka "the yacht master" made the comment about AWD. But it's a shame he isn't on the Audi sites talking to his own people. If I got robbed spending that much money on a super heavy automatic transmission car, I'd go find comfort in my own cult!! LOL

[nick3753]

Originally Posted by Chill72

Hey guy, I'm not sure we're reading the same thing. The point clearly states M3/4 is faster by MORE THAN 10 SEC. which could be anywhere from 11 to infinity seconds difference.

Now slow your roll.

Actually between 10 sec and 485 seconds, since this ain't no time machine.

[jbockrd]

Originally Posted by Jarhead

Do we know if there is any way to turn it off in comfort or sport?? This would be a deal breaker for me. I really enjoy doing this myself and don't want to go DCT just yet. I also don't want to be in sport + during casual driving.

I drive in sport + mode all the time and don't find it too jarring. Don't let it be a dealbreaker.